umpire111
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Posts posted by umpire111
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On a few boats, I have seen what I would describe as a plasticised paint used on the gunnels and below but above the blacking. It’s always black in colour. Anyone know the name of it, does it patch easily after scrapes etc? Tx
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Is it possible to access the Weaver by travelling north on the Shropshire and going thru Ellesmere Port? Map seems to show access
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Can anyone advise please re a 2 or 3 day stay for a 58ft NB, in mid October. Would prefer to book rather than go on spec as going to a wedding.
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Have a beta 43 with an acoustic cage, usually the cooling fan turns off at same time as engine. Today it’s still running after engine turned off and did so for 30 minutes, until I removed terminals on supply to motor. engine was relatively cool. Any idea of what problem maybe or how to turn fan off other than pull the terminals out of the motor?
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On 09/12/2021 at 16:23, IanD said:
Triggered by discussions on another thread which I'd like to keep this separate to, I thought I'd post some information that people might find helpful...
Data/voice/music/video/TV
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*Everything* nowadays on the mobile networks is actually data, there's no "voice" as such, it's just another set of packets of data.
If you're trying to receive data where the signal strength is low, two things happen. The first is that the network reduces the data rate because lower rate data needs less signal power, this happens on all types of data.
The second is that -- if possible -- the application processing the data uses more buffering and increases the latency (delay) to allow short signal dropouts to be "filled in"; longer delay allows the link to carry on working in poorer conditions. On top of this the application (e.g. Zoom) can also reduce the data rate, for example by reducing video resolution or frame rate, or pausing video in favour of voice -- all this is done in the background.
For some applications (like streaming radio or audio) this latency can be quite long (one or several seconds), which is especially useful if the receiver is moving (see later). Other uses like video calls (e.g. Zoom) can allow a delay of a few hundred milliseconds, so are not as robust. Voice calls (phone) can allow very little delay, these have the shortest buffer so are most susceptible to dropouts.
So if you have poor signals, the applications most likely to drop out are ones with higher data rates and lower latency. A rough order of priority from flakiest to most robust would be something like:
1. HDTV streaming (e.g. iPlayer) -- typically >6Mbps download
2= SDTV streaming (e.g. iPlayer, YouTube) -- typically 2Mbps download
2= "Professional" video calls with higher definition, multi-user video and presentation sharing (e.g. Zoom/Webex for companies) -- typically 1.5Mbps (up to 3Mbps for HD video), low-latency, bidirectional
3. "Consumer" video calls (e.g. Zoom with 1 person at each end) -- typically 0.6Mbps, low-latency, bidirectional
4= Streaming audio/radio -- typically 128kbps download, high-latency
4= Voice (phone) calls -- typically 32kbps bidirectional, very low latency
General Internet access could fall anywhere in this range, depending on what you're doing -- some applications are happy with any data rate at all, most need a medium rate, some need the highest rates to be usable. So how reliable your data coverage is when moving round the canals depends on what you want to do with it -- if you need higher data rates (e.g. professional video calls, HD streaming) you'll have problems more often, and vice versa. The other problem can be that applications which need equal up/down rates have more of a problem because your phone transmits at lower power than the basestations, so the uplink rate can be lower.
Note that different networks (e.g. EE, 3, BT) have different coverage, you can be in a weak (or no-) signal spot with one and have decent signal with another, depending on where the basestations are.
Router/aerials/MIMO/movement/3G/4G/5G
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Anything that increases signal strength will help, for example aerials (bigger or multiple are better) outside the boat. Doesn't mean that ones inside (or a phone, or in a window) won't work, but they'll fail more often. Again, from worst to best:
1. Mobile phone inside boat (steel box with holes in)
2. Standard router inside boat (bigger aerials than phone)
3. Mobile phone in window
4. Standard router in window
5. Mobile phone outside
6. Standard router outside (or with external aerial)
7. 2x2 MIMO router outside (or with dual external aerial)
8. 4x4 MIMO router outside (or with quad external aerial)
A lot of this is obvious, but maybe MIMO needs some more explaining. MIMO stands for "Multiple Input Multiple Output", which means using several antennas on both transmit and receive. As well as large dead spots due to coverage gaps (e.g. a remote stretch of canal) the radio signal can have dead spots (or lower signal level) due to reflections, and these are often between a few inches and a foot apart at the frequencies used by cellular networks. If you have two aerials spaced apart it's much less likely that they'll both be in a dead spot at the same time, so older routers (e.g. 3G) pick the stronger signal and use that, which reduces the chance of losing signal. Newer routers (e.g. 4G) can combine both signals instead of just choosing one, which improves reception further -- this is a benefit of a more modern router even if you don't think you often get 4G signals. But in either case, two aerials can give a lot more reliable reception, especially in a moving boat where you can be continually moving through dead spots.
5G is a much-hyped new technology, mainly for the huge data rates which are possible in the higher bands such as 6GHz and 26GHz (mmwave) -- but these are irrelevant for most boaters today, there's not much 5G 6GHz coverage outside a few cities and there will never be 26GHz coverage outside them because the reach is tiny. However in the "normal" network out in the sticks there can still be an advantage on both network and router sides, especially with 4x4 MIMO (4 aerials) which can not only help even more with dropouts but can use a technique called beamforming to steer reception towards the basestation you're connected to but also reject interference from other mobile phones and basestations -- again, this means either higher data rates, fewer dropouts, or both. There's also much bigger network capacity with 5G but this will mainly be an advantage to high-data-rate users in towns and cities, for example where lots of people are using HD video streaming.
The negative side of this is that 4x4 MIMO 5G routers and aerials are new, thin on the ground and expensive (about £500), so you've got to really want to get the best possible internet access to justify this -- for example people who need "professional" video calls for work, or are WFH using remote hosted software (e.g. CAD design). For example, I have several conference video calls every day with other teams and working-from-home people around the world, good quality (HD) is essential for the material we're sharing, and company policy is that video cameras should be on so everyone can see everyone else. Many other people nowadays are WFH where the software runs in the cloud and they need high enough data rates to drive a local display with low enough lag to be usable. The data rates and reliability these need are very different to a normal person-to-person Zoom call.
For most people a 2x2 MIMO 4G router with external aerials is absolutely fine and is half the price or less -- but make sure there are 2 external aerials, and make sure these are omnidirectional (same reception from all direction). A lot of the aerials sold for wireless internet access are directional, meaning strong pickup in one direction and weak in all the others. This is right for a house where you aim the aerial at the nearest basestation while monitoring signal strength or data rate, but on a boat you'd have to do this every time you stop (and some are designed for wall mounting so difficult to point in any direction), and would definitely not be good when you're moving.
A 3G router or one with a single aerial is probably a false economy nowadays, dual aerial 4G ones are not much more expensive and will give better and more reliable reception.
Starlink
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If you really need the kind of high-speed internet access you can get in a house regardless of where you are and have very deep pockets (and good electrics), it might be worth looking at Starlink, Elon Musk's satellite internet service. which currently achieves about 100Mbps/20Mbps download/upload speeds in the UK. Downsides include getting hold of it, using it on a mobile terminal like a boat instead of a static one like a house, dish size, power consumption (about 100W!), and cost (about £500 install + £90/month). People who are using it in houses with otherwise terrible internet access seem generally very happy with it, I don't know if anyone has tried it on a boat yet, and it's not clear that the current licensing conditions allow it -- but I know a terminal intended for mobile is in the works so this will definitely happen.
Conclusions
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How reliable you find wireless internet access on a boat will depend on which network you're on, what equipment you have, and what your data rate requirements are. There aren't many completely dead (no signal) spots but there are still a few, in most places you'll get a signal but the quality may vary.
The better your setup is (and the lower your required data rate is) the better the chance of you getting good enough data rates in more places; with a decent setup (e.g. external 4G 2x2 MIMO) most people with typical data needs will get good enough reception almost all of the time.
People who really need high data rates and the best possible coverage (e.g. for HD conferencing or HDTV streaming) should go for the best possible setup (external 5G 4x4 MIMO) but may still have occasional problems, and could consider using Starlink if they can afford the cost/power and solve the availability/licensing problems.
YMMV 😉
Can you recommend a 2 x2 router and aerials for a boat please, tried searching but not sure which one to go for
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Anywhere to moor a 58ft NB overnight or even for a few hours?
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8 hours ago, blackrose said:
Lightly key the surface with a medium grit sandpaper - 360 grit perhaps but don't go through the paint. Dust and clean the surface. If it needs an undercoat put on a coat or two of Hemple primer/undercoat, then a couple of coats of International Interdeck non slip paint. It's limited in colours but very easy to apply.
Just need a recommendation for a suitable paint, one pack, RAL 9010, gloss, simples..no other advice required thanks
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I have white ral9010 paint on my roof. This was a 2 pack car paint. It’s starting to wear just on the non slip part. I would like to repaint just the non slip with a 1 pack paint. It’s gloss finish, can anyone recommend a suitable paint please
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2 hours ago, LadyG said:
Well, it depends, what is it?
Is it International Interdeck, which could be lightly wire brushed and sanded round the edges washed with sugar soap, wash, repaint. Probably not what has been used, but cleaning and degreasing is essential with all prep.
Some painters still use a sand dressing on top of wet paint, that could be tricky to deal with.
I have used SML matt silicone undercoat/topcoat which is found under marine section, it is easy to apply and easy to add plastic granules to replicate non slip.
I don't know what narrow boat painters use, others will know.
The original is Glasurit
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My nb currently painted a cream on top, there are the usual non slip patches. The colour has worn off the non slip and just those patches need repainting. Am told I cannot simply repaint those but but have to use a special pre coat before the top coat as the non slip prevents the paint adhering, .can anyone advise about this please
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1 hour ago, George and Dragon said:
I read something recently (could have been the manual :shock: ) that suggested the default cut off was after 75 minutes.
No, when I either manually turn it or it comes on with timer it stays on till I manually turn it off
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Advice please, I can set the timer to bring on my heater…no problem. But how do you set it to turn off? Read the manual and searched webasto database…can’t help. Is there a way to set a run time?
tc
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1 hour ago, blackrose said:
I haven't read every post on this thread so you may have already considered this, but I'd have thought that the noise and vibration could be coming from almost anywhere at the back of the boat. It could even be a mooring stake or hammer laying on the uxter plate or deckboards vibrating on supporting gutters.
It's quite difficult to identify exactly where vibrations are emanating from, but if you haven't done it already I'd be removing or isolating every loose object in the engine space and laying deckboards on bits of carpet or underlay to make sure they're not the culprits before thinking about modifying the weedhatch, prop or stern gland.
Did all that some months ago on day 1, Tx
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6 minutes ago, PeterF said:
Well now, we have been out these last few weeks and ours keeps making the noise which I have described before when accelerating and as noted also have a new Colecraft shell. Perhaps I will go ahead and repack the gland, I have done it in the water on my old boat so know how to do it.
Look forward to your after comments
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Well strange, back to the boat for a couple of weeks sailing, out for one day and still that annoying noise. Then I replaced stern gland packing….not a noise since! This is first time I ever changed packing, I removed two untouched rings from the gland, but there was not a sign of any debris for the one at the business end, is that usual? I put three new rings of packing in. Could that noise have been from stern gland? I’m very confused.
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4 minutes ago, Loddon said:
Loddon suffers from "ventilation" where air is sucked in from the edge of the counter.
Only happens when tramping on a bit, I believe it's caused by being over propped, (1500rpm is over 5mph in deep water) and there is not enough water available to satisfy the prop so it drags air in.
Never really noticeable when travelling at canal speeds.
It sounds like blodylaboop and bubbles of air appear in the propwash. Is this similar?
After living with it for nine years I might get the pitch reduced on the prop next year😱
But then I might not.
It’s something like that but mine is quiet in deeper water, not a sound on the Thames, only happens in shallower canals.
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58 minutes ago, PeterF said:
Funny you should mention that, my builder did exactly that to the prop fitted by Colecraft before the boat was launched.
I have noticed some flow noise on mine when I increase power which reduces as the boat speeds up, I put this down to the prop demanding more water than is arriving based on the boats forward speed and with an increased water supply to the prop as the boat picks up speed, the noise reduces. It is more noticeable on shallow sections but it is so slight it has never bothered me.
What did he do, file the prop?
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Just now, dmr said:
No, that's a way over the top fix and will likely have disadvantages (dunno what but everything on a boat is a compromise and 3 blade props are popular for a reason).
Fix 1 Learn to live with it.
Fix 2 Wait, it may well fix itself as the prop gets a bit of wear.
Fix 3 At next drydocking get somebody who maybe knows a little bit about props to adjust the blade edges with a file.
.................Dave
Think that maybe sound advice, value it, tx
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On 19/07/2021 at 18:24, PeterF said:
On your boat is the hole in the uxter plate smaller than the weed hatch chute leaving a step. A sketch would clear up any chance of misunderstanding. I will have a look at my set up as I also have a recent Colecraft hull and no issues with noise.The boat builder is also at a loss…he’s coming out next month to have a listen
Been suggested that I change the 3 blade prop for a 4 blade, bit more expensive but may stop turbulence….any views please?
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It’s not a vibration sound, 99% sure it’s turbulence or cavitation
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4 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:
If it sits on the ledge you probably wouldn't be able to seal the top, it needs a certain amount of clearance
Understand, so 1cm about right?
8 minutes ago, PeterF said:The bottom of the base plate on the weedhatch should fit level with the bottom of the boats base plate (uxter plate) to give the smoothest flow and least turbulence.
See the linked sketch showing this, not perfectly level but close.
https://images.cm.archant.co.uk/service/social-media-image/3844940/6242846/1/6217232-2/5tech-2.jpg
Useful Tx, so are you saying the anti cavitation plate should fit level with the step around the weedhatch, accepting that it will be a smaller size than the hole so not forming a seal?
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2 hours ago, umpire111 said:
The base plate of the weedhatch cover seems to sit above the step in the boat body, should it fit snuggly to the body?
After vacuum broken sound is still there, should the bottom plate of the weedhatch cover fit snugly to the body? Am sure it does not
There is a 1cm gap between the bottom plate and the “step” in the boat body, should the plate sit on that ledge?
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On 16/07/2021 at 20:01, PeterF said:
The water flow will vary in direction, velocity and turbulence with changing water depth and if you have a flow induced resonance then it occurs at a very specific frequency which requires a specific water velocity or turbulence. Therefore, the amount of resonance changes with water depth. The fact that it changes with water depth suggests that it is not a mechanically driven resonance from the engine rpm.
Have you checked that the anti cavitation plate sits level with the baseplate. If it sits too high or too low then you may get unexpected turbulence in that area.
The base plate of the weedhatch cover seems to sit above the step in the boat body, should it fit snuggly to the body?
On 16/07/2021 at 22:11, dmr said:When the sound came back did you open the weedhatch and did you still have the vaccuum?
What is the clearance round the bottom plate? with the rope on was it a snug fit or did you still have clearance?
Whats than stainless steel bracket thingy?
............Dave
After vacuum broken sound is still there, should the bottom plate of the weedhatch cover fit snugly to the body? Am sure it does not
Certificate of conformity
in General Boating
Posted
I have a boat which I took possession of on 1.6.20. A certificate of conformity was issued re boat safety…. Safety Certificate: RCDDC (date of issue 01/06/2020). Can’t seem to find out how
ong this lasts, searched the BSC site but no luck.
tx