Darrenroberts
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Posts posted by Darrenroberts
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1 hour ago, Steve Priest said:
That sounds ok to me, my porthole is centred at 43 1/2” from the back bulkhead.
prefect cheers mate thanks again for all your help
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On 09/08/2023 at 19:07, Steve Priest said:
My measurements were taken from the back edge of the bulkhead, i.e. the back of the doors when closed
sorry yeh back bullhead...... I've marked everything up now and its looking/ feeling right. The only bit iam worried about now is the cabin porthole positioning. So far I've got these measurements..
gunnel top to porthole center at 16 3/4 (same as the engine ole)
handrail top edge to porthole center at 19"
rear bulkhead to porthole center at 46 1/2"
engine ole bulkhead to porthole center at 52"
(cabin hight from gunnel to handrail top is 39" at rear bulkhead)
Dose that sound there or there abuts to you ?
Cheers
Darren
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2 hours ago, Steve Priest said:
The following measurements are from my own little Woolwich, and were from measuring mainly waterways cabins over the years. There is a bit of latitude on these, they weren’t all the same, but this is what I ended up using.
Measured from the back bulkhead forward to the centreline of each.
Chimney collar 25”
Bull’s eye. 49”
Mushroom v. 88”
Letterbox vent ( again to the centre ) 23 1/4”, with the top edge 6 3/4 below the top of the handrail and parallel to it
Slide hole (aperture size, so measured to the back of the timber facing, to the edge of the runner itself)
width at bulkhead 20 1/2”, width at front 19 3/4” depth 22”
Is your cabin fitted out? If so, you will need to bear that in mind, especially if the internal proportions are not standard, such as if the bed has been made wider than normal at the expense of the range shelf.
Woolwich boats had 5 1/2” fabricated chimney collars, made from a piece of around 5mm plate and a piece of tube 5 1/2” o.d., and the space between the handrail and slide runner is fairly tight on motor boats. For my money I would certainly taper the slide, besides it will allow a little more space for the chimney collar. Even with steel slide runners, I would fit a wooden slide, steel ones are too heavy and clumsy I find. If you do need to put it a little further forwards, make sure that the front bolt is clear of the rear table bulkhead, especially if the range shelf is not as long as it should be.
The bull’s eye the dimension I have given will mean that it is well clear of the bed, the cabin frame, and valance. If the bed is wider than the standard 39” you may have to move it back a bit, but if you move it back too far then the slide will clobber it when fully open
Hi there Steve this is brilliant information, thank you. I've just cross referenced you positions with the drawing I've been working on and there nearly bang on. Roger Farrington is currently fabricating the cabin steel work using the timber cabin measurements of Aldgate. The old cabin was to far gone to be saved not to mention totally out in a lot of critical areas, so it made more sense to start again. I've been measuring back from the rear bulkhead rivets too, are you measurements from the centers of those or the rear most edge?
I removed the old boatman's cabin (as apposed to smashing it out) just to make my life easier when constructing the new one as I hope I can use some of the sections to template off or at least make scribing quicker. Internally I have a blank canvas at this stage. I fully intend to construct the new boatman's as close to how the original would have been as I can, including tapering bed "ole" my cabin drawings specify the range shelf dimensions to accommodate a 24" range, off the top of my head (ill have to double check that)
I am defiantly committed tapered hatch as well after chalking up the collar position.
Thanks again for you measurements, That's really helpful and perfect timing as iam hoping to mark the final positions for cutting out tomorrow morning.
Cheers, Darren
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Hi guys, I was wondering if any one out there could help me with some key measurements for Bristol's new back cabin. I am looking for specs for the positioning of the following parts;
Bulls eye
mushroom vent
chimney coller
letter box vents.
hatch lid length and width
The new hatch will be a steel construction, am unsure yet about replicating the tapered fit but a rough length would be great.
Any help with the above would be greatly appreciated
Thanks
Darren
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Thanks for all the responses guys this is really useful for me. cheers
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Hi guys, dose any one know where I could get hold of some boatman's cabin drawings for a big Woolwich motor? the Laurence Hogg website doesn't appear to work any more. thanks in advance
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cheers for the feed back guys, i've submitted a application covering all the points discussed here followed by some photographs..... ill wait and see but its safe to say its a long shot at best..... ill keep you posted
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yeh they get very fussy re aesthetics these days. it seams totally acceptable for a major rebuild along as you leave the hold open lol. i would of thought u being full length that would easily qualify. Iam enquiring only because my insurance company are really laying it on thick this year as my boats turning 125 year old so iam paying above odds for invasive tests every 5 mins but she's not recognized by the trust which is funny. Iam curious which old boats out there make the cut.....post cut haha
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Hi guys am on a bit of a long shot mission here but...... hey times are tough. Dose any one own or formally owned a bcn day boat, motorized or shorted, that benefited from the CRTs historic discount license? I Know there criteria is very fussy re cabin extensions. Any feed back would be great thanks.
Darren
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1 hour ago, blackrose said:
I think I'd spray some foam into the gaps and then once it's cured and cut back seal over it with some PU sealant (CT1, Stixall, etc) rather than flimsy silicone.
Go easy with the sprayfoam though - the fire rated stuff tends not to expand so much and is more controllable. Either mask off what you don't want the foam to stick to or smear a thin layer of Vaseline over it first. Spraying a fine water mist into the gap will help the foam to stick.
Cheers black rose, av got two more portholes to install then I’ll foam all 4 in the same hit, just in case the tube gunks up. I’ll post the results shortly 👍🏻
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10 hours ago, Sir Percy said:
The Soudal foam that you're referring to ('Genius' - isn't that the name of the gun system?) appears to be 'resistant to water', according to their website.
Having just used an expanding foam (a different Soudal product), I think that you'll definitely be better off with a gun rather than a tube applicator. You'll likely need to modulate the flow in order to get it to fill the gap and not just shoot down to the bottom of the void. Not sure how you'd tackle the top of the porthole, though. May be tricky.
Hi there, no it’s not the gun system it comes with a long tube attached av add a bit of a practice and it’s not to hard to build it up in thin layers but you do have to be carful not to blast to much in at once. Oh and it’s definitely worth masking off well too.
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13 hours ago, David Mack said:
The condensation issue won't occur just around the portholes. Your wooden cabin is slightly permeable to water vapour, so over time moisture from cooking, washing drying, occupants breathing out etc. will permeate the wooden cabin and then condense out on the cold steel cabin shell.
I guess that’s why there is a layer of roofing felt in between the two layers? Well the cabin has been like that since the 80s and looks fine when I took a section of it out to have a look
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Just now, Tracy D'arth said:
There are other brands available, possibly with better data also. From my experience, the ones used for building like fixing windows are closed cell.
Ok great thanks I’ll continue researching To see if any of the others have better data sheets 👍🏻
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42 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:
What does it say on the can? Screwfix will tell you if its closed cell or not, it should be closed cell that you use. What is the rest of your insulation?
Hi there the top half (gunnel to roof) has no insulation. It’s a 25mm tongue and groove cabin with some sort of ash felt wrap and then the steel cabin wrapped over the top. Screwfix sent been very helpful, and the technical sheet from soudal dosnt say open or closed. Only info is used for sound and thermal insulation plus gap filling.
7 minutes ago, BEngo said:Even closed cell foam is not really the right stuff in that location. The sunlight will degrade the foam and it will break up to powder fairly soon. It looks like an ideal opportunity for some silicone sealant. The gap needs to be over 3 mm up to about 13 mm.
Something from the Dow Corming range - perhaps 781 - will do it. Available in several colours.
N
The sunlight shouldn’t be a problem as I’ll slot in a porthole liner effectively seeking the foam in darkness between the wood and steel. I just really want to make sure no condensation will form down there as it will be trapped. I’ll check if the silicone tho thanks.
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Hi guys u have a small gap all the way around my portholes where, by way of construction the steel cabin has been welded over the top of a timber cabin. Iam concerned about winter condensation running down the inside of the cabin sides and collecting on the gunnel between the wood and the steel. I want to insulate the porthole gap with a small amount spray foam and was wondering if SOUDAL GENIUS INSULATION FOAM from Screwfix would be suitable? Anybody used this stuff before? It’s says it’s useful for sound and thermal insulation, but I remember reading some where that boat spray foams need to be closed cell? Any help would be great thanks
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Just now, David Mack said:
The same can be said of a few well turned out boaters from the 80s/90s....
?
?
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On 31/08/2020 at 17:57, Heartland said:
The BCN website does have a list of the first gaugings made of many BCN craft, day boats or cabin craft. The term often applied to a day boat was either open iron or open wood. These craft may operate along the BCN or adjacent waterways. They were used to carry a variety if cargoes, but coal was a common example, although there could also be limestone, ironstone, slag, stone, rubbish and waste. The term day boat was used as those that worked it, lived on land and worked the boat with a horse, a pair of donkeys or maybe a mule. It was a trade established with the making of the canal, when the BCN was originally unconnected to other waterways and long before either the indexing system was set up and even longer before the first gauging tables were compiled.
Open iron or open wood boats were not unique to the BCN, but there were a lot of them there employed on the short journeys they regularly made.
Those made of wood had a finite life as the hardships of daily working took a toll on the boat structure and boat yards made a living repairing them or making them. The iron boats had a longer existence and some were reconstructed for boaters use. This site regularly comments on the fate of such boats once they have been cut into two for leisure use, However once that has been done, I personally believe that is the end of their history.
So when a boat passes on the canal the hull may be part of a former BCN day boat, an ice breaker, a butty or a former motor boat and without a gauging plate, it is often difficult to work out origins, And, again there are people on this site who can. It is also still possible to find complete day boats around at places like the Black Country Museum, used as river landing stages or buried in some filled in arm
It is a complex subject.
Is the mark the visual pastiche of what it used to look like? I don’t see how altering or reducing a Boats length would mean it’s history has now ended, as it still exists. What happens to those vessels that get cut in half, made into two then get put back together or lengthend again using sympathetic techniques....dose said boat come back to life in terms of the history books? ??♂️...... or maybe i have a chip as I don’t know where the back of my boat is ?
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1 minute ago, David Mack said:
Late 80s is over 30 years ago. Back then Ely was less than 30 years old, it is now twice that age. Wooden boats weren't even expected to last more than 30 years. Ely may be a bit down at heel, but is still a 'blank canvas' for someone to take forward.
I mean, I’ve seen a few well turned boats in images from the 80s/90s that are in stark contrast to how they are at present. I know 30 years is a significant amount of time but you would have thought at least some one at some point during that time might of had a quick whip round with a paint brush ?
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21 hours ago, Tim Lewis said:
Bingo that’s what I was after, thanks Tim ?
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14 minutes ago, Derek R. said:
Looked a bit better in the late eighties:
It’s crazzy how Boats deteriorate that badly in a relatively short space of time
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3 minutes ago, Derek R. said:
Have a rummage around the BCN Society's web pages, but there's not much about the boats specific to the BCN.
In truth, you are in the best place here on the CWDF historic & heritage pages - questions asked can usually be answered by someone on here.
Cheers Derek, yeh I didn’t find the BCN society website very useful. And the small day boat section of hnbc is pretty much the only photographic reference I’ve come across in one place. There has been verious discussions come up on here about specific BCN boats, but I thought it may be useful if eaither owners or other interested party’s began a discusssion in one place just like the historic boats for sale thread. There are loads out there but they seam to get over looked some what (Maybe due to lack of ID) but from my own experience I always get questions asked by passing boats almost in a daily basis and I don’t really have anything else to say other than, yeh she’s old ?
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Hi all is there a thread specifically for BCN day boats/ joeys/ unknown but defiantly old Boats? I see a lot of the history threads discussing and celebrating the gauged, photograph and generally well documented motors and buttys out there ( and rightly so) but is there a specific place dedicated to the old gals still out there on the network.....in what ever form??
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3 hours ago, billybobbooth said:
I didnt think it would be long, nearly most wooden boats under 10k will be back on sale quickly. To be fair she has been docked by looks and is at least afloat unlike when sold
The only one was Kent which sold cheap but had been rebuild mostly, but that went cheap due to engine dead which turned out not to be i did look but was told towy would have to go and I had only just bought her
Towy for Conway ? no chance
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Thanks for all the intel guys, iam als hearing reports of higher traffic and an impending water shortage down that way too ? all in all sounds like a risky trip to say the least, gunna head out to kings Langley and get some eyes on what’s going on there. Thanks again ?
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Historic Boats for sale online
in History & Heritage
Posted
the wooden top didn't look bad when it was on slip a few weeks ago bit of patching in round the gunnel maybe..... nice boat tho