John Orentas

None of the pipework should be 'buried in the insulation'. All parts of the pipework should be accessible for routine examination. There is no requirement to make a seal where the piping passes through a bulkhead, nor does the pipe need to be continuous. The recommended grommet is to protect the pipe from abrasion. John Squeers

Paul. I agree with very little of what you say. You rather missed the point of Mikes original thread. It is that you will drastically reduce the number of connections in the cabin areas. It is not only CORGI fitters who understand the dangers of gas, most competant people will have a good understanding of what is required in a gas installation. The Boat Examiner is just that, an examiner he has taken a two week course. The installation standards are very well set out in the 'Guide Book', it is well written and easily understandable. If the gas installation has been carried out competantly, the inspector will pass it. He does not need to be involved at any stage other than to carry out his test and inspection. John Squeers

Why limit yourselves to Used boats and Sailaways. Only a few years ago it was common for people to do a real D I Y project, it is rare now. Buy a shell, an engine and other bits and pieces including half a forest of timber. After a paultry 3 or 4 years of unremitting toil you will have a boat that you can honestly describe as 'Your Own'. In terms of quantity of work the job is quite daunting, technically it is within the capabilities of most people, what you don't know, you will learn as you go along. The resale value will be every bit as good as that of a proffesional builder, what the boat may lack in styling detail it will make up for in quality of material and durability. Buy a second-hand boat and you will be buying a lot of stuff that you know very well, will eventually will be dumped in a skip. When you have done that, you will be left with an old boat and an old engine for very little less money than if you had bought new. John Squeers.

Along with using high strength flexible adhesive, the other important thing is to have a strong rigid backing. Minimum 3/4 plywood, 'Shutter Ply' is a good material, waterproof, low cost and a rough texture for the adhesive. John Squeers

Mike. I think your idea for a 'star' piping system is an excelent one, any leaks which develop are most likely to be in the vented gas locker. Have you got the 'Boat Safety Scheme Guide' titled 'The Essential Guide' Red coloured January 2002, I would advise you to get one if you haven't already. If you stay stricktly with the book you can't go wrong. After all that is what the inspector will do. I was going to add a caviat that cut-off taps need to be fitted close to the appliance, but having checked they can be fitted on or close to the manifold. It might be an idea to fit a Bubble Tester with your bottles to avoid any possible anomoly. Stans' idea for doing away with the bulkhead connections is a good one too, in fact there is a picture in the book of an alternative 'grommet' protecting a pipe going through a bulkhead. You are likely to have many replies from 'Corgi men', most of whom seem to imagine that only they have the skills and expertise to install gas systems on boats, I am sure that this is not so. John Squeers

Simon. I would not advise paint stripper, you will inevitebly drip and splash it on other parts of the boat, (I would anyway). I believe there are battery angle ginders available, If they go for only an hour between charges you will have had enough that day anyway. Try Screwfix and B & Q John Squeers

Use an angle grinder with rubber flexible sanding disc attachment. Buy the corsest discs you can get. Very messy but it will do the job, wear mask and goggles. Don't aim for a finish to take a gloss paint finish, narrowboat roofs are never that good. Prime, undercoat and apply textured 'deck paint'. John Squeers

David. The switch should be used to control the charging of your batteries. You will no doubt have 2, 3 or more batteries fitted in your boat. One will be dedicated to starting your engine (it will probably have heavier cables connected to it), the others will be connected together and power the domestic circuits, lighting, pumps etc. The idea is that your engine battery is always in a fully charged condition, even if you have gone to sleep the night before with the TV and all the lights on. The OFF position should be used when you leave the boat, the position should isolate all the batteries, like the main switch in your house. Position BOTH should be used when the engine is running, all batts' are connected together and therefore all charging, but you must change to ONE or TWO when you stop the engine unless your boat is fitted with a 'Split charge relay', in which case you may leave the switch on BOTH. Never switch to OFF before the engine is stopped. Positions ONE and TWO determines that only the indicated batteries recieve the charge from the alternator. All domestic and engine systems will continue to function off their own batteries. The above is the 'normal' way it should work, there can be numerous variations by design or accident. On more modern boats automatic systems are used to control the systems, they ensure you cannot accidentally flatten your engine battery and that all your batteries are charged without your intervention. John Squeers Is that you in the photo ?

Richard used to work on the buses, he was a very good conductor. John Squeers

Oliver. I had a similar experience when I last renewed my policy. I tried to increase the insured value of my boat to reflect current prices. They said I would need to get a proffessional valuation, I replied I would rather get another insurer. Especially irritating as I get pressed every year to increase the insured value of my house to generate an increased premium. John Squeers

I think the two controls allow for woodburning as well as solid fuel, wood requires air to be fed from above rather than bellow when it burns too fiercely. John Squeers

Richard. As Tommo says your are allowed up to 4% (9 volts) on 230 volt sytems. I don't know where you have got these 'maximun allowed' figures from for you 24 volt circuits, it all depends what equipment you are powering. 3 and 1.5 volt drops in 230 are nothing. John Squeers

Stuart. Consider buying a plastic GRP or timber cabin boat, then having a steel cabin fitted. The economics of this can stack up quite well. John Squeers.

Mike. I have been thinking of posting a thread on this topic. A motor vehicle has the engine complete with it's alternator neatly installed in a compartment which is effectively exposed to a constant blast of cold air from the outside world, albeit that some has passed through a radiator. All the components are kept in a cool environment. Modern lorries now have ducted cooling system dedicated to supplying outside air directly to the the alternator, with increased demands on their electrical system the manufacturers have identified a problem and rectified it. A similar situation is likley to occur on narrowboats though the running times may not be so great. Contrast the above with the engine compartment of the average narrowboat, the engine and it's bits and pieces sits within a box of hot air, the engine is cooled by means of water pumped in from outside, but that doesn't help your alternator which is located usually high on the engine in the worst possible place above the engine. I recognised a problem with my own boat some time ago, though I don't have a high electrical usage. After several hours of running my alternator gets extremely hot to the touch, I know from experience in other fields that electronics (and there is a good bit of that in an alternator) don't like that. The average diesel engine runs at a constant 85 deg C, the air around it must be very close to that temerature. An alternator inevitably generates heat in it's own right, proportional to the amount of work it is required to do, a fan is fitted to the armature to draw cooling air through it, but as that air is already at a high temperature it's effect is limited. Electronic components have an absolute maximun rated running temp. of 80 - 90 deg C. So we do not have much of a margin. I have eased the problem by giving extra ventilation in the area of the alternator but the difference has been only marginal. I must say that if my boat had the kind of electrical system I read about in these pages I would seriously consider fitting some form of forced cooling system, probably using a motor driven blower. John Squeers

Stuart. I obviously can't comment on the boat in question. Bear in mind however, the only thing that cannot be changed or improved on a norrowboat is the shell, that is what gives it the value, everthing else can be fixed or replaced. In other words, for a given amount of money, in your case a low budget, go for a boat with a good quality /specfication shell (known maker, reasonable metal thickness, general look of a good quality albeit neglected boat). You are probably more used to buying cars, forget about age, superficial rust, paint finish concentrate on the basics. Surveyors are expensive, if you know a metal fabricator or general engineer, take him along though you may choose to get a survey at a later stage. If it is a cheap boat you must see it out of the water before you buy. If it has been re-bottomed make sure it has been done competantly, I have seen some terrible jobs which have virtually destroyed the boat. Springer were at the cheap and cheerfull end of the market and they are all getting on a bit now, don't rule them out, but on balance go for a rough other known make rather than a pretty springer. As for the single cylinder Yanmar, realistically you should be thinking that you may have to replace it within a couple of years. £3,000 plus second hand. John Squeers

Mike. The fact remains that if you have a gismo which is connected to, or controlling both alternators, if that contraption fails it could leave you with no charging capacity at all. I don't see it as any great benefit to run your alternators or anything alse at full capacity for extended periods. In my view the cooling of alternators in narrowboats is marginal to say the least, but I think that is a topic on it's own, possibly for another thread. John Squeers.

Stan. In my view by far the better method is to use a split charge relay, but it must be controlled from the 'charge lamp' output from the alternator. You must also use wiring, and relay switching capacity to cover the 'worst case sonario'. The circuitry must be capable of taking the current flow when a bank of fully charged batteries are connected to a bank of totally flat ones. It WILL happen one day. In practise this means at least 10 mm cable and 75 amp rated relay. You can use perhaps 2 industrial relays wired in parallel with all the contact also wired in parallel. The relays sold for the job in motor accessory shops and chandlers aren't up to it. As you have a new engine, think twice before fitting an alternator controller or delving into the entrails of your alternator to connect sensing conductors, some engine manufacturers have been claiming that you are in breach of the warranty conditions. John Squeers

See Boat Maintenance. No box given for reply, keeps repeating Thread John Squeers

WHY DOES IT KEEP REPEATING THE ORIGINAL THREAD. I AM OBVIOUSLY DOING SOMETHING WRONG. THE FIRST TIME I CLICK 'REPLY' IT DOESN'T GIVE ME A BOX, I CLICK IT AGAIN AND THIS HAPPENS PLEASE ADVISE JOHN SQUEERS

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Mike. I think you have answered your own question. With a dual alternator system you should not need a controller on the starter circuit, even if there were a dual controller available you would loose some of the advantage in that the total independance of each system would be lost. Be wary about using diode type split charge systems, they will only work satisfactorarilly with an alternator with a 'sense' output. For your batteries contact one of the larger caravan / motorhome accessory shops. John Squeers (I DON'T KNOW WHY MIKES THREAD HAS BEEN REPEATED, DID I CLICK ON THE WRONG BUTTON ?)

To Stan Hesketh. Don't have the technology to Email sketches. If you let me have your address by private message I will post the info. to you. John Squeers