David Lorimer

Thank you Nick D, that's very helpful.

I like your description and I should have said "...cruise as much as possible in a widebeam datebox" ? If by "proper boat" you mean a narrowboat, well, we have a 57' one but for year-round living we could do with a bit more elbow room and storage space.

Thank you Pluto, very educational thread, and isn't Kennet a lot more graceful underwater around the stern than the normal widebeam!

Here's a link describing the Leeds & Liverpool "Short Boat", which I expect is what Pluto was referring to. http://canalrivertrustwaterfront.org.uk/history/the-leeds-and-liverpool-short-boat/

Isn't it a given that the ideal boat will always be at the other end of the country? Pluto, which side of the Pennines are you on, and are you saying that one can get from one side to the other with a 62' wide beam? I'm also curious as to what "a traditional northern wide boat" looks like; would you have a link? I don't way to hijack this thread but, soon to be in the market for a wide beam home, many of the replies here have been very interesting. I've been looking at 60+' x 12', based on the eastern side, and we want to cruise as much as possible.

I'll agree with Graham Davis that fitting out a boat is nothing like bricks and mortar but if, as leeco says, his dad was a property developer, the basics - plumbing, electrics, heating - should not be rocket science. Peanuts, though? I'd like to know where to get those insurance and license rates, and where I can moor for zero.

leeco, may I offer a few observations based on our own ongoing research? I'm assuming, since you've mentioned the Leeds & Liverpool, that your folks are looking at the Northern wide-beam canals, not those in the South. If correct: A 60' x 12' boat will confine your parents to cruising either East or West of the Pennines. East provides more miles of waterways. A 60' x 12' boat is the minimum size they can buy without paying 20% VAT. I agree with Dr Bob regarding buying a fitted out pre-owned boat first and hopefully the previous owners will have ironed out most of the glitches. Even if your parents have some experience on hire boats, living on board is definitely different and the learning curve involved with taking on a sailaway would be pretty steep. I'd even go as far as to suggest a slightly different course, i.e. of putting in storage whatever they think they'd need on a wide beam, and buying a narrowboat. Use it and cruise it for a year, learn the maintenance, talk to wide-beamers and everyone else and listen, listen, listen. For the record, we have a 57' narrowboat near Braunston which we live on and cruise for three to five months a year. Like your parents, though, we're selling the house and looking for a wide-beam. Having the narrowboat to live on while we look, gives us the luxury of time. Good luck to them, and patience!

Tumshie, my conscience has been nipping at me for not saying more about Dutch Barges. There are plenty of flat-bottomed narrowboats and wide-beams built in the UK to look a bit like Dutch Barges, with wheelhouses and proud bows. They are nothing of the sort and taking them out to sea would be certain suicide. Even the older "real" Dutch Barges are not the type of vessel you'd like to be out on in heavy weather. The Peter Nicholls website does a good job of describing why their models - and those of Piper and Sagar, as OldGoat mentioned - are more seaworthy.

Tumshie, I think you'll find that the framing on a Dutch Barge is likely to be more substantial than on a wide beam. Look at some of the pictures in the Peter Nicholls site and then google widebeam canal boat construction for more detail.

Tumshie, yes, that's outside the box and probably, for me, outside the pocket too! I knew about the Peter Nicholls boats because a good friend nearly bought an FCN65 two years ago. He then decided on a much larger but similarly priced ex-hotel boat on the Midi.

Not to quibble but we haul on the rope quite frequently, mostly to haul the boat forward or aft a little. I don't use ropes as a substitute for reversing the engine ? Thanks peterboat!

Point taken Alan de Enfield. Perhaps I am giving too much weight to small items like pushing the bow off the bank or braking headway with a rope, my 16 tons vs 30 tons. The physical stuff. I have next to zilch experience even watching wide beams maneuvering because they're so rare where we normally cruise! Rare, that is, to see them actually moving.

Interesting take, peterboat. More reason for us to go North for a cruise this year before deciding. What length is your boat and what do you do about moorings?

Thanks again, much food for thought in your replies. I'm increasingly convinced that a wide beam anywhere in the South is not a good idea unless we intend to moor up and be done with cruising. Which is not the case. We've never cruised north of Middlewich so may plan an exploratory cruise North this year to get a better feel. Dr Bob's description of "spontaneous" nailed it: I can be underway in a matter of minutes, and I can handle a narrowboat solo. Somehow I think getting a wide beam underway would be a much more complicated affair and not one to be undertaken by oneself.

Thanks for the thoughtful and helpful replies. Athy a house will be the solution somewhere down the line, but we'd like some time before deciding where. Napton would certainly be a possibility. The views! Halsey, we'd stay near Napton only if we continue in a narrowboat; a wide beam would only be an option in the North or far South. I agree with you that friction between NB and WB users has yet to peak. Phil Ambrose, thanks, we'd need self storage only while still on board Wine Down, our 57' Madison cruiser stern. A replacement NB would be 60-62' semi-trad and there'd be no need for the extra storage ashore. And I do look forward to shedding all our "stuff". When on the boat we have never, ever, missed a single thing from home!

Athy, I do so agree with that and we have considered a wide beam or Dutch Barge on European canals as being less out of place than on, say, the upper reaches of the Grand Union. But the family and friends we want to get closer to are in Briitain. We're perfecting the art of guests hopscotching between B&Bs, cruising by day and taking an evening taxi to pick up their car and get to the following day's meeting point.

We've been narrowboating on holidays for nearly 40 years and, since 2014, have owned a 57' boat which we keep at a marina near Napton. We live in Brazil, I'm retired and we spend 3-5 months a year on the boat, sometimes long cruising, sometimes keeping close to the marina. We now intend to sell up in Brazil and become live-aboards later this year. The question is, narrowboat vs widebeam, and where? Our Aqualine Madison is a good weekend and holiday design for people with houses. It works for our 3-5 months/year only because I’ve installed a lot of extra shelving. We’ll be able to make do until Spring 2020 by renting some self-storage space but for the long term we’ll need a good deal more storage space. And, perhaps, living space as well. We love where we are, near Napton. The marina itself and the people, the central location. If we decide on a longer narrowboat, 60-62' there’s no question but that we’d stay right where we are. But then, there’s that siren call… a widebeam. The comfort, the being able to stretch your legs out in front of the sofa without crooking them in when someone passes. A near guarantee that the bed will be long enough for my 6’2” frame. And so forth. In researching threads comparing WBs v NBs I’ve come away with a fairly basic understanding that WBs are unwelcome in the South except on tidal river stretches, and even seem to be clogging the K&A these days. And, due to their attractiveness as housing alternatives, finding moorings is increasingly problematic. In the North, the boat population is said to be declining and, at least on the many tidal stretches, there’s plenty of navigating room - although permanent moorings aren’t easy to find. And, despite the attraction of extra space, I wonder whether going cruising in a WB anywhere would be as spontaneous a decision as it is with the narrowboat. We enjoy cruising, boat handling and meeting people. I’m sure that many CanalWorlders have faced similar decisions and I’ll be particularly grateful for any insights. I should say that we have plenty of family and friends in the UK and that, no matter what the beam of our boat, we have an escape capsule in the form of a camper van when things become too stuffy inside.

howardang, ain't it all in the nuances.

That is true, David Mack but... if one were to take your advice to its logical conclusion one might as well close the forum because nearly every subject has been covered already, yes? Like Crash_Box, I have a similar query which I will shortly post under the same "Residential Mooring" chapter of this forum. I have researched the subject of my query for years, and I know many of the answers have been provided over and over in many different threads. Still, I'd like to ask it - perhaps some new ideas will appear.

Thank you all for these ideas; glad to see the problem's been considered by others! I was approaching it from an industrial design starting point and, today, had a visit from a long-time friend, an old seadog and mechanical engineer, who remarked on the need to keep it from blowing away. DeanS has brought it all back to basics: a piece of wood and something heavy to secure it in wind. Thank you, so simple! And easy to store.

Walk up the hill a bit and there's The Plough, cozier, away from the traffic and with Sky.

Thanks cuthound and yes I've seen the perspex panels, great idea but which provide light but not ventilation. Well noted the point re hatch door linings needing protection as well. Means a longer canopy, in our case around 1.10 - 1.20m. When the prototype's done (sometime "soon") I'll post a pic.

I wonder if anyone has seen or designed him/herself a canopy to keep light rain from coming in the side hatch. I've looked for one on the web, in magazines and, more recently, at the Crick show and ... zilch. We like to keep the side hatch open for ventilation but, due to the cabin's tumblehome even a slight drizzle means the floor gets soaked. Our boat has a continuous L-section grab rail and I think it should be possible to make a one-piece plastic moulding that clips on to the grab rail and that extends out some 8" over the side hatch. I intend to make a plywood prototype just to see if it works but I'd be interested to know if anyone else has invented this particular wheel already and, if a supplier exists, how to contact them. Edited to mention that this is only for when the boat's moored, not underway! And that a one-piece moulding should be pretty flat and easy to stow away inside when not in use.

The obvious answer to the OP's question is yes, slow down to tick-over when passing any moored boat. But when do you start slowing down? I usually throttle back from our normal cruising 1300-1400rpm to the 800rpm idle when we're two to three boat lengths away, and accelerate when we're clear of the last moored boat. If approaching a very narrow section with moored boats I'd reduce speed a bit earlier so I still have good rudder control.