Froggy
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Posts posted by Froggy
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3 minutes ago, rgreg said:
Interestingly, we had a GG7000 oven which developed the opposite problem to yours: the burner ran on full blast constantly so the oven just got hotter regardless of the setting on the control knob. Suspecting a faulty thermostat, like you we discovered the outrageously high cost of one so decided it wasn't a sufficiently big enough problem to justify it's replacement, so we just lived with it.
We can actually cook on hours (although not sure i would chance it with raw meat or fish), you simply allow 4x the stated cooking time and the food is hot and cooked through. 2-3 hours is a long time when you're hungry though! We've lived with this for best part of a year, although my other half is a very keen cook and would love to replace the cooker if we had the money to spare. However, the grill thermocouple has only just exhibited a fault. This would be really annoying if you couldn't keep the flame alive especially as, given the fault with the thermostat, the grill gets used more than it otherwise would. An obvious temporary bodge would be to tape the control knob in the pushed-in position and just keep an eye on it in case the flame cuts out, but it's asking for trouble in the longer term.
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29 minutes ago, gbclive said:
Thanks - I’ve tried but it’s incredibly resistant to my efforts so far.
I do have some of that SSR so I’ll try it if I ever manage to remove the top layer - don’t want to de-bling my only bit of bling by scratching it
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13 minutes ago, David Mack said:
907 and 908 are the thermocouples, and the diagram shows how they are connected to the grill tap (891) and oven thermostat (912). But the 907/908 numbering seems to be swapped between the parts list and the diagram.
Although yours is a different model, I would expect the general arrangement to be similar.
I recently had to partially dismantle the cooker on Fulbourne, and to reach the grill tap and thermostat required: first, removal of the knobs, then undoing the screws concealed beneath a couple of the knobs allowed the fascia panel to be removed, and that in turn revealed screws holding the hob panel down. All pretty straightforward.
Ah, so what you seem to be implying is that i could remove the hob top panel (without disturbing the hob burners) and that this would give me access to the top of the oven assembly including the control valves? And if, as the .pdf diagram suggests, the oven thermostat is directly connected to the oven control knob (presumably the oven valve is part of the thermostat assembly) then this is also accessible (even though i wouldn't replace this myself if it is directly connected to the gas supply). Incidentally, the .pdf document is the correct document for our model, which is why i posted it.
4 minutes ago, WotEver said:See David’s post. He explains it better than I did.
I have no idea about your insurance policy but if you don’t feel confident to change the thermocouple then don’t.
Or indeed 907 screws into 891, which is the grill control valve.
I would be confident enough to replace the thermocouple and any other part as long as it didn't involve dismantling the gas supply line at any point. I would expect that insurance companies would have a problem with any work done on a gas system not undertaken by a qualified gas engineer.
Regarding the exploded diagram, you might also have noticed that some of the parts, such as 114 and 878, aren't even listed in the table.
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12 minutes ago, WotEver said:
A thermocouple has the end that pokes into the flame, and a ‘tube’ running from the back of it. At the end of the tube is a fattened out bit with a captive nut. This end connects to the valve. If wiggling it makes it work then either the nut is loose or there’s a break within the tube bit. If it’s loose, tighten it. If the fault is internal, replace it
Ok, thanks, this is a big help, but i don't think i can get to the other end without removing the oven from its housing. Wouldn't i have to disconnect both the grill and oven gas supply pipes to do this? It's something i wouldn't be prepared to do since it would surely invalidate our insurance policy.
I'm sure you're on to the source of the problem though, because i noticed that the flame also cuts out if, once alight, you push the control knob in again and release it abruptly.
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57 minutes ago, gbclive said:
To be honest as the tube is realy quite narrow and my Screwfix antifreeze is clear, it’s not easy to see the level even before the inevitable staining. I have to shine a torch at just the right angle to pick out the meniscus. Perhaps a suitable dye would help?
Ah, a new word for the day!
41 minutes ago, gbclive said:Thank you - a brilliant and simple idea
(However my TEM (threat error management) training has kicked in - what if the coolant level was ever to get low enough that the bead was able to start circulating until it came to a critical restriction?)
Lateral thinking. Always best to look for worst case scenarios imo. Sods Law has a habit of creeping up on you when you've got your head turned the other way enjoying the tranquility of the moment!
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28 minutes ago, gbclive said:
I’ve just had to replace a similar header tank for the Webasto CH system.
The lower spigot had cracked where it met the body.
I splashed out on one of these from A. H. Fabrications - reused the original cap (not supplied) after painting it.
Overflow is now connected.
The only problem I've had is trying to removing the pesky impervious plastic label - probably designed to make this impossible
Blowtorch perhaps?
So I now have a “bling” - Mark99 will be proud of me
It's amazing how popular these BMC units seem to have been with boat fitters. Seeing yours makes me slightly more confident that our boat's fitters were at least bodging with some knowledge!
That label looks ok to me, but if you can remove the top layer of it and then gently scrape the layer underneath to break it down a bit, some sticky stuff remover might finish it off.
19 minutes ago, bizzard said:If there is rusty water circulating in the system the plastic header tanks and a plastic sight tubes inner surfaces will soon become stained rust coloured iand the level might not be discernable after a while.
Well i'm going to bask in the glow of (relative) newness for the time being, Bizzard.
No doubt there is rust lurking, because when we checked for antifreeze in the middle of winter shortly after buying the boat there wasn't any!
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3 minutes ago, WotEver said:
You’ll just be pushing it more into the flame.
Ok, my bad, and i've now edited post #15 to avoid this confusion. The thermocouple is secure at the burner end and doesn't seem to move at all. However, the rod then extends several inches and disappears through a hole in the metal top panel of the grill (part 591 in the exploded diagram in the .pdf). It's at this point, a few inches away from the burner, that it disappears into the metal top panel through a small hole and then out of sight so that, even when shining a torch through a gap, you can't see the far end, but presumably it connects to something? It's also at this point, if the rod is disturbed just slightly before it enters the hole, that the flame cuts out.
Incidentally, there appears to be an error in the annotation of that exploded diagram. It states the grill thermocouple fitting into the thermostat housing rather than the oven thermocouple (i.e. part numbers 908 and 912).
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1 minute ago, bizzard said:
Ok. So the hob is a separate unit on its own. The Vanette is just an oven and grill. Does the Vanette have electronic igniters ? If so its probably very similar to the PDF diagram. If so, you can see the jet nozzles sticking out of the oven and grill controls, the oven one has the thermostat on it. The burners in the exploded view fit over them. They seen to call the jets, injectors.
No, interestingly enough the hob looks set up for electonic ignition but has to be lit be a taper or similar (and the boat manual implies that this was the procedure when originally fitted rather than something having subsequently failed). The oven and grill are lit likewise. This .pdf document is specific to the exact model we have (GG7000).
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55 minutes ago, WotEver said:
A thermocouple is usually dead easy to replace. A nut at the far end connects it to the valve and that’s it.
Yes, but then what about the other end? It disappears into the body of the metal grill top panel (part 591 in the .pdf document). Shining a torch through the gap i can't see the far end of it to see where it connects. This looks inaccessible without removing the entire grill/oven unit out to gain access to the top of it. Have you any idea how this might have failed, when a slight sideways movement of the unit just before it enters the hole through the metal panel determines whether or not the flame remains lit when the control knob is released. It's almost as if it is making contact with something behind the panel. It certainly seems securely fixed at the burner end.
I guess i need a bit of a crash course in the mechanics of gas stoves!
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5 minutes ago, bizzard said:
That PDF seems to be just an oven and grill unit only, no top hob burners. Is that what you have ?
No, we also have a hob above these, but a different model number so it would have been supplied separately. The hob is fitted into the worktop counter directly above the oven/grill unit. The hob is at the moment working well. When we got the boat most of the knobs were a bit sticky with gunge so didn't spring up properly and lock in the off position, but a little bit of WD40, carefully applied, sorted this.
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4 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:
You need a bit of pipe on the overflow now
Agreed. I was just thinking that when i looked at the photo after posting. That should be a relatively simple affair! I'll have a root around and see if i can find some old brake hose or something. I seem to spend half my life tinkering with the boat these days!
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An update to this thread. Here's our replacement header tank in situ. Once again, many thanks to Ray T for the very generous supply of this. It's nice to be able to see the water level without taking the cap off (see pic of our original in the top post), and not have to worry about the bodged Araldite repairs failing! After consultation with a marine engineer, rather than drill an additional hole for the extra pipe these were joined with a T-connector, as in the photograph. I can't imagine why this solution wasn't adopted from the start rather than drill a hole into a plastic body that was always then going to be a weak point for leakage.
Thanks to everybody who contributed to this thread with their advice and offers.
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2 minutes ago, WotEver said:
The gas pipe connects (via the control valve) to the jet. The burner sits on top of the jet. The gas comes out of the jet then through the holes in the burner.
Ok, thanks, i'll have a closer look and see if i can remove it, this will certainly allow me to clean it properly and also get access to the jet. If all that fails then i guess it's down to the thermostat. I'm guessing that the thermostat and thermocouple are connected to the jet and shouldn't be removed without the necessary skills?
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1 hour ago, bizzard said:
I'm not conversant with the Vanette but they're all similar. The burners should just lift out, may be held down with a spring clip or something. They should then just pull back an inch or so and lift out, You can clean them properly then and poke the holes and empty out rust and muck. Having removed them the tiny gas jets will be revealed. I poke a tiny weeny watch makers drill bit in and out of them to clear them, also a wire brush bristle usually will do the job. The oven and grill burners are usually like this. The top ring burners and jets should be similar but might be simpler, like a hob the circular burners might just lift off revealing the jets sticking up in the middle. The jets will usually unscrew to remove them for cleaning but not always. Be careful and gentle if moving the thermo-couples.
You obviously know what you're talking about, Bizzard, but i don't fully understand. If the burner assembly can be lifted out, how does it connect to the gas supply pipe? Also, with regard to the thermocouple, why is it so important to be gentle with them? Again, i don't fully understand how these work; my guess would be that, at the burner end, the heat of the flame completes a circuit inside. This, however, would not explain why the grill thermocouple cuts the flame out if it is moved much further along the assembly just before it disappears through a hole in the cooker panel and on to the grill burner.
Again, with regard to thermostats, what is the most likely cause of a failure with these? Is it a mechanical failure within the mechanism?
With regard to service manuals, no search on the Web has come up with anything better than this, which is at least a start:
https://www.leisurespares.co.uk/files/059042727_vanette_gg7000(0000i).pdf -
Budget Chandlery my arse. A grill pan at £91?!!!
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5 hours ago, Rebotco said:
Yes, that was my first thought too. I had a similar problem on the hob burners recently. This was quickly rectified by cleaning out the burner nozzles with a wire brush and soapy water. And best of all, it cost nothing!
3 hours ago, bizzard said:Yes, those and I meant the actual gas jets too.
There was certainly plenty of gloop on the burner assembly at the back of the oven and we cleaned the holes as best we could with a toothbrush and soapy water in great anticipation of an improvement, but none was to be seen. I'm not sure where the gas jet is in relation to this, is it part of the thermostat housing? The flame seems to feed into the burner assembly from the left, which would indicate that the jet is there, but i don't think it's very accessible without dismantling.
I think with regard to the grill thermocouple though, the flame dies if this is moved a mere millimetre or two, which would suggest to me some sort of mechanical failure.
It would be great to get hold of a service manual for this model, just to get an idea of the work involved in replacing these parts.
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40 minutes ago, David Mack said:
I suspect you only need to replace the thermocouple, not the full thermostat assembly. Generic thermocouples should be available for little money.
ETA http://www.leisureshopdirect.com would appear to have oven and grill thermocouples in stock for £20 ish.
Probably the thermocouple for the grill, but are you saying that the symptoms i describe suggest the thermocouple for the oven as well? My understanding would be that it's the thermostat at fault here, since the oven fires up but doesn't reach full operating temperature. I've now found thermostats for the oven at about £140 and the thermocouples for both the oven and grill are in fact very cheap at around £10 on a different site, but it looks as though substantial dismantling of the oven is required and probably not something to do for someone with no training on gas appliances? At about £160 for thermostat and both thermocouples i would consider getting a skilled gas engineer to install at a later date, but money is too tight just now. And then, where do you begin and end, perhaps the oven burner assembly needs replacing too, and then it's getting on for about half the price of a new cooker.....
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Well, our Stoves Vanette CG7000 is falling apart, and we can't afford to replace it. It was original equipment on the boat, which makes it 21 years old. A few months after we took possession in November 2016 we noticed that the oven wasn't cooking food in anywhere near the expected time. Investigation showed that the flame didn't get any higher regardless of the control knob setting, suggesting the thermostat had failed. We've learned to live with that - you just have to allow approximately 4x the stated cooking time because it seems stuck on low setting, which means planning two or more hours in advance if you want to cook a pie or something.
Yesterday though, i had trouble keeping the grill alight, the flame died as soon as i released the knob. A bit of manipulation with the thermocouple suggests this is the fault because after a little bit of gentle pushing and poking i got the thing working again - but if it is disturbed the flame dies. I looked around the internet last year and could find little in the way of spare parts for this cooker, and the one oven thermostat i found was several hundred £. Does anybody know where parts for this model can still be sourced, and also of any documentation in the way of maintenance manuals anywhere around the Web?
EDIT: the relevant model is possibly a GG7000, because this is all i can find on the Web, which means the original fitters misprinted this in the boat manual.
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Just now, rusty69 said:
Who said she was Irish
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1 minute ago, rusty69 said:
Oh.It that case, I never talk cr@p. Our parmax is currently on 2.5 years so far(I hope thats wot I said in the other thread), so I am happy with that.
I don't dare look.
Will maybe let you know how i get on with it on the other thread. I'm signing off for the time being because after making a serious point this thread has become far too silly and i have other stuff to do. -
16 minutes ago, rusty69 said:
I talk cr@p on most of the threads! Just ask Dr Bob,
Wot party? I thought it was a surprise. Like you're recruiting effort though. I can see Froggy fitting in well there
I hope not - i've just bought a Parmax 2.9 partly on your recommendation!
I might visit that other thread when i'm otherwise, er, indisposed.
1 minute ago, Dr Bob said:Good choice of pump.
Yeah, it went up by about a fiver since i first looked but still a lot cheaper than a Shurflo imported from the US of A.
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15 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:
Never a good idea to get distracted by a thread. Under no circumstances go to the Pass the parcel thread (that's where the party is).
Thanks for the warning. Already i have spent at least one hour more than intended on the pc and it's getting perilously close to tea time.
I didn't even come back to this thread until i placed the order for the Parmax 2.9, because i want it in time to fit over the weekend while the other half is also on the boat to help me with any leaking water.
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3 minutes ago, rusty69 said:
Don't forget the Whiskey,its not too late now!
Normally it would be, but i'll make an exception for you.
I only came on here to sort out a water pump as per that Shurflo thread you responded to. A little voice told me that i shouldn't allow myself to get distracted by this thread.
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1 minute ago, rusty69 said:
As long as Froggy hasn't eaten it,there's also some Welsh Ribbit-Ribbit to go wiv the humous.
That sounds great and you've reminded me that i didn't have lunch.
Looking for parts and documentation for Stoves Vanette GG7000
in Boat Building & Maintenance
Posted
I will still be looking to get to the gas jet for the oven if i can easily remove the burner assembly. It's got to be worth a try to potentially save the cost and hassle of fitting a new thermostat. However, it is beginning to look likely that the grill issue is due to a thermocouple that has broken down rather than the jet.
We wouldn't be able to afford it right now, have had all sorts of expense on the boat and are also currently dealing with the Mansfield Traveler loo (as per my Shurflo thread, but even when the flush motor has been replaced, hopefully this weekend, the ball seal and other parts also need replacing). It would possibly be viable in the future, so if you do find what this cooker model is i'd love to know.