IanD
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Posts posted by IanD
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4 minutes ago, magnetman said:
I think you could use it to put a dining table and windows.
Done right it could be pretty close to the water although then not useable towpath side.
One sees superyachts all the time with hull skin doors which close up and the boat is still suitable for transatlantic crossings.
Not rocket science but yes there would be certain things one would not be able to do with the extra space.
Probably slightly pointless.
But don't forget that with an RV people don't have to walk up and down the vehicle while it's moving, so it's OK if the retractable section blocks access when closed up. This isn't true of narrowboats, though it could work for wideboats just like it does for superyachts...
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11 minutes ago, peterboat said:
I know pub owners and they charge what the market can afford.
And if that isn't enough to make the business viable -- because "what the market can afford" is defined by 'spoons, according to you -- they go bust and close down.
End result if you're not careful is a 'spoons-only desert, but I guess you'd be happy with that... 😞
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Just now, magnetman said:
Fair point. I lived on narrow boats for 12 years full time. Too narrow. My two boats now are similar internal volume (30ft X 10ft6 and 40ftx9ft) but the actual layout is much more comfortable than a narrow boat (for me).
However of course it means one can't do the coffin locks.
If I was spending a lot of money and could find a suitable fabricator I would be tempted to design and execute the build of a narrow beam craft with "slideouts" like you see on RVs.
Could be quite cool. Needs doing properly and only useable in sensible situations but one each side just might be quite interesting.
Or pointless?
The "slideout" idea has been floated (ho, ho...) before.
The problem is that it has to be well above water level, unlike RVs where it can extend down to floor level -- and never mind the safety problems since RVs don't have to float.
How much use is a wider slideout section that only extends from well above knee height to the roof?
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18 minutes ago, peterboat said:
No it isn't, have a look at how fast his chain has grown, hint its not been that rapid, he has planned the growth by providing value for money! I don't expect you as a champagne socialist to understand why people go there, because you can afford not to, many can't, so they go where they know they will be welcome and can afford to have a drink and eat without being ripped off.
Yesterday spoons was probably the busiest curry house in the UK, also more than likely the cheapest, it might not be the best but I didn't see full plates going back just empty ones.
I knew nobody in there but a couple asked to share my table as the place was full, so I had a couple of hours of good company with a great stout and good food for not a lot of dosh
You really should cut out the name-calling, Peter...
I understand exactly why people go there, for the reasons I stated and which you've just agreed with -- acceptable (if variable) quality and service but really cheap. If that's what floats your boat, fill your boots 🙂
Some people prefer to support better-quality genuine local pubs and restaurants even if they cost more, rather than see Tim Martin driving them out of business. If you think these are ripping people off (so why aren't they rich then? do you know any pub managers?), go to 'spoons. Your choice... 😉
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1 minute ago, magnetman said:
Though they have another tier of boats above this... 😉
https://www.napton-marina.co.uk/boats/regency/index.php
(we hired one this summer, very nice in some ways but some features not very well thought out and a few slightly scruffy bits...)
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51 minutes ago, peterboat said:
Once again the majority seems to like the places. Tim is ok I have met him on numerous occasions when I worked for Cornelius, always remembered your name and gave me free tickets for the opening if I was going to be around. I hadn't seen him for I would say 10 years when I bumped into him in Chesterfield, we recognised each other exchanged pleasantries and he sat with us and paid for the food and drinks! That's why he is successful
Is that the same majority as you usually mean i.e. you and your mates?
Many of the people I know -- again, probably the majority -- share my opinion of 'spoons and Tim Martin. And going by the number of users of the neverspoons app, so do an awful lot of other people who like good pubs... 😉
He's successful because he offers cheap beer and food and populist opinions, which some people value above all else... 😞
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9 minutes ago, peterboat said:
Or you are wrong ever considered that?
Not where 'spoons is concerned -- have you? 😉
(yes I've eaten and drunk in 'spoons on numerous occasions, some are OK, some are rubbish especially service, beer quality and choice varies, the unifying feature is they're cheap, and Tim Martin is an a*sehole...)
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22 minutes ago, peterboat said:
Loads of hand pulled to choose from, it's Castleford. The reality is Spoons are easily the most popular pub in the UK last night no spare tables to be had
"Six million flies can't be wrong -- eat sh*t!" 😉
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4 minutes ago, peterboat said:
2.10 squids for a chocolate orange stout in Spoons! Along with not a bad curry a good night was had when I had to stay because of rain 🤣🤣🤣🤣
How about beer, not pudding? 😉
(yes I know Spoons are dirt cheap and you love them dearly, other opinions are available...)
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8 minutes ago, BEngo said:
The Ocado model I can understand. It conforms to the idea above, though the cost of ownership (lease) of an automated warehouse needs to be added into the bill.
Tesco et al pick in their own stores. That means the "stuff" has to be delivered to stores, stacked on shelves and then removed again by an army of extra staff. That means no reduction in shelf space etc. Except perhaps cashiers though there are never enough of them anyway. So where do they benefit?
To some extent, it seems increased volume and headline market share. I don't understand the supermarket business well enough to know why these things are desirable. The car industry has been pursuing them for years, but does not seem to have gained much.
Whatever, it meant millions were able to get stuff without having to go near other folks during the pandemic, so there was a societal benefit.
N
Agree that the store-picking model makes much less sense than the Ocado one -- and that robotic warehouse certainly isn't cheap but I suspect it actually saves them money because it can serve a high number of customers with far fewer staff, which is why they've licensed the technology to others.
I guess the reason for store-picking is not to increase volume/market share but to stop it decreasing if your competitors offer home delivery and you don't.
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14 minutes ago, Heartland said:
Another location question, this time from 1967 and one of my own photos. I was interested in the Ruston and Hornsby diesel locomotive but there is a canal in the foreground, Any ideas ?
Shelton Bar steelworks?
I remember going through the middle of it by boat and feeling the heat from the furnaces and the rolling mill, seeing the hot metal and watching the sparks fly -- quite something...
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5 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:
In experience, the price of a pint of beer in London isn't noticably more than it is in Birmingham. The idea that a pint in London is comparitively extortionate is a myth.
Having spent plenty of time recently in various pubs in London and also places like Brum and Sheffield, I can confirm that beer (real ale, not lager) *is* more expensive in London -- anything under £5 a pint is a bonus, and some places are over £6, compared to perhaps £3.50-£4.50 typical in the Midlands and North -- so maybe £1.50 a pint more expensive.
Which shouldn't be any surprise given the higher costs of running a pub in London (rent/rates/lease/wages). A friend of mine who's just left a job as a pub manager was always complaining about this...
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13 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:
At £10 per day commute it is not dissimilar to the price to a pint of beer in London.
(In fact the UK average beer price is apparenty £4.57)
So you don't buy beer in London either, then -- at the pubs I go to most often it's around £5 a pint.
Irrelevant anyway, the issue is whether they want to or can afford to pay a couple of grand a year, not how much a beer costs...
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2 hours ago, MtB said:
Also, 'elite' means different things to different people. Braidbar for example build modern style boats for people to whom stuff like granite worktops and fine quality interior machine-made joinery and posh bathrooms is important. Any subtlety in the lines of the steelwork usually lost on the buyers to whom this stuff is paramount. Other buyers are more concerned with the steelwork and the look of the shell. For these people, Steve Hudson, Ian Kemp, Graham Edgson etc all built for people with a picky eye for the look of their boat. Sadly all deceased now. Go-to shell builders now might be Warwickshire Fly Boats, Brinklow. Dave Harris but they won't be interested in you as a buyer if to you an 'elite' boat means air conditioning and a dishwasher, or electric propulsion. For money-no-object bleeding edge technology electric boats, go to Finesse.
Stand by for a stream of posts quibbling about the above!
Many of the "elite" boatbuilders use hulls built by the same hull builder, for example Tim Tyler supplies Braidbar, Norton Canes, Finesse and others. The look of the shell is largely down to what you ask (and pay!) for, anything from riveted replicas down to sleeker more modern styles are available. I've watched my hull being built by Tim and the skill and workmanship is something else...
I'd agree with the last line, it's what I'm doing -- you *do* need deep pockets but I expect the final result will be excellent quality and *exactly* what I want, even if it might be other people's worst high-tech nightmare... 🙂
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Just now, PaulJ said:
Depends. I try not to but needs must.
Often by train and sometimes by water. Enjoy boating through alot more than the train.
Plenty of people commute in and pay way more in rail fares-they also pay rent/mortgages/moorings too so I dont think thats an unreasonable extra cost if you want a free mooring with a bit of space.
I agree, it's not unreasonable -- the problem is that the boaters in question (living on the canal because it's cheap) either don't want to or can't afford to pay this, £2000 a year is a lot of money to some people.
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11 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:
Environmentally I agree, but finacially it is a nonsense.
50 deliveries at various prices - say average of £2 = £100 per day.
Cost of driver (salary, pension, holiday pay, etc etc)
Cost of the van (purchase price, depreciation, MOT, insurance, maintenance)
Cost of fuel.
Cost of staff time in the warehouse picking and packing my order.
But you're not looking at the bigger picture...
If the supermarkets deliver more goods in vans (especially from centralised depots like the automated one Ocado use) they sell less in stores, so need less space and fewer shelf-stackers and cashiers and tills and deliveries *to* the supermarkets...
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17 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:
You may have a point there.
Personally I feel a level of sympathy for many reluctant movers. They've found themselves in a difficult situation which many of CWDF ivory tower dwellers simply can't seem to comprehend. Whereas git-gappers are just selfish twats. I dealt with one recently on the Severn and he threw an absolute hissy fit about even the suggestion of moving up a bit. Luckily a scruffy boater next along came to my rescue and let me breast up to him for the night.
I can perfectly well comprehend the difficult situation they've got themselves into by ignoring the rules and building their life (kids, job, finances) around being able to stay in one place on the canals without paying, because when they're told to either move on or pay up they do have a big problem.
My sympathy for them is limited by the fact that this is a problem entirely of their own making.
My experience with git-gappers mirrors yours, the hissy-fitters are often on shiny boats (yes, I'm going to have one too next year...) and the helpful ones are often on scruffy ones -- very like people in general... 😉
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18 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:
We all have those irritations, even arriving at your intended VM to find it full with nose to tail boats is annoying, particularly if someone has had the temerity to moor a purple boat there. But it soon subsides when you find a realistic alternative.
If you want to annoy people leaving git gaps having a 35' boat is a good starting point.
I think owning a boat takes you to places that hiring a boat doesn't and you probably mellow in your attitude to other boaters over time, particularly when it exposes your own prejudices and blows apart your stereotypes (one of my favourite boats is actually purple and a dumper).
I'm not prejudiced against boats depending on how they look, some of the grottiest looking boats have the friendliest people in them and some of the shiniest boats have the biggest tw*ts. Oh dear, maybe that's reverse prejudice... 😉
(but I did say "some of" -- in other words, never judge a book by its cover)
Or people -- a good friend of mine used to be absolutely covered in tattoos and piercings with a shaved head but he really was one of the nicest guys you could hope to meet, I've genuinely seen him helping old ladies across the street. I've also met lots of well-groomed guys in smart suits who turned out to to amoral sh*ts, rather like some Tory politicians today...
(not Boris obviously, he's a scruffy amoral sh*t...)
12 minutes ago, PaulJ said:Ive often wondered that myself. Loads of space and greenery only a few miles out.
Its not that expensive for a tube ride in.
Do you often travel in London?
A return fare in from the suburbs in peak hours (needed for work) is around £10 a day (give or take a bit, depending on location), which is about £2000 per year.
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1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:
It still suprises me that Asda can pick, pack and deliver my shopping for the grand sum of £1.
It would cost me £12 in fuel alone to go to my nearest Asda.
It still surprises me that Hermes will come and collect my parcels (for delivery) for £1 when it would cost me £3 or £4 in fuel to take them to the drop-off point
The reason is that the costs (fuel and wages) are shared over a large number of deliveries.
It's far more eco-friendly for an Ocado/Asda/whatever van to drive round a circuit and deliver shopping to perhaps 50 people than it is for each of those people to drive to the nearest supermarket.
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2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:
I wonder how many working house owners expect to be able to have work so close to their house ?
Surely the vast, vast majority have to drive or train or bus to work ?
Can LOndon boaters not moor where they are allowed to moor and travel into work ?
After all the public transport situation in London is far better than much of the rest of the country.
Yes they could, but travelling in and out of London every day is expensive (thousands of pounds a year), and since the reason a lot of boaters live on the canals there (without paying for a mooring) is to save money...
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6 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:
We planned to put one of those water source ones in our boat, nearly signed the order when the guy said "where will you be using it ?" it turns out that above an imaginary line extended East & West (Wrexham, Birmingham, Leicester, the Wash), the sea is too cold and when you need heating the most you won't get any. Inland waters will no doubt be warmer than the sea but it is not a reliable source of heating so you would still need you SF stove or Eberspacher.
For cooling it would work well, but for the odd few days a year is it really a viable option ?
I looked into this extensively when designing my boat (no power problem since it's a hybrid with a massive 48V LFP battery bank) -- specifically, this (water-source) one...
https://www.advanceyacht.co.uk/marine-air-conditioning-units-all/p/frigomar-scu16vfd
Efficient as both a heater and aircon (~1kW maximum input power for ~5kW heating/cooling -- this is the biggest one, there are smaller cheaper ones too) and no inrush current, but not cheap.
What stopped me was that as Alan says it needs a minimum input water temperature of 5C so won't work all year round for heating on the canals, and also uses fresh water from the canal so you need an intake, mud box, worry about clogging up etc. -- also awkward to fit in the required air ducting in a narrowboat. So I'd also have needed a second heating system as well.
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3 minutes ago, Midnight said:
I agree and it's only going to get worse as the NBTA - the only boaters group with teeth - are encouraging the "Self-entitled" approach to mooring and not moving. Their recent statement is telling "This continued disregard for the people who live and work in these new ‘no mooring’ and proposed paid-for mooring areas drives boaters away from their livelihoods,"
Is that code for I want it all and don't want to pay for it?Yes 😞
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6 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:
No one pretends it's one big happy family but that's a long way from my issue which is that discord amongst boaters is something that is negative for all users.
Of course there are people that don't abide by the rules in any walk of life but they don't prevent most of us from doing what we want to do in life in general and the same is true on the canals. It's a more enclosed environment so perhaps it's more obvious on the canals but all you achieve by getting worked up about other people who aren't directly preventing you doing what you wish to do, is to spoil your own enjoyment.
The most likely reason you'll struggle to moor on any short stay VM - at least outside of London - is folk leaving git gaps.
I don't get worked up about it, when I'm out on the canals I just enjoy it -- but it's still irritating when you can't find a place to moor because of other people's selfishness and disregard for the rules. Git gaps annoy me too, and even more so when people give you the stink eye when you have the temerity to moor close up to them sharing a mooring ring. Or even worse, dare to suggest to them that they might move up a ring to make the git gap big enough for you to get into...
Of course some people are perfectly happy to do this if you ask nicely (which I always do), others seem to think it's an impossible imposition to suggest they might spend a few minutes untying their boat, moving it along twenty feet or so, and retying it... 😞
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10 hours ago, Captain Pegg said:
It's got nothing to do with your boat ownership status. You are telling others they are wrong if they believe there is no conflict between boaters in London but are doing so not from your boating experience but from your cycling experience. I don't think it's healthy for canal people in general to be split into factions which is why I brought it up. If your boat had been delivered but hadn't made it within the M25 it would be no different.
Maybe it's in the interpretation of what you meant by the word but it takes two to have a conflict. I know of people who have cruised through London, plus me who skirted the edges, who managed it without conflict. My observations of the bit I did, and other parts of the GU on which there are large numbers of moored boats, is that if those that don't really want to move stay tied to the bank they are a lot less bother to those on longer cruises than when they move begrudgingly.
There are of course other reasons why they shouldn't be allowed to stay tied to the bank, but those should be of interest to residents of the area concerned more than other boaters.
As a hire boater have you hung around Braunston's 48 hour and 14 day moorings to know that they are full of overstayers? I pitched up at the 14 day moorings once and found a spot with no problem; then left my boat there unattended for the next 16 days. Perhaps you clocked it. I also arrived there at 1930 on a Saturday evening four weeks ago and moored a 57' boat.
My genuine view of 14 day visitor moorings is that they are often sought by liveaboards who deliberately stay for 14 days. That's allowed so you can't argue. Same applies to Arthur who seems to think that if a boat is not occupied it isn't OK to leave it on such a mooring for 14 days.
I can't help thinking you see other boaters as a problem.
I see *some* other boaters as a problem, specifically the ones who ignore the rules about mooring and CCing, who block short-term and VMs from the use they're intended for, and prevent any kind of fair access for boaters in honeypot areas.
Regarding busy places like Braunston, of course I'm not saying there are never any mooring spaces, or that all boats don't move on as required -- but if I go past a place twice a week apart and the same boats are moored in exactly the same 48h mooring (which has happened many times when I've been looking to moor) the obvious reason is that they haven't moved.
In life generally there's a conflict of beliefs and attitudes and interests between those who generally believe in obeying the law and following rules and those who don't and will do anything they can get away with if it's to their advantage. The canals are no different, and no amount of pretending that boaters are one big happy family will change that... 😞
London boaters fight for moorings
in General Boating
Posted
Absolutely nothing, Peter got onto his usual "I luv 'spoons" hobby horse a few hours ago and is still riding it... 😉