tangledfooted

well that told me. Thanks everyone. I'll definitely oppose residential but expect to have to swallow the rent increase. cheers

Stonebridge South Permanent Leisure Moorings (SSM) are offside moorings on the River Lee between Tottenham lock and Stonebridge lock, there are 43 boats at present. SSM is gated at either end with vehicle access from the South only. There is a dirt track, unofficial but long established gardens and onsite parking. There is no water or electric. Mooring fees this year are £188 per meter per annum. This site was inherited by BW about twenty years ago and some users have been here since before that time. CRT (Waterside Moorings) want to put in electric and water and improve the access road, add some finger moorings and hike the price from £188 to £300 per meter per annum. Works will start in April and finish in July. Price hike starts in April. Oh and at the end of it all - go residential. We have been in consultation for over a year and made some progress and enjoyed some concessions. They have actually listened. We expected prices to go up after electric and water went in by about 15%. Following the consultation CRT (Water mooring) published the attached proposal. We want to fight the increases in fees as mauch as possible. Has anyone had any experience of this sort of action from CRT and has anyone had any success as countering it. Can you suggest things we could do? Advice desperately needed. (PS I thick about 14 boats here are used as sole or primary residences)

Thanks very much. Really fast replies. So no relay then. The pump uses 600mA . I though of a cylinder stat but its going in a quite prominant place and the pipe stat is more discrete the stat is NO normally open and activates at 70C and returns to open at 55C. What sort of temperature range do you set your cylinder stat at?.

The pumped section of my solid fuel central heating system follows after the thermosyphon section. I want to automate the pump so it comes on when the temperature at the thermosyphon radiator reaches about 60degC and goes off when the temperature falls below. The pump and the pipe stat are about 7 meters apart so I thought a simple switching relay would reduce voltage drop at 12V. My question is how do you wire up a relay. ? And is there a better relay than the one I've suggested or should I not bother with the relay? The relay i have in mind is a 5 pin relay with the following connections 30, 85, 86, 87, 87A I have the following prospective connectors A 12V positive from battery B 12V negitive from battery C positive from circulation pump D negative from circulation pump E, F from the thermal switch So according to You Tube I need to connect A (12v+) to E through (thermal switch) F to 86, then B (12v-) to 85. I also connect A 12v+ to 30 (or jump 30 with 86) and C (load) to 87 and D to B (12v-). Is that right? and is there a better way? Should I use a switch with a different temperature 50degC? 70degC? Thank you

Thanks everyone. The general consensus seems to be that coal is cheaper than bought hardwood - though not as fulfilling aesthetically. That you can burn anything in a stove as opposed to an open fire as long as its seasoned. And that living in London is bloody expensive! So - I'm going to buy some coal and use up the firewood I have left and work the two together, banking up with coal at night which might take the pressure off the Alde in the mornings. Once again CWF come to the rescue.

Well I found out that : 1 kg Firewood = 057 kg Coal. Problem is what does a cubic meter of firewood weigh? Also I reckon cubic meter of Oak weighs more than a cubic meter of Poplar. But maybe they have taken that into account with their 1 kg FIREWOOD being some kind of mean or average. I've also discovered that 1Kg Uranium = 4,736,842 Kg FIREWOOD. But usefully 0.123 kg coal = 1 kWh

I lived at Springfield Marina on the Lee in East London for 7 years. The place is raking it in with boats selling for £20,000 over market price just to get a mooring. Officially it's a leisure mooring but 80% are live aboard's. If you let slip in the marina office that you live aboard the Marina manager (very dour) say something like "oh no you don't, No one lives on their boat they just stay here a lot" Or "Its nor rent it's mooring fees". Since then I've got a CRT leisure mooring upriver and live on that. Again about 80% of these moorings are live on. CRT as I understand it consider staying on your boat for more than 52weeks per year as living aboard but even then its not in their interests to care one way or another. Without live aboard's the only users would be holiday makers and CRT would be bust. Of course, there is no mail delivery and you need to have an address (friend or family) where you get your mail. Bank account, car insurance mobile bill and of course mooring fees and boat licence etc But otherwise its a breeze.

Last winter I started scavenging wood for this winter. By September I had quite a pile. And when cut and chopped i thought I had enough for this winter. It was about 3 cubic meters. (We have a CRT Mooring and a wood store) Its mostly Willow, Chestnut, a little Ash and some Poplar and London Plain. Its not fully seasoned all of it but its done us fine so far and it is mostly free ( a bit of petrol for collection and cutting etc) Well, since October its mostly gone! I reckon I've got about a cubic meter left. Which, if the mild weather continues might get us to Christmas. So here's the question - Coal or wood? Its to late to scavenge as the wood would be unseasoned and anyway it's cold and wet out there. So Im going to have to part with some money - gritted teeth. Locally (London River Lee) I can get delivered 3m2 bags of seasoned Ash/Oak for £200 or buy coal Homefires 25kg for £16.50 at Springfield Marina. I think I would prefer wood but not if it's going to cost me significantly more. Any thoughts about how to compare costs? Will I use less wood if it Oak and Ash? Of I found this ditty : Beech-wood fires burn bright and clear If the logs are kept a year; Store your beech for Christmastide With new-cut holly laid beside; Chestnut's only good, they say, If for years 'tis stored away; Birch and fir-wood burn too fast Blaze too bright and do not last; Flames from larch will shoot up high, Dangerously the sparks will fly; But ash-wood green and ash-wood brown Are fit for a Queen with a golden crown. Oaken logs, if dry and old, Keep away the winter's cold; Poplar gives a bitter smoke, Fills your eyes and makes you choke; Elm-wood burns like churchyard mould, E'en the very flames are cold; It is by the Irish said; Hawthorn bakes the sweetest bread, Apple-wood will scent the room, Pear-wood smells like flowers in bloom; But ash-wood wet and ash-wood dry A King may warm his slippers by. cute!

Hello Mike Im not saying I'm definitely going to try it - vzv to New World oven - just that if it was simple to do it would be a shame not to, especially as there is so little chose out there. Chances are I'll end up with a Spinflo, but if it was possible to convert the New World Oven to lpg - well that would be better. And it would be really annoying to discover later that it was really just a simple matter and perfectly possible. Just like with the Cannon Connemara - Cannon said it couldn't be done but in fact it was in the end quite simple. Especially with Cannon's own instructions. And while I have every consideration of guests and boaters near me. My main concern is my own safety as I'm fond of myself.

As a temporary measure I bought a second hand Cannon Connemara to convert to lpg -until such time as I can afford a new worktop, built under oven and a separate black glass hob - which is what i fancy. Having collected the Cannon and brought it back to the boat. I phoned Cannon/Hotpoint/Indesit to order an lpg conversion kit - now that I had the exact model number. I was told categorically the the Cannon Connemara could not be converted to lpg. I pointed out that Cannon make an lpg version of the Connemara and that the manual that came with my Connemara gave instructions for converting to lpg. They said they'd get back to me. Of course I never heard from them again. The manual give the spec. for the lpg jets so I went ahead and ordered them anyway. They arrived the next day and I fitted them and made other adjustments to the by-pass etc as specified in the manual. Works great, nice blue flames all looking about the right size. FFD on all burners only down side is 240v ignition - but I can live with that -using a match when the inverter is off. So when Im rich I want a built under oven and grill separate cavities with a 4 burner hob above and a new work top. The oven can be 50 or 60 cms wide preferable in black glass and Im not bothered too much about the ignition although 12v would be best. I've got a maximum depth of 57cms. And of course lpg. I has a spinflo Caprice on my last boat but was not very happy with it. I could get a Spinflo half midi prima which looks nice and is 12v, but the Caprice had a feeble grill and was all a bit flimsy - designed obviously for caravans used for the few weeks a year. IF anyone has this midi prima - I'd appreciate a review. Belling do something similar but I think it has an electric grill and its not pleasing to the eye and ain't cheap. So the oven I like best is the New World NW701 (in black) and this finally is my question. Accorning to New World the NW701 cannot be converted to lpg. there is no lpg version. What possible reason could there be for it being impossible to convert this oven to lpg. If I knew what size jets to fit to the oven and grill burners and reduced the valve by-pass to minimum what could possible go wrong? I dont think air intake is a problem (but it might be if there is a fan involved). I mean it may well be the case that New World just havn't bothered to get the appropriate EC accreditation or something so don't sanction conversion for legal reasons. I don't want to spend £400 on the oven only to discover there really is a good reason this can't be used on lpg. In which case I guess its the Spinflo - unless anyone has a better suggestion. Baumatic gas ovens are signal cavity I want a separate grill. Someone said look on French websites but my French isn't up to 'built under lpg double oven/grill'

Just an update: Firstly thanks for all the advice. I had finished the plumbing and filled up with water and found leaks at the pump and on one solder joint. I went to tighten up the pump joints and managed to snap the pump in half. 30 litres of water heading for the bilge via the newly laid engineered oak flooring! Cleaned up with old towels removed the pump fixed the solder joint and filled up again. No leaks. Lit the fire and had heat at the far radiator in half and hour. I managed to get a nice slope up just following the gunnel - keeping the flow pipe 4 inches below the gunnel. I used 28mm from the boiler to the first radiator and then 22mm on to the second. 15mm on to the expansion tank. I used full bore 15mm level valves on both radiators and no valve at all on the returns from the radiators. I kept the radiators parallel with the gunnel so they slope slightly up and join the flow to the radiators at the higher end further from the boiler so they would self bleed ( thanks Smilypete) and joint the return closer to the boiler. The return pipe is parrellel to the flow until it has to rise to the lower entrance of the back boiler. Thats where I put the pump with the venturi. So inspite of the pump being absent and there being some restriction on the return with an extra 90 degree and the venturi the whole works really well - even with a full water tank. The only concern is that i didn't bother with a return from the expansion tank -reckoning that the last radiator would do the job - as an after thought I took the level of the last valve so i couldn't close the valve. Do you think I was being stupid/lazy not adding the (feed) to the return? I just could'nt see why I would need it.

Very much like the venturi T. But positioning. The 28mm return comes in a bit below the lower connection for the back boiler, The pump has an natural 90degree in/out which would bring me vertical for a 90 or two 45s into the boiler. I was thinking of starting the by-pass with a T up from the horizontal then a 90 to bring it back the the other side of the pump on the vertical before the turn into the boiler. So T would put the Venturi T at the point on the vertical where the bypass rejoins the pump return. IS that right?

Thanks Peter, Pete and all. So looks like I don't need a by-pass and that in the event of a pump failure the thermosyphon will work throw it. Get a cheapish pump if necessary and use either a contact thermo switch or a cylinder stat but wired for normal open. Cheers.

Thanks Peter That makes sense now.

So an NO at 90c should do the job. Or should I go for 70C? Any thoughts on a by -pass - is it necessary?

I found this item on ebay. 151084725893 . I was thinking that a cylinder stat would turn on when he temperature was low and off when the temperature got too high. Thats the opposite of what I want. Which is a thermal switch that 'closes' when the temp is high and turns on the pump and opens at low temperatures and turns the pump off. Am I missing something ? Or are these cylinder stats reversible in some way. I think the pump is rated at 3amps.

So will the hot water cylinder/ pipe stat work with a 12v pump?

Once again I'm a bit confused - so I turn to the amazing wealth of experience and knowledge on this website. Im about to fit a couple of radiators and a back boiler to my squirrel. I intend to set it up as a gravity system with 28mm copper high flow and low return and an expansion and feed tank. Not too complicated. BUT I'm not entirely confident that the whole system will have enough slope to facilitate a good thermo-syphon - it might all get a bit tight under the gunnel by the time I get to the second radiator. So I thought it might be a good idea to incorporate a circulation pump on the return pipe as a bit of insurance or just to assist the thermo-syphon. Is this a good idea? Do I need to have some kind of by-pass around the pump if so what should it look like? Do I need a check valve? swing valve in the bypass?. If Im using 22 or 28 copper either side of the pump should the by-pass be in 15mm? The pump will probable have 1/2inch connections. If I fit a pump I'd like to control it with a pipe thermostat on the flow at the stove set to action the pump when the temperature hit 85C. Were can i get hold of such a thermostat. I can't find anything on ebay? Advice please.

Oh er ...pull out drawer .. well its not impossible and probably cheaper than a watering system. -In fact definitely cheaper - the Trojan Hydro link system come in at 299 Australian dollars - these days - that's quite a lot. Cant find a UK supplier? Turns out i had a word with a friend at the marina locally and he can get me [ T105'S AT 100GBP each which means I get 675 Ah for 600 pounds] and they are good batteries right? So as long as I can charge em OK - it makes sense. Probably another 50GBP for copper cable although he suggested beating flat 15mm copper pipe and drilling holes and rounding the edges to connect the batteries? Can any one see a problem with that? Ill definitely get the ammeter clamp - really useful and Im looking for a hertz meter with volts and hours to monitor the generators. I've got a Yanmar 3.7 diesel and a 3.5 Susuki converted to LPG and I hope to compare costs over the next year. Im paying 37GPB for 19kG LPG and 78p a litre for red diesel just now.

I've had a chat with the misses and we think we can afford 6 x T105'S. I've check the battery box and they will fit if I remove the YUASA'S. Im going to load test them over the weekend to make sure there finished. If any have some life in them I might well put them on the 12v pumps lights only. [ l Like that idea] The large inverter is a combi - with a 65A charger which we can get next month. Then I could use the 40A charger for the YUASAS and the 65A for the Trojans. I've been thinking about more solar or wind - just thinking that wind might be better in the winter - the solar sort of holds up in the summer. Ill look into that. One problem though. There is only 143mm space above the TROJANS which will make topping up a real chore - any thoughts about automatic top up systems - I can't find anything on google. And finally - yes OK I've been lax - ill need to follow a proper charging regime with a t least 1 weekly float session. So Ill check out the 40A charger to see if I can adjust the variable. With the new batteries - I will. Cheers all for your help - as always. Will

Thanks N So As things stand and as its January we run the 3.7kW generator for 11/2 to 2 hours in the morning before work and then for 3 hours at night. The 40A charger can be set for only one type of battery for all three banks. It has 4 hours Absorption cycle so never gets to float. [ I realise we should try to get to float once a week or so but I have to admit it just doesn't happen - and i wonder sometimes if its worth it because, having eventually got to float stage you really need to keep it there over night to do much good and that isn't practical ? right?] Solar 510 W through a 60A not MPPT CONTROLLER 12v pumps, LED lights 240v TV , Fridge, DVD Laptops phone chargers Sewing machine Kenwood Chief curlers hairdryer From April to September the solar are great and we only run the genie in the morning for my partners hair dryer: We gave up on the fridge in late September and brought out the gas fridge which we are using now. We also have a washing machine. This will not work directly of the generator so I run it off a Mastervolt 2kW mass sine inverter with the generator running. Works OK up to 30 degrees. The Mastervolt Inverter died last Novemeber and has been in for repair since then. Im pretty sure its buggered. So we have managed with a 1kW PSW inverter as a back up since. So no washing Machine and no fridge at the moment. Most evenings my partner loves her box sets and once I turn off the generator at about 8.30 pm she's got maybe 2 hours before the inverter alarm goes off, certainly by the morning we are normally down to 11.8V. If we forget to turn off the inverter. Any thoughts about curtailing our comsumption are like water of a ducks back as my partner Angela would consider it a blatant infringement of her human rights and probably take me to court. So I need lots of power. So this year my thoughts are that it would be nice to have the fridge working all year and I want to get the washing machine back in service and for my partner to get through series 1 of the Walking Dead in one sitting. AND to run the generator less often. My thoughts 1. More batteries - maybe 4 6v T125s in a new bank alone side the one bank in some form or another. 2. A more powerful charger to run alone side the 40A charger I already have - maybe to charge the new bank. 3. A new inverter 2 - 3kW 4 more solar or maybe a wind turbine [ we are on a CRT mooring so can put it on the land] Obviously cant do all of this in one go so I thought I'd start with the batteries. Whoops Im running out of laptop battery and the inverter has turned it self off . Were down to 11.6v - better go and start the Yanmar ...... Will

But what if you think about it as a main domestic bank and a reserve bank. If I treated the Trojan bank 6V 225Ah x2 x2 = 450 Ah 12V and then have a reserve bank of 310 Ah. I mean it would be silly just to discard the Yusua bank. Then I could use the 40A charger for the reserve bank and the 65A charger for the main bank and with a manual changeover switch use each bank one at a time or both at once. Not sure how the Peukert effect effects two banks more than one?

Hello At the moment I have a 4x86Ah 12v Yuasa sealed lead acid battery bank - they are about 4 years old. They are charged by a bit of Solar and a 3.7kW generator through a 40A mastervolt charger with room for 3 battery banks. I want to add more capacity but cant get more of the YUASA batteries and would like to fit some TROJANS T125s - I've got the space to fit another bank and don't want to ditch the Yuasas yet. I can set up a new bank of Trojans and charge them from the spare slot on the Mastervolt charger. How best should I incorperate them into the existing system? Assuming all the Neutrals joined together including the starter battery. Should i just join the two positives leads from both banks together? Thats in parrellel right? would that make 24V? would that effect charging? would that be generally stupid or Should I add a change over switch and manually swap banks when one has droped too far? Are there any good wiring diagrams for this set up? How can I use the solar to charge both banks? Most of the power ends up going through a 1 kW inverter. I hope to replace the inverter soon with a 3KW / 65A Combi - not sure how many banks the combi will support its at bimble solar under 12v inverters - but if only one then I could use the Mastervolt 40 for the other bank - I've got enough kW on the generator . I should say that this is a live aboard and we only really take to boat out to get water, pump out etc. We never run the engine to charge the batteries and don't cruise but use the generator and solar. Its fitted with a Adverk AAR but Im not sure its working and this goes through a split charger to charge starter and domestics. I can probably live without worrying so much about charging both domestic banks with the engine Any thoughts?

So I sent an email to Alde technical support and got a rather terse but informative reply. They suggest connecting the tp5 to the control panel from the remote start connectors and that I would need an external start connector from Alde at £8 plus £11 P&P. So I have a look at the control panel and found the pin terminals right next to the terminals for the window sensor with a jumper on them. Look like standard computer pin connectors available from Maplin for £3 prewired. I can now turn the boiler on and off with one button and set up to six time zones a day! Excellent. Thanks for all you help.