IanD
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Posts posted by IanD
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1 hour ago, Hudds Lad said:
Dirty boy, hope the wind was in your favour
At least it was only a #1 -- think medieval castle... 😉
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5 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:
Narrowboat on a narrow canal. It wasn't a sensible place to be sat at all.
Indeed -- far too easy to fall off sideways, smack your head on the gunwale on the way into the water, and then end up in a fight with the propeller where there's only going to be one winner... 😞
Looking on the bright side, the remaining roof-sitter could then bring the boat to a halt and retrieve your mangled body...
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5 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:
Hand on the tiller. It wouldn't be that far away, no further and perhaps nearer than if you sit on the roof with your legs dangling into the hatch. Bums were at cabin top level, plus depth of cushion, with legs forward. I guess they might have had a stick with a collar but I doubt that would be necessary.
Was this a narrowboat? If so I'm not sure I'd want to sit on the roof like that on the narrow section either side of a hatch without a firmly attached backrest, and probably not even then -- there are times when seats on the roof work (see below) but that doesn't sound like one of them... 😉
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42 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:
In my experience few - if any - boats have fitted seats that are properly suitable for steering.
I can and sometimes do sit on the roof of Vulpes to steer but it makes access to the speed wheel awkward so only tends to work for a few minutes where there are few moored boats. It's also a trade-off of being relatively uncomfortable but a rest for the legs. Most steerers will use a cushion to stop the slide runners digging into their legs/arse.
One of the more bizarre things I ever saw was a couple who had his and hers forward facing seats on the cabin top either side of the hatch. They were sat there with their legs forward pootling along the canal. Noted the boat was from the Wey Navigation. Different breed.
I'm hoping mine will work for that (steering seat on top of bike locker) but won't know for sure until I try it... 😉
If the couple were sitting on the roof, how on earth did they steer the boat?
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29 minutes ago, haggis said:
No, no. The reason for the discussion on this thread is because the OP wanted information. It is therefore important that incorrect and misleading information should be corrected. I don't think anyone is saying that any stern layout doesn't have problems but some of us are fire fighting against the incorrect information being posted by you. This is not about point scoring, Ian, it is about trying to be helpful .
What incorrect information is that -- the one I already explained, or something else? 😉
The comments about rain (and your reply above) shows what I meant -- inside the rear hatch on a trad does get wet if you have to travel in heavy rain, and sometimes you can't just stay moored up but have to do this. It's not a killer issue, but it is a disadvantage that semi-trad and cruiser sterns don't have, they stay dry inside. But they have other disadvantages, as has been pointed out, and these can be bigger for some people -- especially when single-handing. As you say, it's important to be honest -- on both sides of any discussion.
And I made it clear that -- in spite of this -- I'd have a trad stern if I was a single-hander (subject of thread!), so you can hardly accuse me of being anti-trad... 😉
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1 hour ago, haggis said:
Not much rain gets in and any which does quickly evaporates. I don't see this as a disadvantage of a trad stern but a huge advantage!
You know when people accuse certain posters of being such fans of something -- like EVs -- that they refuse to acknowledge that they have *any* downsides?
That's what the trad stern fans on here are coming over as... 😉
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1 hour ago, Captain Pegg said:
Some water gets inside, mostly by dripping off your coat but it’s not a significant problem. Unless it absolutely hammers down in which case you’re likely to stop no matter what type of boat you’re steering. It works fine for that sort of miserable persistent rain we tend to get in this country.True, but sometimes you just need to carry on regardless of the bad weather -- less so if you're a liveaboard, but it still happens sometimes if you need to get somewhere -- for example, for an Xmas meetup, twice in my case -- and then the rain gets in. It's one of the disadvantages of a trad stern, all types have them as well as advantages... 😉
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9 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:
That shows the point nicely. No room on that counter for a steerer to operate the boat properly and safely in my opinion. @Lily Rose do you have a photo of yours you'd be willing to share?
(I'm aware there's a few photos of mine taken this past weekend now on social media where it's being steered correctly but I'm cleaning the cabin sides from the gunwales while underway 😱).
On that boat I agree there isn't room. On others (e.g. Lily Rose) there is. It all depends on the shape/taper/length of the stern and the length of the tiller.
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Just now, Lily Rose said:
The stern on the boat in in MJ_G's photo looks very similar to mne. My tiller, however, does not reach that far forward and leaves me room to stand immediately in front of it without having to step forward of the doors.
Like I said, different boats are different. Yours has room to stand there, many others (most trad sterns?) don't.
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1 minute ago, Captain Pegg said:
If I tried that on Vulpes I think I'd end up outside of the profile of the boat which is a really stupid place to be be while holding the tiller. Steering from the step is simple.
Like I said, it all depends on the shape of the stern -- I guess Vulpes has a short and tapered elliptical stern so it's quite narrow where the rear doors are? On some boats there's definitely enough width to stand "in the corner" safely, I've done it.
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2 hours ago, Mike Todd said:
Canals are not a place for a 'concerted plan' by anybody! However, I have seen that a growing number misrepresent 'The Rules' - 'I only have to move 20 miles a year' or more especially 'Im OK if I do 20 miles a year'. All that anyone can say is that The Board will not be convinced that a boater doing a range of less than 20 miles is engaged in a bona fide navigation., nor by someone who does all of their 20 miles en bloc in a week of the school holidays. There are certainly those who know when and where they need to be to 'get clocked'.
That said, the greater proportion of liveaboards are those who know and respect and comply with what they see as The Rules and any personalised adaptation for individual circumstances.
Evidence, please... 😉
There are certainly areas -- like the one under discussion -- where your statement doesn't seem to be true, even if it is over the whole system...
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4 minutes ago, Lily Rose said:
The stern looks pretty standard to me.
The tiller is the one that came with the boat, again it looks pretty standard to me though I have also seen longer ones. I can only assume plenty of other folk have a similar length tiller judging by the number of people I see standing in the same position.
So if you have enough room on your boat, then stand there. Other boats are different and there's no space to do this, including several that I've been on, and @Captain Pegg. YMMV... 😉
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3 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:
It's not so much the risk of being wiped off the counter as that you can't actually steer the boat properly from that position. To pull the tiller hard over toward you would in general mean first steering the opposite way so you can access the position you should have been in all along or otherwise taking to the gunwale.
I'm confused -- surely if you're standing next to the tiller you can just step to the left or the right and take the tiller with you? Yes if you need to pull it hard to port you end up in the front corner next to the gunwale, but then if you're standing on the step you have to push it across behind you and change hands which is just as awkward, and you might not be able to push it as far over either. I've never had any big problem steering from either position, but I certainly wouldn't stand alongside the tiller in a lock...
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Just now, cuthound said:
Yes far too many modern trads have the floor inside the hatches too low to stand on and see properly over the cabin. I solved this on mine by making a wide tool box, which doubles up as a steering step.
Given the things some boats have on their roofs like plants and piles of junk, even that isn't going to help them see "properly over the cabin" -- I was nearly hit head-on by a boat like this a few years back who obviously couldn't see a damn thing over their roof jungle, including an oncoming boat... 😞
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Just now, Lily Rose said:
But even your "corrected" version, with the word stern added, is simply not true. I've been standing directly in front of my tiller, outside the trad stern doors and not in the arc of the tiller, for the last 8 years (I really must sit down now!) with no problem whatsoever. I've also seen many other people doing exact same thing.
So either you're not properly explaining what you mean or you are wrong.
Then you must have a longer trad stern or a shorter tiller than any of the trad stern boats (or semi-trad) I've been on, where the tiller pretty much reaches the doors.
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3 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:
I'd say "...should stand inside the doors..." rather than "...can stand inside the doors..." on a trad.
An old style trad will always have a step for the purpose of standing on to steer. Not all modern trads have them because the engine box cover can double up as a step.
I cringe when I see folk on a trad stood to one side of the counter alongside the tiller.
Not arguing that it's good practice -- but is there really any significant risk when going ahead?
Going astern or in a lock, absolutely, don't do it, people have been killed. But AFAIK there's no recorded case of anyone doing this being killed or injured by the tiller swinging over when going ahead. Or is there? 😉
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1 minute ago, cuthound said:
Because you said so. "I should also point out that on a cruiser stern you can stand or sit safely forward of the arc of the tiller, on a trad you can't."
See above -- my fault for not being clear what I meant 🙂
And if somebody had asked if that was what I really meant instead of doing the usual "he's an idiot" sniping, I'd probably have responded less strongly and the whole argument could have been avoided... 😉
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27 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:
Because of what you posted at 1559 yesterday which other posters - myself included - clearly read as suggesting that you can't stand in front of the tiller on a trad.
Perhaps you'd like to clarify what you meant?
Aha -- do you mean where I said this?
"I should also point out that on a cruiser stern you can stand or sit safely forward of the arc of the tiller, on a trad (stern) you can't."
-- (stern) added just now...
What I meant by "on a (cruiser) stern" was "outside on the stern deck", but I now realise that wasn't clear -- of course with a trad stern you can stand inside the doors or sit on the roof (but not always *on* the stern* outside, which is what I meant), and I've often done both. So apologies if this caused misunderstanding... 🙂
You can also sometimes tuck into the front port corner at the edge of the stern and have enough space for the tiller to swing past you, depending on the exact shape/size of the stern, length of tiller, and girth and arm length of steerer -- for example I can do this but SWMBO can't...
When going ahead and cruising there's very little risk when standing alongside the tiller, as many boaters do -- anything which hits the tiller is very unlikely to knock it sideways enough to throw you overboard. But when going astern or in a lock the risk is much bigger, and I think it's under these circumstances when the fatalities referred to above happened, and led to the coining of the term "suicide seats". Wasn't this also suspected as contributing to the death in Harecastle Tuneel?
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1 hour ago, haggis said:
Thanks Ian for making me smile 😀
Glad to be of service 🙂
For the record, I've probably spent a total of a couple of months or so on trad-sterned boats over the years -- liveaboard and hired, ranging from a trad-engined riveted 72', one with a Bolinder, a steamer, and several hire boats -- and all were usually steered from inside the rear doors, or sometimes from the stern outside the arc of the tiller if there was room. And if I was a single boater, I'd have a trad stern -- but I'm not, so I prefer something different... 😉
Over the last 40 years I've probably also tried out more different types of boats than many posters, including most types of hull, stern, propulsion, layout, toilets, beds, heating, fitout, decor -- and they all have advantages and disadvantages for different people, there's no "perfect" solution, everyone needs to decide what is best for them. Which is probably not what I would choose, and that's absolutely fine... 🙂
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1 minute ago, system 4-50 said:
Ditch the dog. Nobody needs a dog. Find a partner instead if you need the company, there are plenty available. Just compare the two options:
Food
D - Simple tastes.
P - More fussy but can cook yours for you.
Exercise
D - Must be done every day, rain or shine.
P - Can be done anytime you are both in the mood.
Poo
D - Fouls the universe which even with pickup is not left clean.
P - Poos in the bathroom but occupies it for more time than you would believe possible.
Hair
D - Leaves it everywhere
P - Requires expensive haircuts which must be admired.
Locks
D - Provides something to trip over when going to set the locks.
P - Tells you the trip is over 5 locks before you want to stop.
When Wet
D - Smells
P - Yells (its your fault its raining).
Steering
D - Demands excessive bank-visiting practice.
P - Very useful when you want a change.
Boat Design
D - Requires that you plan carefully the layout of the boat.
P - Tells you what you want the layout of the boat to be.
Stern
D - Complicated
P - Cruiser, obviously
You missed out the obvious one... 😉
Cost
D -- Expensive
P -- *Really* expensive
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26 minutes ago, cuthound said:
I think we already know the answer to that. 😉
You really shouldn't guess things you don't know about... 😉
Why do you think I haven't seen -- or steered -- one -- actually, several -- where you can stand in front of the tiller?
I get really tired of the CWDF "I know better than you" brigade sometimes, especially when this is based on zero evidence or knowledge... 😞
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16 hours ago, Adam Mc Gowan said:
Hi Ian, based on your advice would this model and amperage breaker be correct for 430w of solar?
https://generalpower.lk/product/tomzn-63-a-2pole-1000v-dc-mcb/
Something like that would certainly do the job, it's rated to carry and break DC -- but the voltage rating is overkill, to say the least... 😉
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17 hours ago, blackrose said:
Yes I understand all of that and never said or implied anything to the contrary. If my previous post made no sense to you perhaps that's because you misunderstood it.
This is what I've been advised: Solar panel input voltage must be at least 5v above the battery voltage to start pumping charging current into the battery bank. So, around 18v or so.
Once the MPPT switches on, it then only requires the input to remain at least 1v above the battery voltage.
Therefore a *series* panel connection (which will have a higher total voltage than a parallel connection) will naturally reach 18v as the sun comes up sooner than a parallel connection. And vice versa in the evening. Hence, the higher overall solar harvest from a series connection.
Also I've no idea where the idea comes from that Tracer MPPT units won't start charging until panel voltage reaches 1A? It's nonsense.
So long as the panel maximum power voltage is significantly above the maximum battery voltage -- and 5V may or may not be enough, depending on the MPPT controller -- there's little power yield advantage having much higher voltage than this, though it does mean thinner cables can be used.
A solar panel is -- as I said -- a big silicon photodiode, and I work with these on a daily basis. They generate a current which is proportional to light level, but the voltage (and MPPT maximum power voltage voltage) doesn't vary much with this, only the current. For example, if you have a 100W panel rated at 20V 10A for maximum power, as soon as any light hits it the voltage will be close to this but the current will be small -- see attached plot.
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16 hours ago, Captain Pegg said:
I’m amazed you are the only person that seems to have picked that up. Most folk probably rolled their eyes at the little spat and scrolled past the detail of the posts.I’ve never seen a trad stern where you can’t stand in front of the arc of the tiller. The place that’s specifically provided for standing to steer is in front of the arc of the tiller. Obviously you can’t legislate for those folk that stand outside the hatch - and unfortunately they do exist - but I’m guessing @IanD may never have steered a trad.
You're guessing wrong -- I have, several of them... 😉
(and semi-trads, and cruisers (brrr...) -- and even a so-called "semi-cruiser" which I didn't like at all, especially getting on and off...)
If I was boating single-handed I'd have a trad stern. Since I plan to be boating with my wife -- and often with a couple of guests -- I went for a more sociable semi-trad, but done properly (many aren't) so the seats are comfortable to sit on. The "steerer's seat" (rearmost port side inside the semi-trad part) is higher than normal to make it better for steering from, and give lockable storage space for a folding bike. But I doubt you'd find any boats out there like this... 😉
Best Stern for Single Handed
in New to Boating?
Posted
In its place, which is on the Thames. I'm sure it has many canal traditionalists (bow thrusters are the work of the devil!) cringing in horror though -- but they're not the owners, who I gather are extremely happy with it... 😉