IanD
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Posts posted by IanD
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2 minutes ago, M_JG said:
Well it would be if it was correct. But unfortunately it isn't.
Popcorn time... 🙂
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24 minutes ago, gatekrash said:
We've arrived back at Droitwich this morning. Total trip for us by the time we diverted down to Worcester for a day and back up the W&B was 305 miles, 262 locks.
Interestingly when we planned it Canalplan (with our defaults tweaked to match our locking average speed) reckoned that it should have taken us 156.5 hours, our engine hours on arrival back show that the total trip took us 154 hours, so pretty accurate!
Anything particularly useful or interesting to report? 🙂
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10 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:
Centre cockpit with wheel steering is nothing new, this is 1987 Narrowboats for sale UK, used narrow boats, new narrowboat sales, free photo ads - Center Cockpit - Apollo Duck
It's nothing new especially on shorter older boats like the one pictured (37') or GRP ones, but was never common on narrowboats, especially long ones (60'? 72'?) like the one under discussion.
Like GRP cabins on steel hulls they were not popular even then and are out of favour now, for very good reasons... 😉
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Just now, David Mack said:
Some years ago in Bristol we moored alongside a couple on a typical square-arsed widebeam. They were liveaboards with the usual collection of potted shrubbery on the roof. Chatting to them over a beer in the evening they said they had come from the Thames, and were about to head for Sharpness to take up a mooring on the Severn or Avon.
Next morning we watched them set off for Cumberland Lock, with the woman, who was far too short to see over the shrubbery, darting from side to wheel to other side to wheel to see where she was going, while partner offered unhelpful observations. If they were like this in the open water of the Floating Harbour, I wonder how on earth they managed canal locks and bridges!
<crash>...
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Just now, Rob-M said:
That is fine if the crew is capable of crossing lock gates but if they aren't and only work the towpath side paddle and gate then the steerer has to be able to easily get off the boat to work the offside. This is the situation in our case. Plus I steer and work the lock the boat is in whilst my wife sets ahead generally meaning we work a lock flight in an efficient manner.
Agreed, I'm quite happy to step across a narrow lock from an open gate to a closed one, but many aren't.
However you do it, three people is easier than two -- which is *much* easier than one... 😉
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On 26/05/2023 at 19:04, David Mack said:
Osmosis?
Delamination?
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Just now, matty40s said:
If that is the case, why do they run from side to side whilst steering, or have one crew each side and another at the front waving frantically.
Either because they're incompetent, or the wheel's on one side and they can't see down the other, or the wheel's in the middle and they can't see down either side...
Of course with a wheel you can let go and walk from side to side without the boat veering off-line, as we were told when we picked up the boat -- always assuming you've got the rudder centred in the first place, which isn't easy when all you've got is a small indicator pointer on top of the rudder stock, and this is behind you under the table, and you're going slowly. DAMHIK... 😞
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6 minutes ago, matty40s said:
It looks like there are hinges to the rear panel on the forward edge, so I believe the back end can be opened up.
All the new Aqualines and Collingwood widebeams with steering wheels have a tiller socket at the back.
As did the widebeam from Bear Boating we hired (and hated) a couple of years ago -- needed just in case the steering gear fails.
At least they're all steered from the stern though, so you can see what the entire boat is doing while looking ahead...
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30 minutes ago, enigmatic said:
Not being able to just get the stern in and sort the rest of the boat out with a centre line must make mooring and stopping at lock landings a lot more hassle, especially on windy days or less-than-perfectly-straight banks
Indeed, but probably not as much hassle as having thirty feet of boat a*se-end hanging out behind you when you're manoeuvring and bashing into things -- bridges, lock entrances, other boats...
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15 minutes ago, Rob-M said:
I find going up or down Wolverhampton with two of us very easy but find the Delph a real pain as there is nowhere to get on or off below the lock gates, you can climb up and over the railings on some of the locks but not many so end up having to pull in to the towpath. With a crew of three or more, where a steerer can stay on the boat, then no issues.
With a crew of two the steerer can stay on the boat at Delph and the other can work the locks on their own, but it's harder work. Still not as hard as doing this on heavy wide locks like on the Soar though... 😉
Two on the bank makes for lighter work, and you can send one ahead to set the next lock while the other waits for the boat to come up and closes the lock behind it.
Three on the bank is perfect, two at the current lock and one to go ahead -- that's how we got through both flights so quickly 🙂
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11 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:
We know only one thing about the OP and that is they want to do the Black Country Ring.In which case they either know they'll be happy doing plenty of locks -- in which case, via the S&W is no problem either -- or they haven't cottoned on to how many there are, in which case an out-and-back is a safer choice.
You can't argue both ways -- unless you just want to argue for the sake of it... 😉
Let's see what response to all the comments the OP comes back with before speculating too much on what they might or might not want to do or are capable of doing... 🙂
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If the OP is uncertain about how much progress they might make and especially how many locks are too many, from Great Haywood they could go south on the Staffs and Worcs and aim for Stourport if they have enough stamina (92m/82l/47h), but can turn back at any point before that where they decide they're half-way. Plenty of nice places to moor and less time pressure...
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4 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:
I think there are plenty of attractions on the ring. It just depends what you like. Towns & cities to visit include: Birmingham, Wolverhampton, Lichfield, Rugeley, Tamworth. Days out to Shugborough, BCLM + Dudley Tunnel, Drayton Manor.
I'm not sure that some of those towns and cities would be seen as particularly attractive places to visit by many people, unless you're into concrete brutalism... 😉
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12 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:
The key thing with these threads is to read (between the lines if necessary) what the OPs thoughts and concerns are and not try and plan them the holiday that you would want for yourself.
For a crew of unknown size - possibly two - that has apparently only done four locks at best in their lives the addition of 16 locks to the itinerary that already has 79 if my memory is correct isn’t insignificant.A large and experienced crew will have no problem with Delph and Stourbridge particularly if there are volunteers present, although how frequent that is I don’t know as I’ve never encountered any at these locations.
Indeed I have no problem with them on my own, but in combination I do find them more challenging in terms of effort than most narrow lock flights.
One advantage they may have is that I’ve never found them devoid of water but couldn’t say the same for Wolverhampton.
Agreed, but I think people are assuming than anyone choosing to do the Black Country ring can't be very lock-averse... 😉
If there's any uncertainly about ability and lock-stamina then a plan with plenty of spare time and even the possibility of turning round and going back rather than having to complete a ring is a good idea. But the basic ring (not via the Staffy) is well under 40 hours cruising which most people would think is not much for a week in summertime, unless you only want to spend a few hours per day cruising.
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21 minutes ago, matty40s said:
I am wondering if the roof bit of the back end comes off, or lifts up, both to sit out and maybe a tiller insert??
If you zoom in on the photo the back panel looks to be solidly constructed from steel, so unlikely -- but maybe there's a roof hatch over the opening side door so you can get out there? If not, getting on and off from the centre wheel position would be a trip hazard, assuming you could get it in to the bank.
If you had a tiller at the stern (with space for it!) why on earth have wheel steering from midships?
The only reason I can think of that is whoever designed the boat -- like Whitefield? -- had little or no experience of steering a long narrow boat on narrow canals, and assumed that what works on open waters -- where maybe they did have experience, and were familiar with centre wheel steering? -- would also work well there.
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1 hour ago, Captain Pegg said:
I don't think it's hugely important which way you go round but perhaps if going clockwise the choice between via Wolverhampton or Stourton can be done based on time as much as preference since it will fall in the second half of the week rather than on the first or second full day.
The only thing I'd say about doing the Stourton route is that the 24 locks of the Delph and Stourbridge flights together is hard work - the flights are less than an hour apart and no recognised mooring sites in between. They are deep locks and take some effort for a small crew, more so than the Wolverhampton 21 and of course you've then got another 15 or 16 additional locks to get back to Aldersley Junction. One advantage is that Merry Hill moorings are very close to Delph top lock and you are quickly into nice surroundings below Stourbridge bottom, or alternatively the bottom of the arm.
We found the Stourbridge and Delph flights unusually easy when we (with four on board) did them, only about 2 hours (helped by a volocky) to go up Stourbridge and 1 hour up Delph. Stourbridge Town Wharf to Withymoor Island was done easily in a day, even allowing for a very long lunchtime at the Bull & Bladder... 😉
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37 minutes ago, David Mack said:
That route is not the route via the Trent being discussed - probably because Canalplan's default settings discourage use of tidal rivers.
If the prospect of tidal water puts you off the Trent, then this is a viable alternative route. Note that it takes you along the Huddersfield Narrow Canal, which involves passage through Standedge Tunnel. While this is an experience not to be missed, passage has to be booked in advance, there are only a limited number of passages and there are dimensional restrictions which your boat may or may not meet. Alternatives would be to take the same route to the northwest, then cross the Pennines via the Rochdale or Leeds & Liverpool canals.
The route via the Leeds and Liverpool is longer than via the HNC but with fewer locks, and doesn't have the Standedge restrictions. With my Canalplan speed settings I get this, but this is based on having 4 on board so you'll be slower in locks, which means the L&L route will probably be quicker and certainly less effort for you than the HNC:
Via Trent : 237 miles 111 locks 89 hours
Via HNC : 204 miles 194 locks 104 hours
Via L&L : 246 miles 147 locks 107 hours
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3 hours ago, Francis Herne said:
Tixall Wide has been suggested a few times. I agree, apart from the geese waking me up at 5am every time, but mooring is restricted until 14th July due to towpath works:
May not be an issue depending on the date of the trip.
I'll third the suggestion that via Stourton is a more interesting journey although a bit longer. If you're going that way definitely visit Ma Pardoe's, mooring either at Withymoor by arrangement (visited this weekend, very friendly as always) or the Bumble Hole visitor moorings.
If timings work (e.g. lunchtime) you could also moor in the little side arm just above Delph bottom lock and walk up to the Vine (Bull and Bladder), the legendary Batham's brewery tap...
3 hours ago, Francis Herne said:Tixall Wide has been suggested a few times. I agree, apart from the geese waking me up at 5am every time, but mooring is restricted until 14th July due to towpath works:
May not be an issue depending on the date of the trip.
I'll third the suggestion that via Stourton is a more interesting journey although a bit longer. If you're going that way definitely visit Ma Pardoe's, mooring either at Withymoor by arrangement (visited this weekend, very friendly as always) or the Bumble Hole visitor moorings.
Bumble Hole is a lot further to walk to Ma Pardoe's and less secure than Withymoor, we had a lifebelt nicked there in the past but maybe that wasn't typical.
If timings work (e.g. lunchtime) you could also moor in the little side arm just above Delph bottom lock and walk up to the Vine (Bull and Bladder), the legendary Batham's brewery tap... 🙂
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1 minute ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:
No, I'm suggesting that, if the draught when up on the plane is less, surely they can go into the shallower waters?
So long as they never slow down and drop off the plane...
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2 minutes ago, M_JG said:
Now then....
As you have spent the last 48 hours complaining about Nick claiming you have said things you havent can you please show me where have come close to suggesting that?
It would work though... 😉
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3 minutes ago, M_JG said:
Yes. Extra caution is required.
And eyes in the back of your head. And the ability to tell which way the rudder is pointing by intuition or looking at a dial, not just by where the tiller is in your hand.
Lots of disadvantages, and no real advantages that I can see -- though surely there must be some, otherwise nobody would build a boat like this... 😉
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2 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:
Nah, joystick controlled fly-by-wire is the future ....
Whitefield... 😞
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27 minutes ago, M_JG said:
Surely it's no different to steering a (rather long) centre cockpit cabin cruiser?
I'm no fan of wheel steering but just watch what the back end is doing whilst manoeuvring.
The problem is that on relatively narrow canals/bridges/locks you need to watch what both ends are doing, and given that most people only have eyes in the front of their heads this is a lot harder -- especially for a long narrowboat -- than steering from the stern. Even more so with a wheel which unlike a tiller gives no direct feedback of which way the tiller is pointing and which way the rudder is pushing the stern -- which is also harder to keep track of because that's not where you're standing, it's thirty feet behind you on a boat like this.
Wheel steering and especially from a central position is fine for shorter boats (like cabin cruisers) in less constricted waters (rivers/estuaries/the sea), but tiller steering from the stern is better suited to narrowboats on the narrow English canals. In my opinion... 😉
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3 minutes ago, GUMPY said:
Simple answer to the signal is raise a Blue Flag or show a Blue Board
I bet even fewer boaters on the canals know this than the sound signals -- and the number of boats who have said blue board or flag is smaller still. Probably zero... 😉
Crick show reports?
in General Boating
Posted · Edited by IanD
I think I can guess which stall that was, and if so their numbers don't add up, just like they didn't when one of their guys left the forum in a huff when challenged about them a couple of years ago...
A realistic power audit for an electric narrowboat for a typical day of normal-speed cruising (including moored boats and locks) comes out around 14kWh for propulsion -- this is not just calculation but is backed up by real tests on multiple boats (e.g. the Ortomarine trial and others). The biggest solar array you can get on a narrowboat will yield about 7kWh/day on average in summer, which is half a day's cruising -- to fill in the gap you need to run a generator for about an hour a day on average (or two hours every other day, or three hours every 3 days if you have a big enough battery bank).
Note that this ignores domestic use, like induction hob/electric oven/toaster/microwave/fridge/freezer/washer, which such boats are inevitably fitted with, which is typically another couple of kWh/day. And then the typical static power drain for the inverter and things like MPPTs/router is another couple of kWh/day -- so now we're up to maybe 18kWh/day. Yes I've looked into this in detail, while not wearing rose-tinted glasses... 😉
Of course if you go slower than most diesel boats then you use less power because this goes up as the cube of speed, but most people (except "dawdlers" -- see other thread) don't want to travel at "passing moored boats" speed on the open canal. Or if you only travel a few hours per day -- or all day every few days -- then solar alone might keep up in summer (but don't forget the domestic power).
But pretending that you can use an electric narrowboat and cruise like you can on a diesel boat and only need solar in summer is being economical with the truth, to say the least... 😞