Traveller

Thank you Neil2. What Mr Norman says about Riccos is true to an extent but they are building bigger craft that have no place on a narrow waterway like the Ant and in a restricted environment like the Broads. They now have so many boats that they have several turn round days a week and all the nice moorings on the Ant are always full (at turnaround time) with boats mooring for their last night before going back to Ricco's. Yes, some (a few) holidays have been terminated early and that is to be applauded, but the general size and number of boats coupled with limited mooring will always bring about bumps. Speeding is a huge issue on the Broads. As for the BA, I don't want to go there but they appear stuck in the middle - they want a green, natural environment but cannot afford to do anything without the fees that the hire yards pay. These yards have only one target - profit, but with such a small area to play in there is not much room for compromise. The Broads are Disney on the water and to be honest that is what the hire yards wish to sell - an extension to Great Yarmouth - as evidenced by Riccos latest boat with pictures of pirates and things all over it and as evidenced by the number of boats full of booze and flying the Jolly Roger with the crew wearing pirate hats etc. And these are not kids. I know we all get our fun in different ways and we really must live and let live. I have no problem with that philosophy at all - so long as I can have my own quiet enjoyment.

thanks and Athy, yes you are absolutely right - Mrs S will kill me!

The boat I put an offer in for and subsequently rejected due to the survey showing it a basket case is still being listed as under offer, even though I have cancelled the deal and received back my deposit. The boat has been continually under offer since I made the offer! May be nothing sinister but it seems very odd to me.

Phil Ambrose, we live in Norfolk and love the place but as a cruising ground I do not enjoy it. Mention problems on the related forums and you get shot down in flames by those who seem to want nothing else than the ability to fight for moorings, bump into other boats and generally accept bad behaviour and bad boatmanship as necessary for the benefit of the local economy. One notable character said that being smashed into is part of the "experience" and that I should learn how to make GRP repairs! To experience the mayhem all you have to do is moor close to Richardson's yard on the River Ant during turnaround. The Fens are quiet, our first boat (which we had for about 20 years) was a narrow boat and we kept it a Charlie Fox's yard in March. Charlie has now sadly passed away but Fox's Marina continues to be run by the family. The other marina I know is that run by John Shotbolt; I think it is called Bill Fen. We had some great times there and boating is very cheap on the Middle Levels.. From there we moved to Oundle on the Nene and finally to Crick. The problem with the Fens/Ouse network is that it is a long drag to get back on to the canals. And there are not many places" on the Fens, plenty of solitude though. I do not expect everywhere to be totally quiet and I do enjoy the buzz when going through places like Braunston. I just do not relish the chaos that can, and more often that not is, the Norfolk Broads. It is this ongoing chaos that I want to avoid - selective chaos is ok :-) And finally, it will be a narrowboat. If I went GRP again then I would certainly go for the Ouse.

Thanks. We are looking to moor at Crick - it was always quiet enough when we were there before.

The start of this season was quiet due to the horrendously cold spring. From July (end) on things picked up big time though. And by August...well most of us at our mooring stayed tied up in the yard - or headed South where it is not so bad given the wider rivers but still pretty bad at mooring points. And you can cruise around the entire broads in a week. Ok for hols I suppose but no good if you are a boat owner used to having places to go!

We have become fed up with the Norfolk Broad's, too many boats in a small cruising area of circa 140 miles, too many party (heavy drinking) boats about and a general lack of moorings where one can stay for more than 24 hours. One can hardly drift off somewhere and tie up for a few days and even when moored it is likely another boat will ram into you whilst it is trying to moor. No the Broads are not for us anymore - don't like the mayhem! BUT, reading the canal press I begin to wonder if it is any different now on the canals. It is some 7 years since we cruised them and the reports of what CRT are up to in terms of mooring restrictions is cause for concern (maybe unjustifiably so). I also note there are a lot more marinas about than there once was so does that mean more boats, overcrowding and the replication of the general mayhem I have witnessed on the Broads, especially in high season? Is there a proliferation of "party" boats coming out of the hire yards? Now I know nothing is ever perfect and there must always be a bit of give and take/live and let live, but what is it really like out there nowadays? Am I jumping from frying-pan to fire or is it all just a storm in a teacup with the general case being much the same as it always was? Thoughts please!

Ditchcrawler, the boat is 1998 vintage.

Wise words Martin. I would hate to spend £25k on a boat only to find it needed another 10k spent on it!

What I do know is the boat was over-plated by Anglo Welsh who had a very good reputation I believe.

It is quite interesting reading the different views about the merits of a survey - there are as many against them as there are for. On the Norfolk Broads however everybody seems pro survey and the general advice is do not buy without it. Cannot understand that! We are contemlati9ng a trip to look at a boat that was over plated (bottom and sides to lower strake) three years ago. The boat has apparently been blacked on an annual basis and is ex hire (just come out the fleet). Seems a good boat and one where perhaps a hull survey is unnecessary. However, being ex hire there is no documentary evidence re the over plating, although one can see it has been done. To survey or not to survey that is the question!

Must get to a point where it looks pretty ugly though, especially when it is side plating. I agree with the epoxy route, it certainly does provide a strong protective coat, but I imagine even that is not concrete proof.

Just curious, many boats have now been over-plated and some many years ago. What is the future for an older old boat where the over-plating needs attention. Do they just over-plate again or do they take off the old and put on new? Or is it the end of the boats like!

Thank you so much NBDensie, I favour the more scenic route so shall now run off and consider the map.

Will be picking up a boat at Norbury Junction with a view to bringing it down to Crick Marina. There does not appear to be too many locks other than around Hatton but I note the route takes me through the middle of Birmingham - which I have never done. Is there anything we need to be wary of or is it pretty much a nice friendly route? Not sure whether the trip will be now or in the spring. The plan is, I think, the sooner the better.

Whilton go to great lengths to say they do not recommend a surveyor they just provide a list for you to chose from, but you are not bound by it and you can use who you want. Crag did our survey and was very reasonable in that he halved the price as the boat was a basket case. There is a huge problem when buying a boat in that, in my view, some vendors get the boat put up at a price that reflects a boat of that type and age in good condition and then haggle over the costs of putting it right. Sometimes walking away is the right thing to do but by that time you have an interest in the boat via the survey fee which you cannot get back. What does surprise me is the fact that Craig won't inspect the work done to make the boat insurance worthy. Is he really saying he will not do that or is he saying he will but for a price? If the latter then that is what I would expect. I do not see it as something that is wrapped up in the original survey cost. Not sure what his position is re further inspection relating to BSC. I wonder what the position is re the hull repairs and not having a surveyor sign-off? Does it impact on insurance - I know not all insurance companies actually ask for a hull condition report. Incidentally - I have now got my deposit back from Whilton. Not sure I would use them again though...there is just something about the way the sales guys behave.

Are not Faster Payments and CHAPS different - FP is free whilst CHAPS has a charge associated with it of around £25 I believe?

That is probably via the faster payments facility. What I do not know is if businesses can use the facility. Clearly CHAPS and other payment methods still exist so there must be a reason. I also think Faster Payments carries a limit in terms of the maximum that can be transferred at any one time.

Whilton have now told me they did a plain bank to bank transfer which will take 3 working days to clear. In fact if the made the payment late on Friday it will probably have missed the deadline and will not therefore get processed until today, which means it will take 4 working days.

I have an email from Whilton saying they agree that my deposit is to be refunded and I have a second email saying they wired it to my bank account last Friday. What the sales guy cannot tell me is what time they wired it and what method was used - i.e. same day payment (CHAPS) or some other. It is usual for payments over the internet to use "Fast" which is pretty much an instantaneous transfer that shows up on the recipient account within the hour. What I do not know is whether FAST is available to companies - it may well not be. All I can do now is give it a couple of days to see if it turns up. Maybe they used some kind of "snail" transfer that will take a day or three to clear!

Whilton have accepted the sale is not going ahead due to the boat failing the survey. They have also agreed to refund. I have emails to that effect. It is just their total unhelpfulness in making sure the money actually gets to me that is infuriating. They just don't care. Now some will say that they won't care because the sale will not complete. But I am still in the market for a boat so why would they adopt an approach that might drive me away from their establishment?

Well, we went after a boat via Whilton (covered on another thread). The boat failed its survey and Whilton have been less than helpful re returning the £1k deposit. Every time I phone I am told it is down to this mysterious Finance Director who remains nameless and never corresponds. The latest is the cash was paid yesterday but it is not showing on my account. I have asked how they made the payment CHAPS or Faster Payments, or basisc bank to bank etc and of course the sales guys do no know 'cause the Finance Director did it! I am told get your bank to look for it and of course my response is - sure, but can I have a copy of the payment instruction please.....you've got it, they have no idea 'cause that spooky Finance Director did it! Never, ever again will I set foot in that establishment. Maybe I should write to the main directors - presumably the brokerage is part of the Whilton Marina Ltd?

Neil2, thanks. There is another boat e intend to look at and she is at Braunston. The boat is 1987 and was over plated in full 3 years ago and is ex hire. The one thing I always worry about with ex-hire is engine hours. On the other hand a good hire company looks after its boats, that is why there are so many ex-hire running around the Norfolk Broads. We are trying to find out who the hire company was. Matty40s how do the insurers know if the hull is 4mm, except via the initial purchase survey? As I understand it, many insurers do not even ask any questions re plate thickness. We insured for years with Knox Johnson and they never ever asked to see a survey or hull condition report. Things may have changed though..

Just about to whip off and have a look at another boat, being sold by Norbury Wharf from what is the old Anglo Welsh yard. Anybody have any experience of Norbury Wharf brokerage? They seem attentive and helpful but given my recent experience I am a little "shaky" but appreciate there are good guys also.

Fair comment Old Peculiar but, and maybe this is all brokers, I do take exception when a boat is valued far above what it should be with the result being the survey identifies a basket case. Net result is hefty survey charges and of course the slippage charge which goes to Whilton. In such cases I believe the slippage charge should be refunded as by valuing the boat (or allowing it to be valued) at a greatly inflated price is misleading - and you cannot see the hull when the boat is in the water. In fact at Whilton they are so tightly packed it is hard to se the hull at all!