Chris Lingwood
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Posts posted by Chris Lingwood
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Anyone who has ever visited an electro-plating company and seen these processes at work will know that to achieve any significant deposition requires much more than odd bits of stray current. I have seen supply transformers the size of a house.
These reactions require huge amounts of electrical energy, one of the reasons why I have always been a bit sceptical about all this stuff. I am certain however that all those people who supply the magic beans will wholeheartedly disagree.
although I'd freely admit I don't know a great deal about the process I would say that the critical difference is that electroplating companies expect their machines to work fairly rapidly. They don't have years to achieve these things. We leave our boats plugged in and sat in electrolyte for years on end. If you think of it in those terms although the effect is minute it could add up to mm lost over time.
I'm going to run off now before the 12 page thread starts!
Oh and less
you could do that....but people would hate you! And if you were found to be doing it deliberately you might find people claiming their hulls back by means of an electric drill -
Thanks for the replies. Is the Lancashire considered a proper canal or is it forgotten as it does not appear to be part of the network that I know, how is it accessed from the main system?
Also, I imagine due to the lack of locks it only appeals to a limited number of potential hirers, for me the locks are necessary to keep the other members on the boat ‘involved’ in the holiday. Any opinions appreciated.
Thanks again
There are 6 on the Glasson branch (effectively 12 as its a dead end so you get to turn round and go straight back) its quite a pleasant branch with a few pubs at the end and a pleasant basin, its quite near the lune/conder esturarys. There's a few at the start of the Ribble link too but I doubt you are allowed to take a hire boat on that, I hope you're not anyway.
You could have a go at the Tewitfield locks but you might have some depth issues!
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Well I've been assured I will have good coverage (we shall see) and its the cheapest way of getting broadband which isn't tied to a mobile phone so my girlfriend can use it while I'm out. I've ordered it and got the free modem and free bluetooth thingy. I should be able to get the 2.8MBs signal which I believe is per mast, so even if it averages out to around 512kbs or even 256kbs would be much better than grps and only £2.50 a month more.
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New this week its £10, £15 to £25 a month for 1GB 3GB and 7GB respectively and the modem is free if you get either of the 2 most expensive ones. only available in the some of the north from September then it rolls out to other places but most of the country doesn't get it. Its up to 2.8MBs so LOADS better than my current grps dial up speed.
And you can get a free bluetooth headset if you talk to them on their live chat.
The coverage looks fairly limited at the moment so you need to check on the checker. Its the green turbo button you want to press. Skype is allowed too (I asked them) so with skype pro you get "unlimited" calls to a landline for an extra £1.50 a month. BARGAIN!
I think my tmobile contact might find itself cancelled soon if I can get something approximating an landline.
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bugger, I'm trapped between January and March
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Surely the broken window is only as secure as the film to frame join? Won't it behave like a laminated windscreen and break and not shatter but still pop out of its frame.
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loads of stuff
I thought I'd win this particular competition! Apparently not!
I have got:
2 kayaks
colapsable engine carton (greatest roof box of all time! its hinged and everything!)
a pallet of wood
about 4 oars
life ring
various poles
2 bikes (technically on the back deck)
a bbq
It looks a frightfully mess, I really should empty the engine carton and put the fire wood in there and paint it a nice colour. Not a lot I can do about the kayaks though apart from repaint the ply one. I should probably make a frame for the various poles too!
Damn you all...that's like 3 things for my todo list....ITS ALREADY 47 ITEMS LONG!!!!
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oh...your cats clearly cleverer (and more persistant) than mine! Could you put a removable bar over the outside of the door? Although that's not much use if he manages to batter the door to pieces! You could do what some one at my marina did with his cat flap....accidentally mount a mast in the way...oops!
Don't know of any metal flaps though, I'd probably have bought one if I did. Having said that the attacking cat might be a little worse off if it gets smacked in the face by one of those.
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Our flap...doesn't anymore because the cat beat the hell out of it (into the invading cats face I might add) but it has a sliding cover that you slot in when you want it locked. I don't see that a cat could get through it without punching a hole clean through it. I think its the cheapest one in argos. Unfortunately the flap will fall off.
Could you just put a normal door over the flap? Or a bit of ply wood. I'd like to see it burrow through 3/4inch ply...or better still STEEL!
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The wattage is *not* the correct thing to consider. A load of 500 *Watts* with a power factor of 0.1 would pull 22 amps and therefore need a 5000 VA transformer. As you have a 5 amp limited supply, it matters not one jot what the power factor of the load is. It will either be under 5 Amps (irrespective of power factor) in which case the transformer is sufficient. Or it will be be above 5 Amps, the transformer will not be sufficient, but the circuit breaker will pop anyway.
So when I said 1150W i meant 1150VA. So the transformer is OK up to just over 7 amps in reality. I've reread the wikipedia article and I think I've got it now.
They are the same specChris
The shore RCD WOULD trip because the impedance of the water between a steel narrowboat with a 300 to 400 ft2 base plate and the marina piling is about 3 ohms (Allan Jones on "Keeping Up" and I measured it extensively some months ago). So there would be a current imbalance and, even if that didn't trip because of a fault, the current would be around 70 amps instantaneously so the shore MCB would also trip.
Chris
That's a much lower resistance than I would have expected but then again I've never measured it!
I may also buy one, if they do what the specification says they should then it seams almost silly not to! Shame I can't find a stockist other than RS for this model. I might try them directly.
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So I would be connecting my neutral and earth wires together just as happens somewhere off in the national grid normally. Makes sense. I take it this connection MUST be made on the IT side YES of the RCD otherwise it wouldn't detect a current imbalance if you held onto the hull and the live wire. Is this connection not made inside the transformer? NO
Oh ok. Thats good to know.
I seem to remember something about earthing a safety screen. What ever it was its internal to the transformer and could be wrong for our purposes.That's the internal frame earth which, as discussed previously, needs to be earthed to the shore
Chris
Splendid. Right gotcha, I thought you were just talking about the outer casing of the transformer rather than any internal component when you said frame.
I can't see any reason then why this wouldn't be as appropriate as Victron one.
Surely there's a flaw with this setup though. I can't think of a reliable way that mains would trip if you managed to short your shorepower live wire onto the hull (before the IT). The mcbs on the shore wouldn't trip because no great current would flow. The RCD might trip but that depends on how much current the water conducts back to ground. I think I'm right it saying that nothing on the boat would trip either.
Relying on the RCD on the shoreline to trip uses the same logic that says you shouldn't ground your hull...logic I'm not fond of.
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For some people. Useless for others.
ARGH!!!
The Victron equivalent to the RS components (Carroll-Meynell) isolation transformer is £350 + VAT rather than £85 + VAT so they're hardly the "cheapest on the market"Exactly! Now have Victron made something subtly different or have they stuck a marine sticker on something and quadrupled the price. As far as I know there's nothing special to a 1:1 wound transformer which should justify £400 other than economies of scale.
Phew you got the joke I thought it was all going to kick off again.That'd be great, the balsa wood anodes are working a treat!
Phew!
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1. Take note that the Isolation Transformer (IT) you're looking at is rated at 1650VA NOT 1650 Watts.
I noticed that. I was under the impression that this is only of significance when there is a low power factor. My 5 amps have proved to be plenty which is 1150W so with 1650VA that allows for a power factor of 0.7? That sounds like plenty of headroom bearing in mind I probably very rarely use that 5amps.
Having said that the wiki of pedia suggests that for switch mode power supplies the factor could be as low as 0.55. And most of my loads I think are switch mode apart from my hifi amp.
For example, SMPS with passive PFC can achieve power factor of about 0.7–0.75, SMPS with active PFC, up to 0.99, while SMPS without any power factor correction has a power factor of only about 0.55–0.65.They are however very recent so may well have either passive of active PFC. My computer for instance has:
-Active PFC and high efficiency design for superior environmentally friendly operationso its power factor might be about 1ish...which is good! Dunno about the sterling charger or tv though.
2. The frame of the IT should be earthed to the shore NOT the boatYup otherwise I've done what's commonly known as defeating the object
3. The neutral on the boat side of the IT must be earthed (ie: bonded to the hull at or very near to where the battery negative is bonded) in order to make your RCD's function correctlySo I would be connecting my neutral and earth wires together just as happens somewhere off in the national grid normally. Makes sense. I take it this connection MUST be made on the IT side of the RCD otherwise it wouldn't detect a current imbalance if you held onto the hull and the live wire. Is this connection not made inside the transformer? The earth bonding would serve this purpose then?
4. Galvanic Isolators are not "debatable at best", they are excellent at best.That sounds like debate of galvanic isolators Mr. W I think there's been more than enough of that.
I seam to remember something about earthing a safety screen. What ever it was its internal to the transformer and could be wrong for our purposes.
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I remember reading here about a isolation transformer from RS (436-8805) which at 1650VA should give me 7amps continuous (3000va peak for 15 minutes). I have a 5 amp fuse in my shoreline anyway and have only blown it once when I hit both switches on the fan heater by accident so that's plenty.
Some one did point out another potential problem with it (other than the potentially low capacity). The problem is I think its in the galvanic isolator thread and I don't really want to venture back in there. I think it was to do with the way that it is earthed. I don't want to buy something that costs loads (the Victron one) if I don't have to, but equally if it doesn't do the job then I might as well not fit it.
I've found the manufacturers website so I should be able to find the answer to any questions from there http://www.carroll-meynell.com/
I seem to remember a forum member was trying to get a cheaper isolation transformer sourced but I can't remember who it was...did they have any joy in the end?
Some boats in my marina are coming out with some odd deposits on them so there might be a problem with the wiring. I thought I'd investigate this again as I'm redoing some of my wiring anyway and galvanic isolators are debatable at best (PLEASE DON'T DEBATE THEM!!!! PLEEEEEEEAAAAAASSSSSSEEEEE!!!!).
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Hang on have I been dense? I was under the impression we were talking about something far cleverer than I think we are.
I though an alternator controller was a fancy bit of kit just like a mains battery charger that just uses the 12v ish supply instead of a AC supply. Whereas it seams they aren't, they are just external voltage regulators. So as you drag your batteries voltage up it won't do anything UNTIL you reach the limit set by the internal regulator. At this point the controller either starts lying to the internal regulator about the voltage or takes over the energising of the field windings (assuming it doesn't just do that anyway). At this point without the controller the internal regulator would be in effect limiting the charge current but in reality is limiting the voltage.
Couldn't roughly the same thing be achieved with an internal regulator that has its limit set at 14.4v or whatever? Which I'm pretty sure is exactly what Gibbo and others have been trying to say for 5 pages.
I think I reiterated a couple of other peoples posts here but I'd like to make sure I'm not thinking/talking bollocks.
What I don't quite understand it how the battery responds to applied voltages. I've tried and failed to find a graph showing this. As I understand it (perhaps wrongly) presuming we start with a discharged battery:
The battery voltage starts low (when disconnected)
We then connect charger
This slowly brings the voltage up to a set limit (bulk charge?) 11-14.4-.8v
Then it sits at this limit (absorption?) 14.4-.8v
Then drops down (float?) 13.?v
What I know I don't understand is at absorption the voltage is around 14.4-.8v but if you switch it off the voltage would go down to 13v ish (same as float?). Does the voltage drop on the battery if you turn off the charger in the bulk stage? Why can't you get the voltage of the battery higher during the bulk stage? I guess its down to the chemistry. If I'm not talking bollocks the first 2 stages are down to the nature of batteries and the voltage limit.
What is the purpose of float? To avoid damage to the batteries? Do the alternator controllers have a float stage? This could be an advantage but admittedly wouldn't charge it any faster.
Also with lower current battery chargers/alternators does the bulk stage just last longer as the charger can't raise the voltage up to the absorption level without trying to supply more current than it is capable of?
I think with some of this I've attempted to treat a battery as a ohmic conductor which its not.
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I thought about putting a bike rack on the stern of my boat but don't you keep crushing your bikes against locks and whatnot? The seem a bit vulnerable out the back.
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yeah I think they changed the terms and conditions of the £7.50 tariff, although it should still work on the £12.50 tariff.
Edit: I've got the £12.50 (as do you if you are using it on a laptop) and the pocket msn won't sign in now. Maybe they've blocked it for everyone/something's gone bang!
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You can get T valves at just about any plumbers suppliers. I've got a few on my boat. Never had a problem getting hold of them.
Gibbo
Splendid, how do they switch. I've found one on chandleryworld but it has a position where both hot water sources are connected together and slightly worse where they are both supplying the hot taps. I can't decide if that's dangerous or bad for the water heater (I suppose a NRV after the paloma would protect it though) as I'm guessing the presure drop through the calorifier is less than through the water heater. Ideally I want an all off in the middle.
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Why would I need 2 valves?
I might be able to use a motorised 3 way valve. It would be more impressive (and probably neater) to have the pipes hidden and only a switch to select between the two. Shame they are about £30 and 240v
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Can you buy a push fit (or just threaded) switched t junction? I can't find them. I was just thinking about fitting a small calorifier for cruising and keeping my gas heater for when moored. I obviously can't put calorified water through the gas heater, I'll die, but if I could have a valve to select between the 2 sources of hot water it would be fine.
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bread makers, microwaves, electric carving knives, automatic potato peelers, coffee makers, sandwich toasters, popcorn makers, electric can openers...
none of these should be found on a boat. they are all part of a consumerist society making us fill our already small homes with more stuff we dont actually need.
What a wonderfully perfect, mildly condescending life you must lead.
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Mines "fairly" modern compared to the cottagey type although its not as good as Leviathan (which incidentally must have been for sale for 2 years now!)
equipment used to run/maintain the boat - ropes, mooring pins + hammer, tiller extension + pin, boat poles
appliances - cooker, fridge, freezer, microwave
amount of food - as much as a normal person living alone
cooking items - normal things really
entertainment - tv, hifi + speakers, pc & laptop, some books, paperwork and suchlike, cds+dvds, guitar
cloths, bed cloths, bathroom stuff
general tools
wood/coal
2* kayaks
2* bicycles
electrical gubbins cupboard (inverter + battery charger and what not)
some of that is on the roof admittedly but you should get the idea. Most of it is just normal stuff you need for living (I live on board) very little is actually specifically boat related.
Oh yeah I forgot about storing gas/water/poo all in their respective tanks!
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Mix the sand with the paint before you paint it? I think that's how international paints do it, although they have a special name for sand. Although as the paint wears you get sand everywhere. Yachts use ply with a cross pattern on it, I forget the name. I expect its quite expensive though, you can get a rubber equivalent aswell.
I imagine that the grit tape would peel up and wear out fairly quickly.
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Careful, die nuts are for cleaning and restoring damaged threads and aren't up to the job of cutting a thread from scratch.
That's what I want it for! I've got an old mgb (not to mention my boat) and refurbing a few bolts and studs will come in handy (although I intend to replace a lot of them as I go along).
Die's (I'm told) aren't quite as good a thread restoring as die nuts because its a pain to get them to the right size. I've got no use at the moment for cutting threads onto bars....maybe later.
you could do that....but people would hate you! And if you were found to be doing it deliberately you might find people claiming their hulls back by means of an electric drill 
gas pipework
in General Boating
Posted · Edited by Chris Lingwood
Iiiinteresting! I was going to fit my new gas system myself then get the qualified gas man down to commission it and make sure its not going to kill me. Sounds like I can't do that seeing as I live aboard.
Is solid pipe really a problem? It would make my installation much neater and I have several 90 degree bends.