crossley

It was supposedly closed for gate renewal till Dec 18th. Anyone been through stoke since then? Need to move the boat from alrewas to Furness vale in early Jan, looking at the stoppages list this was the only obstacle apart from the harecastle tunnel opening times.

Ok, that's enough! I'm looking forward to visiting the boat day after boxing day, stay overnight, got a few jobs to do.some bottles of real ale onboard need to be responsibly disposed of too. Fire the old Gardner up, and get some amps in the batteries! It's been a month now, with one thing and another since I managed to visit and run the engine. Hope I've not killed the batteries, they seem such fragile things nowadays looking at all the battery related postings on here.

No, but there Is some POTENTIAL in the idea, to my CURRENT train of thought, though I'm encountering some RESISTANCE to the idea! If I was clever, I'd be able to get inductance and capacitance in too. But I'm a bit thick! Was hoping to provoke more of a reaction about this c**p idea but only sir has nibbled upto now! He's not the kind of bloke you'd try and gainsay when it comes to marine electrics! Me? I'm just a clanky. Lefty loosey, righty tighty.

I've seen mine at 29v when all batteries are fully charged,so 30v should be easily achievable, the only limiting factor I can see is the p.i.v rating of the diodes in the rectifier. 30v is a strange voltage, did the railcars have nife ( nickel iron)alkaline batteries originally? Railways could afford such luxuries on the grounds of reliability and very long life, in nationwide fleets it makes economic sense not to be changing batteries all the time, but the first cost is very high. It'd be interesting to cost a new bank of nife batteries nowadays.

Just had a look at two spare 440 reg's , both read low to med 250 ohms,med to high 250 ohms, low to high 500 ohms. Opened them to have a look and the low,med& high terminals go to a resistor chain as in the circuit diagrams. The sensing wire is connected to B+ inside the control board so it must be measuring battery +ve voltage. So if I connect a 500 ohm wirewound pot in series with this lead, take it to "low" terminal,I will have in effect a variable voltage control to tweak at will between 25 and 29 volts approx. How good is that? No trim pots inside either, must be very old ones had the trimpots inside.

I,ll have to start looking more closely in gutters in future then! Found a locking wheel nut socket yesterday in the gutter if that counts. Don't think they did a 12v version of the ac203, the rotor is wound for 24v anyway, even If you did muck about with the stator connections it's doubtful if you'd get full output with 12v on a 24v rotor winding though. Must be easier options. How's this for a c**p idea, go to a 3 wire system like they did in old houses with dc mains. Earth the centre tap between two 12v batteries, use the positive pole for engine electrics etc as normal, and the negative pole for domestic supply. Connect your 24v alternator across both ends, and hey presto! Your in business. Get one of those solid state battery balancer thingies to level things up a bit. Might make the anodes last a bit longer as well. Or not..

You may be correct, I'll measure the resistance between low, med & high on my spare regulator. Another option would be to put a nice big wire wound multi turn pot between "low" and the sensing wire. I could have infinitely variable voltage control then! That's what I like about this vintage stuff, dead easy to work on, well made and reliable. Plus you can experiment with it, and if you break it in the process it's not the end of the world. Plenty of into on the web about these,circuits etc I downloaded the entire manual in graphic detail quite easily. What would a brand new alternator, control board, etc cost today? Some underfloor engined coaches used a remote mounted alternator driven by shafts, through a speed increasing "transfer box" driven off the crankshaft nose. Leyland tigers had this. Wouldn't it be fun to try and use an old transfer box to speed up the drive from an old vintage engine to a nice big alternator? They weren't very big either as I recall.

Ok, thanks for that sir nibble, I was just thinking about using the redundant sterling charge controller to extend the time in " current control". I'm thinking about fitting instead a switch between Med and High terminals to short circuit the internal resistor chain, giving me a manual switchable "boost" or equalising voltage feature instead. I'll leave it alone for now, set at High, as I'm not having to top up the batteries as yet. I rebuilt the alternator, skimmed the slip rings, new brush holder,etc it's fighting fit now. I like to recycle things like this, A day spent removing all this stuff from a scrap decker was a day well spent then, I'm even using the fast fuse box and the double pole isolator. My way of thinking is if this can cope with the heavy lighting load on a Decker, it's more than man enough for a narrow boat. A constant 60A at idle is not a lot these days I know, but more use than nothing at idle and 120A at full revs,seeing how much time we spend at low revs. The bus breakers at Barnsley have all the bits to make up something like this for next to nothing if anyone's having a go. They do an 80A version also, but it needs a bit more revs for full output. If you have a 24volt system then there worth having a look at. Why do we have such large domestic battery banks on narrowboats? Motor caravans with similar domestic arrangements seem to manage with far less battery capacity. Maybe it's the weight.

I'm using a 24v 60 amp ac203 alternator and type 460 control board,in fact the complete charging system from a scrap bus. It's working very well, and gives me 60A at just over idle speed, 500 engine rpm,with a 2:1 step up ratio drive. It's not a self limiting alternator, it uses a shunt on the control board and two extra terminals, M1&m2 on the 440 regulator box. I,m sure someone will know the type,was common on busses in the 1970's. I get 27.7v on the "m" and 29.0v on the "H" setting on the regulator.it starts off in current control and limits itself to 60A till it reaches the above voltage settings, then goes into voltage control and it keeps the voltage constant while the current tails off. It works well for me, and most important it came free. Question is, I have a redundant sterling digital alternator controller on hand here, is there any advantage in fitting this contraption, and can it be made to work in this application? I've got grave doubts, but it's nice and shiny and got a nice row of multi coloured led's. Is 29v ok for open cell batteries? have 110 A/hr start and 360A/hr domestics with a victron vsr "intelligent" splitting relay. Just to give you an idea of my setup. Anyone tried this before? Maybe my bargain basement system is a load of c**p and I should be looking at something more modern?

Has anyone a manual I could beg steal or borrow for these starters? Have a box full of these in various states I've cannibalized over the years, hoping I may be able to cobble together a good spare one out of the leftovers. A good clear exploded view around the overrun clutch plates would most helpful too. Are the clutch plates to be assembled dry? I'm tempted to put a bit moly grease on the faces, but not if it will cause slipping under load. I always liked the un hurried clunk,.... Whirr whirr noise these things made. Are spares still available?

Hmm. I'm measuring up to make the flue pipe for my back cabin stove, is there any requirement in the bss for twin walled or insulated piping? Boat is 10 years old, but the back cabin stove was never fitted, so its a new install, not replacing an existing flue like for like. Cadged a 2 meter length of 4.5" O.D 316 stainless tube the other day, would like to use it if poss as it was free!

No. Its definately an oil filter. It's for lw,lx&lxb engines. Just googled it on their website. Don't think the Lk ever had such a thing. The gauze oil filter is adequate enough with low detergent oils, where the sludge gradually accumulates in the "base chamber"sump, but with "hd" Oils, which carry dirt in suspension, the paper filter cartridges must offer better filtration. Any opinions on the merits or otherwise of wire gauze/paper oil filters when using HD or low detergent oil?

Has anyone got an Lk with a paper type oil filter element fitted? All the Lk engines I've seen have the washable gauze filter in a domed cast ally cover. Maybe the later engines had a modified filter housing to bring them in line with later lw,lx&lxb types? I don't know, I've never seen one. Reason I ask is I have a new paper oil filter, a "purolator micronic" Type mf268 by me here. I was given it years ago, because it said it fitted Lk,lw,lx@lxb on the label. Maybe the application hadn't been highlighted,or the others struck out on the label. It won't quite fit in an Lk filter housing anyway. Anyone know anything about this?

Tony is quite right, poor combustion could be a factor too. But I'm only going off what we know so far, loss of speed control. We need more detail to make in informed diagnosis on this. Too many variables. It would be useful to know if, Before casting off, the engine was idling normally,no excessive white or grey smoke, misfiring or erratic idling.not that you would do such a thing! When clutching in, did the idle speed drop and then recover in the normal way,due to the governor action? Does it have single lever control? Could be something amiss there. We need to eliminate the possibilities one by one. Prove the fuel supply is adequate. Prove the oil feeds to the governor,and that its action is free and smooth. Prove that the fuel rack,quadrants,links,pivots etc are all freely moving. A Gardner engine in fine fettle is a joy to behold and will do all that Is asked of it economically and reliably. But they are not infallible. Beloved of tight arsed haulage operators and bus companies gardners have an amazing ability to keep plodding on year in year out with but little maintaince,while totally clapped out. But, like any engine, can be a box of frogs if badly neglected. Half a day spent going over the points others and myself have raised Is time well spent,and brings confidence in the engine. Gardners are an interesting engine to work on,beautifully over engineered,almost regardless of cost. Take an interest in it, show it some tlc, you've got a friend for life there.

My first post on here, so here goes, I don't think it's a fuel starvation issue this, as the op is reporting a loss of speed control, not misfiring or stumbling when clutching in. A 40 ton barge with a 4lw will be likely swinging a fairly large propeller through reduction gearing. It is possible that with a cold engine,cold engine and gearbox oil, shaft drag, a big alternator all sapping power it didn't on this occasion have enough torque to pull away. It's not easy to de-prime a Gardner Pump quickly as the fuel volume Chambers above the pump elements hold a fair amount of fuel. I would check that the air release vent screw on the filter housing is clear, it's a only a tiny drilling, and that the return line is clear. With the engine running,crack open the vent plug (s) on the pump volume chambers till fuel appears. Was the stopping cam fully withdrawn? This would limit fuel rack travel and rpm too. My money's on a sluggish governor action, if it's got cold congealed oil on it's sliding surfaces inside. Check the oil supply to the governor by quickly removing the inspection plug with the engine idling, don't put anything in or near the hole as the governor weights are revolving just inside. Just have a good look inside with a good torch. It should be throwing drops of oil out of The plug hole, not a massive amount, but have some rags ready. Look down into the bottom of the housing and oil should be trickling in from the cambox. There is also a feed at the back, higher up directly onto the governor weights which is quite difficult to see. There is a plug at the rear inboard side of the governor housing for this feed.replace plugs when finished. Many years ago I drove many Gardner 6lxb engined busses, and these too were gutless in the morning. Remember how they used to " hunt" at idle when cold, this gradually getting less as it warmed up. Going into work at 05.30 on garage duty and starting up 30 odd clapped out Daimler fleetlines and atlanteans ready for the drivers coming in. Thick grey smoke, watering eyes, your clothes stank of unburned fuel. A blast up the road and the grey smoke went blue, then by dinnertime was gone. Gardners offered an upgrade kit of high compression pistons for lxb's to stop them gassing people at bus stops. But we still love them!