Cafnod

Thanks for the replies, Mark, Stan What I am trying to ascertain is if the 240ac is bonded to the hull, as everyone tells me it must be, and the 12vdc IS NOT then is there a problem as I thought the two potentials earths had to be connected together, but not to the same stud? It then seems that the large metal area of hull is isolated from the 12vdc and I am wondering if this could lead to probs with the 240ac? Sorry if this is a bit inarticulate, long week.

Hi all I feel the need to put in a few pennyworth to this discussion, so here goes. Firstly I worked on a lot of lorries in the eighties and ealry ninties. Many of these were fitted with Eberspacher heaters, often known as cab or night heaters. However I have never seen a hydronic system in a lorry. They were all blown air at that time. Likewse a lot of minibusses I worked on, up to 28 seater, were blown air. They had underfloor or side of vehicle ducts and a blown air heater plumbed into them, often mounted at the rear of the vehicle. I understand many modern coaches have wet heating systems but cannot comment as I have never worked on them or seen the specs. Back to the blown air Ebers. Well often they would be run all night, the cabs have a lot of single glazed glass and not (then at least) much insulation. The blown air heaters were used during the day in winter too, Often plumbed into the trucks heater outlets for demisting and warming the cab. So all in all I would say that in wagons they were reliable, but as I am stressing these were not hydronic units. Apart from periodic glow plugs, pumps and ocassionally a control module they served us well. I have known people run these on red too, mainly in motorhomes where they have fitted something like a 2cv tank to take the red. Again I dont know the amount of use these would have received but obviously not the same amount as a livaboard boat. Never having seen a diagram for a hydronic I cannot comment on design differences but would not be surprised if they were structurally very disimilar, thus making the comment 'They work ok in trucks' completely irrelevant. Hope this may contribute something, Regards Richard

Right while I have Stan and Chris on one thread I will aks another question. I have not seen ANY boat with an earth running from the engine mount to the engine bearers, thus earthing the 12vdc potential to the hull. Now the 240vac potential has to be bonded to both the 12vdc supply earth, (I believe Chris recently quoted an RCD requirement for this on another thread) AND to the hull. So therefore is it the case that there can be a potential problem when one potential is bonded to the hull and the other is not?

Hi I am not really sure that filtration can be the proble cos often it is glow plugs that expire rapidly or the ceramic combustion chamber cracks, which is ireparable. I thought Eber were saying it was the fuel quality.

Hi Stan I have been wondering about the earthing of the 12vdc potential on boats generally lately. Looking at my own engine, which is rubber mounted I do not see how the earthing occurs. Sure there is a big earth strap from the starter battery to a stud on the engine but there is no earth strap between the engine and the hull, I would have though for the 12vdc to be fully bonded to the hull there would have to be an earth strap running from the engine to the engine bearers. Thus giving coninuity of the earth with low resistance, or am I missing something? BTW I see you have edited your feet out of the picture this time lol.

Hi Leonora, I am not sure I can see why either, perhaps someone like Mark, who has a lot of big boat experience will have a better answer but is the surveyor saying that as the prop is isolated then it is acting as an anode and coroding? If so that would be a good reason to electrically connect it, all of you metal work would be bonded together. I cannot think of any other reason. Although in all honesty I cannot see how the prop could be acting as an anode if it is not connected to the metalwork of the boat. Further to that I cannot work out how the prop cannot be connected, it is bolted to the shaft that runs through bearings to a drive flange.

Hi Dennis How long have you had your Webasto? If it is a unit of the type used by the military I would expect to have multi fuel capability. Do you mean to say that it will turn itself on and stay on if on the automatic timer? I have heard a lot of problems about Eberspachers too, however it SEEMS as if a lot of these are fuel related, although that is not necessarily true, it could be the company covering themselves. Has anyone run one on parafin?

Hi Tony Sorry to hear (or should that be see) that you are still having troubles with your toilet. Because of the nature of a pump out toilet it has to have a vent, otherwise the tank would implode when you attempted to empty it. So if you have emptied you tank recently and it A Did not implode or B Did not stall the motor of the s*** sucker I can only assume you have a vent that is working to some extent. Usually the pump out installation consists of a gunnel fitting to extract th tank contents, possibly a rinse out fitting for tank flushing, usually mounted next to the extraction hole and a vent. Some vents are on the gunnel, others are a skin fittin, as is ours. I have been told that the fitting should be one inch minimum (25mm) to be fully effective. However our tank is a really good stainless one, built for a reputable boat builder and that only has a vent of 19mm. Although the tank is in and connected we have not used our pump out yet so cannot comment. I would suggest that the following MAY be worth investigating as smell causes. The mounting flange to tank seal, not a seal as such, normally done with clear silicon, but if not right the tank contents can be whiffed through it. The throne to mounting flange seal, this is a sort of compressed foam gasket between the toilet bowl and the mounting flange. The flap seals of the dump thru, you say these are suspect well they would certainly allow the smell through unless water is kept in the bowl. The pipe to the extraction fitting, these degrade over the years and can cause a real whiff, treat the pipe as a consumable and replace every five years. That is all I can think of unless the tank's structural integrity is compromised and although not leaking effluent it is passing odour? Cannot comment on Mark's idea of a filter as I have never come across one, seems a god idea though, if I have probs I think I will fit one. Sorry for the length of this post, just wanted to try and be as informative and cover as muchground as possible. Regards Richard

Dom Cole impressed me greatly as an engineer and boatbuilder, the staff there are extremely competent and professional in their atitudes. We would have bought off them with no hesitation but the lead times were too long. They have been producing quality shells and complete boats for many years. As far as I remember Sam Coles terns of business were £1000 to reserve a build and the balance on completion to the customers satisfaction. To me it says it all.

If you have the skills, the time and the money and equipment it should be an amazing project. when you say a house boat I assume you intend to keep it unpowered? I have seen one of these, or a very similar lighter fitted with a steel framed building that had been grafted on to the hull rather than sat there, I think it was in Kent. House furnishings. it seemed just like being in one to be honest, a real houseboat. Go for it.

Hi David I have used Morris oils for all sort of vintage engine applications, 2 stroke Commer (TS3) diesel and various vintage/veteran motorcycles. Never had a problem with it. The reason the multigrades were developed in the states is cos of the huge disparity of temperatures in the US and Canada, you can easily have to deal with - 40 to +30 in a year. And if anyone else on this site has driven an old lorry where on a cold morning the oil was so thick you could not get a gear then you will understand........................

Agree with David, we have cruised a lot and never had to open the weed hatch, however weed is not what I would worry about. Where we moor, one of the Viking Afloat yards, they dont fit weed cutters on the hire boats. I assume the reason for this is if a customer cuts themselves on one. However one of the engineers went out last year to a jammed prop and found the old matress had partially dragged a moped into the prop/rudder/skeg area. I carry a set of folding wilkinson sword heavy duty wire cutters and a pair of 18 inch record high tensile bolt croppers. These are for shopping trolleys, a common problem on the canals. I dont think weed would jam an engine to be honest, and even if it were so bad that it came close to doing so there would be many other symptoms before it happened, noise change, power loss, overheating....... A log could definitely stop a prop, as could a car wheel but unless you sleeve the outside of the prop, and I dont know if this possible, you cannot guard against them and no weedcutter would help either.

Are you sure the glow plugs are at fault? If they are a multimeter will show them as open circuit. You could do worse than go to a DECENT motor factors and put them on the counter and say four of these please.

Suspect you may be right M & P, it is difficult to advise on such matters as one often only has a small slice of the situation rather than an overview. My own inclinations coming from an engineering background would be to reroute the lot from the tank down to, and then along the swim. that is how it is done on our boat, which is new and dare I saw it RCD compliant. Again material choice, I plumb engines in copper or flexi, more often than not a combination of the two. I have seen but never used aluminium piping, I think only on petrol (gasoline) engines. Some generator sets I have worked on with gravity feed fuel tanks have had similar pipework to Moley's but I have never seen it used in a marine installation before. Hopefully it shpuld be a very straightforward job to fix it and along with all of the other excellent work carried out will help to bring Ades boat into the 21st century and give it many more years of happy boating for current and future owners.

Ok Ade it looks like pipe replacement time. conglomeration Aglomeration are two ways of filtering fuel, the filters are often identical and it is the way they are piped up determines which filtering method is employed. You dont need to worr about it. I would imagine having worked on your instalation in other boats that you have tank/pre filter or sediment bowl/lift pump/main filter/ injection pump/high pressure injector pipes/injectors. If you still have my phone numbers phone me when you get to the bleed stage if you have any problems, it would be easy enough to talk you through it, I have had to do it before. Right first things first; Is your boat stuck or have you got it home? If stuck there are epoxy putties available that can give a temporary repair to the fuel pipe to get you back. PM me if you need advice on this. If back at the home mooring should not be an issue to sort it. alan raised a good point about how much clearance there is below the pipes, can you let us know on this please? If insuficient they may need to be sawn off below the tank and replaced/rerouted (possibly onlyslightly). However I would regard this as unlikely as all systems need maintenance and Calcutt should have future proofed the pipes. Dont think you will easily thread the pipes up yourself, you can hire pipe threading kit, I do have some but you may be able to get a plumber to do it, there is an excellent hydraulic place I deal with, I can give you their number if you wish, they will be able to make up a flexi pipe with unions for you if need be. Yes you only have to worry about the diesel in the pipework, shut the fuel cock off at the tank and diesel flow will/should cease.

Hi Ade firstly WHERE is the fuel line weeping from? Has it pinholed or is the leak at a joint? By the looks of your photograph you have galvanised steel pipes. As they are permanantly lubricated a leak through corrosion is highly unlikely, there may be external rust but that expands lots without the underlying metal being affected much. Internaly the steel is lubricated by the fuel oil. Considering all of the other work you have done on your boat I would have thought this was no problem for you to tackle. Bowless type fuel filters are disposable items, as are cartridge types, get a new one and keep a spare in the tool kit. Bleeding a fuel system is very easy and straigtforward, it is something any owner should learn to do.

Well let us hope that the documents get signed off and then you are in a much better position. No need for notified bodies. I did not think TS would put it in writing, very often statuory bodies will not put a decision like that, which I reckon they would be legally liable for in wiritng, they will do it over the phone and then claim all sorts of qualifications to the decision later if challenged; 'He did not tell me that bit' or 'Obviously he was mistaken' Or even better 'We have no record of this phone call' Been there had that, I always deal with such entities by post, if it is important recorded delivery but at the least a certificate of posting. Print letters rather than write them, keep language clear and unambiguous. Always keep a copy of any missives and write out a chronology. That way if it goes to court you can show what you sent, when you sent it and who it was sent to. If they claim non receipt and it is recorded then they are in trouble, the post office keep records of who signed for what and the date it was delivered. Can be slow and long winded I know, took me five years one to get some money but it was worth the battle. Best of luck.

Well M & P, I am not sure if the trading stds were just shining you on. Our new sailaway has a RCD to the standard to which it was finished, showing that the diesel tank was pressure tested and that the engine complies to various regs, you should have had that and it is a criminal offence for you not to have been given it with a newly bought boat. a small anecdote about the law; About 8 years ago I was driving a customers Ford Cosworth that had been stolen and recovered, being an army officer he had been posted to North Yorkshire from wiltshire, unfortunately before his car was recovered. I was deliveering it. The gearbox seized and I was hit by an articulated lorry in the rear. cut a long story short my then boss and I parted company and he was 'unavailable' and would 'send me the details' for my personal injury claim. After six months of this my (then) solicitors said without info they could not proceed. Went to this absolute rotweiller of an ambulance chaser, south african woman, She proceeded to contact him once, by letter, stated if the details were not with her in seven days she would report him to the police for failing to give particulars of an accident to an involved party, a criminal offence. Ended up with her pushing it till he was in court, judge fined him and said if the details were not given that day he would lock him up for contempt. A good solicitor can give you advice if you are in a similar position with TS. I would look into it, you dont have to spend any money, CAB will put you in touch with a solicitor who can advice you on whether there is a case to answer or not. But I suspect that TS cannot be bothered, did you get this refusal to do anything in writing?

There are six machine screws holding the funnel shaped mounting flange to the tank, these are either 1/4 whitworth or 1/4 UNC. There is no seal between the funnel and the tank. If it is leaking then the mounting flange may have cracled or gone porous. Obviously needs to be removed for inspection.

Hi again M & P Even if the company is limited limitation does not protect you from prosecution for a criminal offence, which selling you a boat without the necessary paperwork is. Once convicted of a crime the victim of that crime can then sue the perpetrator of that crime for any loss incurred as a result of the criminal action, or that is how my climbing partner put it and he was a detective sergeant in the police force for many years. So Mark it looks like our native boat industry is about to get the squeeze in favour of cheap imports? Obviously such things dont happen and I am being alarmist, the car industry, the motorcycle industry and in fact the whole manufacturing base collapsed because it was not good enough. Nothing to do with legislation forcing homegrown products out of the running. I notice we have not had a reply from the BSS office regarding my comments in an earlier post. But to look at what they had to say again. Mention is made of widows stuck with narrowboats. Well if this is a grand project, rather than a finished boat it could not have been CE marked unless fully built anyway. I would love to know how many of these calls the BSS office has had, it reminds me of the tories when they introduced the poll tax bleating on about it being fairer for impoverished little old ladies living alone in huge mansions. Funny I asked a few tories how these old ladies who were so poor managed to keep the mansion in repair, heated, grounds tended etc. You know I never did get a convincing reply............................