Karen Lea Rainey

Beta marine 28, doesnt look old, do you think it would be worth taking the head off, the replace, re hone or repair etc an engine or just pay someone to whip this one out and put a reconditioned one in. Reconstruction around 3k plus fitting, my guess is you could spend 1 k investigating and removing engine only to then have to buy a replacement. Do you have any guesstimates / feelings for either option?

Would I not be able to see any ares of damage around the block or cylinder? I know that a gasket can fail within the internal channels of the block, having took the rocker cover off the valves show no signs of damage and no sludge anywhere in the rocker cover or round the valves/ tappets.

Bearing in mind I purchased a boat last week at a fair price including the engine which was not running. I am quite happy with the deal and now recognise that the engine needs sorting out. The flywheel is currently seized no doubt due to overheating, I cannot move the crank nut, the starter motor is off and I cannot move the flywheel with a screwdriver. I do not know the extent of the overheating from the previous owner, but they broke down and got towed in, then not wanting to face a repair bill they sold it to me at what I regard as a really good price. Today having got to my boat, i had a good look all around the block and cylinder head and there is no staining of leaks or boil out of water or oil running from where the head gasket would be. Next i got a jug and began to operate the hand pump on the engine block, taking about 1 ltr of fluid out before stopping to observe the mix. The first few pumps gave a splodge of water before any oil became visible in the next few draws. I have attached a picture of the jug and would value your thoughts on head gasket or is there any other possible scenarios for the water mix. The picture was taken about 4 hours after withdrawal so it had time to settle. Your thoughts please.

Hi Tony, it is definitely skin tank and I believe the same engine which is in survey reports from 2008 and 2016, I dont know what I was thinking the prv was a probable reason, guess I was just looking for reasons for overheating. I now remember of course its 2 different water supplies. I will have a good look all around the engine pipework after this weekends work, including entry / exit to the calorifier and water pump etc.thanks again.

Is this a possible reason for the overheating? When in bilge yesterday, bearing in mind I emptied 3 inch of water out of it 2 days before and got it completely dry, I noticed the overflow from the pressure relief was on the calorifier was drippling/ not quite a trickle was emptying into the bulge when boats came past or the boat rocking due to movement on board. As the calorifier is under the bed and just under the height of the engine, ( no visible water in the heat exchanger) it got me thinking that the prv is not sealing the valve. This would be a sure fire way that eventually you run out of water if your water pump isnt permanently and you tank becomes empty. The water tank is definitely empty yesterday as I tried washing my hands, not winterised just no water in the system. What are your thoughts?

I've read and watched videos of unseizing an engine by pouring a concoction of acetone and ATF fluid down the injector holes, leaving it for a few days and then trying to move the flywheel. It's mainly in the states and they use a liquid called miracle oil !!!, pb blaster or seafoam something or other. The 'old boy' set me thinking there was something in this using vinegar and ATF fluid. Has anybody ever done this? I believe you can also fill the whole engine up to the rim with a similar liquid and when its covered all the pistons for a few days you let it drain and refill with normall oil. Apparently it becomes very smokey for a bit but clears up. It wouldn't tell me why the engine seized in the first place but I dont think I'll ever learn the truth from the last owners.

Mike, I think you've hit the nail on head, again. Everything I've done now leads me to overheating, possibly stopping through having to at the last minute. Following morning it's to late. Just hope now that it's not to bad a seize and can be repaired reasonably cheaply. Thanks for your input.

UPDATE, UPDATE, UPDATE, Started from beginning of fault finding again. 1 starter battery removed, cleaned and sanded all contacts etc, battery dated new in August 2020, allowed to rest for 1 hr, volt test 12.6 volts 3 leisure batteries all removed, cleaned and sanded all contacts, allowed to rest for 1 hour , volt test 12.8, 12.8, 12.7, all replaced Sept 2020. Put sizeable wide blade thick mortar chisel in starter motor hole, try to prise the flywheel in any direction. NO MOVEMENT WHATSOVER FROM THE FLY WHEEL. Remove rocker box cover to see any movement, Put a ratchet socket 15mm on one of the 3 crankcase nuts( there is no single big nut), STILL NO MOVEMENT, my ratchet moved a bit, then a bit more, I've rounded the bolt, tried one more bolt, stopped before rounding another bolt. Then I thought is there water in the piston / chamber. So took all 3 injectors out, Back to the fly wheel end with a bit more leverage. STILL NO MOVEMENT FROM THE FLYWHEEL OR THE VALVES/ TAPPETS. I believe its seized and the heads now gotta come off, Over to the engineers at Streethay now, briefed them on what I've done so far. They said they will sort it, one old boy there even mentioned he could do it with a vinegar mixture and ATF, leave it for 3 or 4 days, then tap the pistons with a bit of wood. Leave it here we will sort it they said. Fingers and toes crossed now for a small bill.

Thank you Tony, I'm on my way there shortly and will report back. I will start at the beginning again, with check battery voltage, check all terminal posts for clean bright connections. Then address the flywheel with a screwdriver leverage, I am nervous about putting a racket socket and extension bar on one of the 3 small nuts on the end of the front crankcase, there is no central nut. Will i shear the nut off? Remove rocker cover to see valves moving hopefully. I have a new starter motor in hand later today, just incase the old one is at fault and has a weak bendix, worn threads and I will put that that on around teatime if all seems well before hand. I have spoken to the previous owners this morning to clarify when the breakdown/ tow into the marina happened and they told me it was" early last year". So the boat has sat in the marina for over 12 months without attendance, but the batteries were on float charge throughout. Now the truth or part of it is coming out from the previous owners. So , start at the beginning again, check batteries, and take it from there. Will report back later.

Thanks David, tried that, still no joy. Got the same whack/ clunk from the starter

Picture is starter attached, I do believe it's a denso nippon, worked ok on battery test earlier at home. Hopefully a better picture of the pinion.

Q. Thank you for your knowledge so far. Tomorrow morning I will tackle the flywheel with the screwdriver trick. If it moves albeit hesitantly at points on the wheel, then am I right in thinking that going forward from that the crankshaft/pistons etc are ok. Then thinking this through, the gear box feels ok moving the lever control in forward / reverse, so my brain tells me The drive plate is no longer connected to the flywheel, this would also explain why the bendix pinion is not meshing with the flywheel and that's why the very loud whack/ clunk is heard because the pinion cannot engage with the flywheel ( basically it out of line from the splines and bolts on the drive plate.) Do you think the drive plate could be no longer attached to the flywheel, bolts may have sheared off or worked loose over time. Have you ever heard of such a thing happening before? Following on from there, I could just about learn / try to replace the drive plate. As I understand it, do the following. Remove engine oil as as much as possible.? Unbolt coupling from propellor, move shaft backwards to allow, Unbolt gearbox from the flywheel, slide off the splines ,put aside presuming no problems with it. Remove bell housing / side of flywheel. Inspect drive plate. Would I then expect to see a completely unattached drive plate, where would the bolts be? Or do you think they would just be snapped and present.? Could the bolts be sitting in the bottom of the flywheel housing? When I was turning the driveshaft earlier, because of the splines on the gearbox/ driveplate , it wasnt moving the flywheel, and obviously the flywheel was not lined up with the starter pinion. Hence the back to the first question! Will the crankshaft/ pistons be expected to move when I do the big screwdriver trick?

Will do that tomorrow now, good strong screwdriver at the ready. Should it move with the prying of a screwdriver?

Hi Tony, haven't got a picture of it in situe, but on a survey from 2016 it is a PRM 120 mechanical gearbox. I do believe it is still the same one. Its identical to this one but it's in alloy silver.

UPDATE. UPDATE. UPDATE. Got wobble extension bars lined up, under the (slipped to the side alternator) 12mm bolt Removed the starter motor, it looks ok, no worn teeth, springs ok, bench test says it spins ok. Now, I turn the coupling drive shaft by putting a very large screwdriver between the bolts, put it in gear and its turns quite freely, it only turns one way, put it in reverse and do the same, again it turns without too much effort. Now because the starter motor is off, I can touch the teeth on the flywheel. I now expect the turning of the drive shaft to turn the flywheel at the same time. ITS NOT MOVING THE FLYWHEEL AT ALL. Does this therefore mean that the gearbox is responsible for the problem and that the wacking sound was the starter bendix thumping into the flywheel instead of meshing the pinion , therefore unable to turn the crankshaft/ flywheel. Could it be a drive plate / clutch problem, it sounds as though the gearbox is next to come out, but that is beyond me. Thanks again for your inputs, They are excellent knowledge for which I am grateful.

Will try this before further dismantling, this sounds to simple to be the problem. Would a jammed water pump really stop the rotation of the crank, would there be enough grip from the belt to stop it moving.? The loud clunk comes from the starter motor only, you can feel the shudder through the casing of it, it really does feel and sound to me like a stuck or broken pinion / teeth, by the sound of a loud slam/ whack/ thump /clunk.( I dont know quite how to describe it). It's much louder than a solenoid click on a normal problem motor. ?????? Could the 9 teeth cog on the starter have fell off or disengaged from the starter motor and is currently being held by the fly wheel alone?

I'm hoping it is just the starter, it's a prm 120 gearbox and skin tank cooling, Only bought the boat yesterday, gotta bargain knowing the engine wasnt running. The couple that sold it me were away on it, it wouldn't start next morning and got towed in to marina. They gave up and didn't want the hassle of investigation /repair. It was the first time the boat had moved in 2 years thanks to lockdown when they were away.

Yes that's correct, tried moving the flywheel, it wont move more than an inch or so. Couldn't get a spanner on the front of engine, so got a large gripper vice thing on the drive shaft to find that out, put it in gear but only moves a couple of inches in either direction.

It's been sitting in damp for to long, the solenoid energises but the bendix is stuck solid, I've tried wooden hammer, rubber mallet and lump hammer to free it. I think that the teeth / pinion is possibly stuck on the fly wheel or its burred and stuck! Turning the key gives gives a loud chuck sound, and trying it several times just makes the starter motor go quite warm (after 5 or 6 times). Looking at the picture on here of the 35, I'm now thinking your right, get the right length extension on a socket after removing the cables to allow access to the nut. I ll try that tomorrow now. Thanks

Here is a picture of the situation, you can just about see the lower nut of the starter, I've removed that already. The nut I cant get at is just behind the casing( behind the 2 steel bars that hold the casing together). From the picture you can see that there is no access from underneath because of the sump and of course the solenoid is also there to block further access. Hope this helps the thinking between us. Please note this picture is a 35, not the 28, but the situ is the same.

Hi Tony, sorry no the starter motor has about a 2 inch gap between the starter and the heat exchanger, there is no access from the underside of the engine sump area. The best description it the starter sits under the heat exchanger with just enough room to put the flat of your hand through, leaving no room for a spanner to fit in at the angle needed to reach the nut. Perhaps there is a boomerang shaped ratchet spanner that bends around the outer casing of the starter that is less than an inch wide !

Hi All, I have a beta marine 28 engine and I am trying to remove / replace the starter motor. There are just 2 bolts that hold it on, just like most other starter motors. The problem is access of getting a spanner for the inside nut removal. It is incredibly tight to get a normal spanner to go over the actual bulk of the motor, I cant get any purchase on the nut( not even close) . I'm thinking would an offset ratchet spanner fit, or is there a universal joint fitting with an extension bar or similar, or is there a special tool to use to get at the nut. If there isnt any solution for simpler removal, it'll mean I have to remove the heat exchanger and exhaust which seat directly above the starter motor. Hoping one of you has had the problem in the past and enlighten me on the right path.

I knew it would be a significant cost, but my other half said if you had a £30k car on the drive or a £30k watch in a draw." Are you telling me you wouldn't insure it properly". That convinced me to just spend the money and be thankful.

They had to belong to an 'accredited marine surveyors organisation's Which has to be on the business letterhead/ survey. I used Charles King at Monarch Marine ltd