Scholar Gypsy
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Posts posted by Scholar Gypsy
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Hi All
I'm hoping to do the trip from Limehouse to Brentford this coming Saturday 17th August. 60ft narrowboat.
Looking at the recommended times and tides I think that about 6.30 am looks about right.
1. Anybody know if I've got that wrong?
2. Anybody going around that time to make a convoy?
All advice/help gratefully received.
Cheers in advance,
Bob
Bob
High tide (edit: London Bridge) is 1030 (BST), so 0700 from Limehouse will be about right.
If you go too much earlier you are likely to arrive at Brentford before the locks open (at 0930) - hardly a disaster! (edit: HW Brentford is at 1130).
Enjoy!
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Could you explain this a little more? I for one, don't know the dangers of a cill upon entering a lock with low pound levels....so appreciate some tuition please
The earlier links to incidents on the Huddersfield contain the photos, but basically, if you are travelling downhill
- the top lock gate of the next lock is open
- the water level in the pound above the lock is low
- the bows of the boat go into the lock OK, but the stern runs aground on the cill (NBs will normally have a deeper draught at the stern than the bow)
- you then realise that the bottom gates of the lock are leaking badly, so the water level continues to drop
- the stern of the boat is then really stuck
- and the bows start to go down & down.
- all you can do is run back to the previous lock and open paddles at both ends of the lock, and hope the flow coming down is more than the leakage.
and a similar thing can happen if you are going uphill, with the water level a bit lower so that the boat runs aground just as the bows leave the lock.
In each case if less than half of the boat is aground and more than half is downstream of the cill, then as the water level drops the boat is at risk of tipping over / sinking.
1) Enter the lock as fast as possible - if necessary ram the gates to assist your entrance especially if bystanders are sitting on the balance beam. This will let them know that you're about to work the lock and they should stand clear.
2) If you're going downhill make sure you place the stern of the boat over the white lines at the back of the lock. These lines are there to help you position the boat. You should make sure that your rudder is well behind the lines.
3) Going downhill, remember to tie up as tight as possible before opening the paddles. This will assist the floatation of your boat.
4) Going uphill, position the boat right at the front of the lock. Open the gate paddles first as fast as possible, keeping the bow of the boat directly under the jets of water that come through the gates. This will keep the well deck nice and clean. If you open the gate paddles fast enough you won't even need to bother with the ground paddles which are an old fashioned and have become obsolete thanks to the invention of gate paddles.
5) Before using a lock keep your head down and try to ignore any other boaters who may be approaching. If you do happen to notice other boats approaching do not communicate or stare at them - this is seen as highly threatening behaviour on the canals. Instead pretend you didn't see them and start working the lock for your boat. This is especially true if you happen to see a boat coming in the other direction and the lock is set so that the other boat could easily use the lock without first emptying or filling it. In this case quickly close the gates and start filling or emptying the lock. Don't worry, this is the accepted etiquette for claiming a lock for your boat.
6) Lastly, do everything as fast as possible while working a lock. Running around locks and over lock gates is great exercise, so let your kids and dogs do as they wish. Locks are not dangerous places.
Going uphill, an alternative to point 4) is to make sure the rear fender is positioned between the bottom gates before opening the paddles. This will protect the gates from banging together when the paddles are opened. And on point 6) it is of course perfectly easy to jump across a 7' lock, avoiding lock gates completely.
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Coincidentally, I am doing exactly the same thing with my boat in a couple of weeks - and their first locks will be Hillmorton.
In addition to all the good points raised above (BTW the hard copy and video versions of the handbook are here), I have told the lendee to tie up a few hundred yards before they get to the locks, and spend half an hour just watching other people work though.
Cautionary tale on the point above about low water levels. and a more recent one here.
Simon
PS here is the extract from our boat handbook on the subject of locks.. There are comments elsewhere on the subject of fenders.
· No running
· Never leave a windlass in place after opening a paddle
· Hold on tight when crossing a lock
· Stand well back from the edge
· Take care getting on and off the boat. Do not get on or off the boat when it is going past lock gates.
· Keep the boat well clear of gates and (especially when going downhill) cills
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As mark99 says.
It's only fully tidal during the draw-offs when the shutters at Richmond are not lowered to retain navigable depth above the lock there.
Unless you're fairly experienced and conversant with that section of the Thames it is not a thing I'd recommend.
Tam
If anyone wants to see that stretch with no water in, here are the dates for the 2013 draw-offs:
http://www.pla.co.uk/notice2mariners/pdf/M31_of_2013_-_Richmond_Lock___Weir_-_Draw-Off_2013.pdf
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Ditto our Mitsubishi: we added an extra filter between the tank and the pump (electric Vetus, with its own filter inside, so we now have three fuel filters..).
I have been musing for a while about the practicality of installing a permanent fuel polishing circuit - for example a second pump pumping fuel through a filter (or maybe just a sedinenter) and then back into the other half of the tank (my tank is in two halves, with the filler on the left side and the fuel takeoff on the right). Not sure what a boat safety examiner would make of that...
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Here are some articles on Wikipedia on gyrocompasses (NB not to be confused with gyroscopes, though the article does I think risk that confusion) and on fluxgate compasses.
The latter still need correction to take account of the impact of the boat's hull on the local magnetic field. Another website I found noted that fluxgate compasses are often hidden away below decks, and this can be fun if eg tins of food are stored nearby and roll about in bad weather. Also be careful where you put your boombox or any other device with loudspeakers. And note that the deviation chart needs to be redone after a lightning strike (see other recent threads)....
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Worth noting that (according to the PLA's 2012 annual report) there were 38 "navigational incidents of note" last year.
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There are a number of handbooks and guides on the Environment Agency website:
http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/homeandleisure/recreation/133183.aspx
The first one looks the most useful - see page 7 or so onwards. I don't think this is on the website that the Dog House is referring to.
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Blockage now cleared, according to email from Waterscape: "The obstruction which had been put in the canal has been
removed by the third party and the canal is open to navigation." -
The ecoblast air horn is effective - and no refills to worry about, as you just fill it up again using the small bicycle pump supplied.
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M
Hello Ray.
My answer was directed at Phylis, who said very few boats have clear 360 degrees view at the helm. Mine has, meaning 'no blind spots' and so has nearly every other narrowboat on the inland waterways.
Why on earth would anyone, even on the tidal Thames need four people on look out on a narrowboat. I had 180 degrees and so had my partner. It's easy enough to look behind you. I had no mirrors on my motorbike but I could still look behind me.
I think the point others are making - and I would agree - is that even with a standard NB steering position, out in the open, it is quite feasible to not be able to see a canoe, or a swimmer, ten feet (say) dead ahead of your bow.
That's unlikely to be a problem in most circumstances, whether on a canal, river, or a tideway -- for example if one is catching up a slow canoe, then you will be able to see them before they disappear into the blind slot -- but I do believe it is a risk that needs to be kept in mind.
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Is that a depth charge or a mine you are carrying on your deck?
I'm not surprised he gave you a wide berth.......
It's a BBQ, for use after the annual St Pancras Easter Cruise to the Fox at Hanwell.
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Timings can also help - eg it is 0.8 nm from Tower Bridge to Wapping police station, and then the same distance again to Limehouse, Typically a bit under ten minutes for each segment.
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I agree with the previous posting by larryjc. I would also add that in my experience one needs to behave differently when meeting
- passenger trip boats - as noted earlier these regularly turn round, overtake, switch sides, stop at piers, break away from piers, tie up at their moorings, and so on. The safest plan (as Colregs say and as noted above) is for a narrowboater is to maintain a confident, steady course and speed, while not getting too close to the right hand bank (for example if you are too far to the right when going upstream through Tower Bridge then you cause problems for boats using Tower Pier). In my experience trip boats will navigate around you safely.
- large commercial vessels - eg a tug and three barges on its way to Wandsworth (photo below). Here they are taking a steady course and speed, and cannot slow down without losing control, and you should keep out of the way. So for example I was recently crewing on a narrowboat approaching Albert Bridge - where there is only one upstream arch. We saw a tug coming up from behind and the white isophase light flashing on the bridge. We did not fancy going through the bridge at the same time as the tug, so I got on the radio and asked if the tug wanted to go through first. If he had said yes we would have turned around to starboard (4+1 blast), and stemmed the tide until he had gone past me (passing starboard to starboard) before turning again to continue upstream. As it happens he said no, as he was slowing down anyway before stopping at Battersea.
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We have tried to write up what we have learnt here: http://www.thamescruising.co.uk/wordpress/?page_id=296
The handheld / fixed vhf radio question has been debated here several times, well worth using search and having a read as there is no one right answer. We went for a fixed set based on advice from London VTS, for us it was the right decision but then we got a handheld for talk on other channels and back-up - I find tri-watch too hard to use effectively somewhere as busy as the Thames.
That siad there are some very very clever handhelds out there, love the way that the Cobra can be paired with a mobile phone. Some (is it the horizon) have gps built in, I want one with AIS built in! One day.
An opportunity for another plug for my portable fixed set: a second hand fixed set from Ebay, speaker and aerial cost less than the handheld!
It has been used on three different boats so far this year (Limehouse to Brentford, Limehouse to Teddington, Limehouse to Gravesend & back), and is on the lookout for more boats to travel on. It can pick up London VTS in Reading (though they couldn't hear me...)
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I find it very handy to have a thin line running along the roof from the stern, joined to the bow rope.
Then, for example, when going uphill I can climb up a ladder holding (eg) stern rope and said thin line, tie off stern, and then walk to bows and pull the bow rope up. Much easier to handle than a 25m full size rope.
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I would invest in a cheap multimeter that will tell you which is +ve.
When we had our boat stretched (the second time) the extension to the cable to the horn had the wires connected back to front. It took me a while to work this out, when I next replaced the horn - it mattered as the chassis of the horn was bolted to the steelwork, and so the negative wire had to go to the chassis as well.
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deploy anchor 'dont throw' let out chain and rode then set anchor by having boat pull on it till it holds vessel. Other wise you might just drag anchor and end up shallow on on hill then you will have big problem if you drifted during high tide and water recedes while your sleeping
I think we are confusing two scenarios here:
* a controlled stop, where you would turn into the tide/current, bring the boat to a stop, lower the anchor, and then back away in the way you describe. Most narrow boats would struggle to do that (or to moor to the bank safely) in a 7 knot current - see earlier posts
* a sudden engine failure while you are doing 7 knots over the ground going though Cannon St railway bridge (which is not unusual). Unless there is another boat very close to you who can get a line to you, you have to chuck the anchor over the side, keep all limbs out of the way, and brace for a rather sudden stop....
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Me neither - but it's quite common to be doing 6 or 7 knots over the ground: 4 kts through the water plus 2-3 kts tide.
I wouldn't be out on the water if it was travelling at 6kts
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That's true, but I wouldn't like to try paying out rope by hand when travelling at 6 knots over the ground: just chuck the anchor over the side and get out of the way ...
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That will be more than enough - if anything a bit too long, especially if you have an engine failure close to a bridge....
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Glad to hear you had a good time!
Here's a plug: at 1030 on Saturday 20th July at the IWA National Festival at Cassio Park, Watford, there is a presentation on “Safe and enjoyable tideway cruising”.
It features Andrew Phasey from St Pancras Club, David Phillips of the PLA (his name is at the bottom of all their notices), and Sue of Indigo Dream (RichardN's better half).
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Have a good trip! You might like to check this PLA notice re Battersea railway bridge.
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We are planning to go from Limehouse to Teddington next Saturday. To be honest I'm cackin meself. Have I good reason? Getting life jackets today, anchor up and running, engine sorted but still worried about it.
Dear Fudd
I have done this trip several times as an experienced crew (with radio etc), which I think reduces stress levels for the skipper concerned! I may be able to do next Saturday - we would need to leave Limehouse about 1015 (BST). If you are interested please email me on sg (at) judgefamily.org.uk
Quandary about Thames passage
in General Boating
Posted · Edited by Scholar Gypsy
It's 16 miles from Limehouse to Brentford, so (for most narrow boats) there is no way you will get there in two hours if you leave only an hour before HW London Bridge. The incoming tide will then be pretty weak, and will overtake you before long. You will then struggle to get to Brentford before the locks shut, or even worse find yourself going backwards ...
I find it takes 2hrs 45mins to Brentford, with nice steady engine revs (in itself preferable to thrashing the engine), leaving 2.5 or 3hrs before HWLB.
Good luck!