[Hire Companies Responsibility]

A couple of other aspects to this which haven't been mentioned:

 

The customers attention span. I would argue that a comprehensive and concise tuition, interspersed with some humour, and the odd "threat" ("pay attention or we'll have to go through all of this again" works well!) is of more value than three hours when the customers eyes have glazed over in the first 10 minutes. We have a policy of one member of staff per boat that is going out that day and they stay with the customer until they are confident the hirer is as well prepared as possible.

 

The other problem we find is that some people are so mad keen to get going that they are nodding enthusiastically and pretending they understand just to get going on their holiday. If we believed them, only when they got round the corner would they suddenly wish they had listened! If we are suspicious, we'll have a little quiz before setting off on the practical part of the tuition - which lasts as long as necessary. The current record is Newbold!

 

We're signed up to the Considerate Boater website, and encourage all our hirers to have a good read of that as well as the BW produced DVD and boater's handbook.

 

I happen to live alongside the GU, and have some moorings there. On the whole, more hireboats now seem to slow down past moored boats these days. than privately owned boats. Obviously I keep an eye out for ours, and I'm proud to say that I've only had to remonstrate with one in three years - hopefully we get the rest of the handover across as successfully. Que the horror stories about speeding red & green boats.........

 

As an aside, if any of ours are misbehaving (and I'm there will be some), we DO want to know - that's our reputation they're ruining, and I can do that on my own.

[Paying for red diesel]

All of our boating is done these days on the Lancaster. After many years on the system, we came up here about five years ago. Since the introduction of the 'new' taxation policy, the only yard selling red diesel on this canal will not sell for propulsion, all the others having given up fuel sales as to much trouble. This leaves us all running around the country to various garages, with a boot full of cans. Needles to say, garages are not concerned where your putting the stuff you are buying from them, nor are at all wise about red derv and boats, so you pay the pump price, and tip it into your boat. I initially registered a 80/20 split, (80 heating and generation, 20 propulsion), with no comebacks. Currently we are paying 50p a litre from a small garage we have found. So the question must be asked, if you are unable to buy your fuel canal-side from a boatyard/marina, and have to 'can around' in order to refuel, and the garages haven't got a clue, then are you breaking the law? 50p sounds cheap, until you add up the mileage getting the stuff by car.

 

 

If the garage in question does not have a separate registration with HMRC to sell fuel to boats, it is illegal for them to sell it to you, and most likely illegal for you to use it as you haven't made a declaration at the time of purchase.

 

All retailers were informed last October that they would need to make an additional registration if they wished to continue supplying fuel to boats.

 

My big fear with the growing use of cans is the risk of a pollution incident, and some knee jerk reaction following on. For the same reason I wouldn't permit self fuelling. If it ever happens (touch wood, it hasn't yet) sorting out who is to blame for a spill is much simpler if it's our pump and our operator.

[Paying for red diesel]

mayalld's maths is about right.

 

Our typical diesel sale is between 40 and 50 litres, a good number are as low as 25ltrs (and that's direct into boats, let's not even discuss cans!). If we have to stop work on the hire fleet on a turnround day to provide that service, then there will be two or three of my guys standing idle until the transaction is complete, so there's no way we make money at that. However, we wouldn't turn the customer away as they may then (not unreasonably) never come back.

 

Someone used the phrase "sprat to catch a mackerel" earlier in this thread. They are spot on. Diesel is basically a service we provide - it's the "added value" that makes it viable. The big problem is that there aren't many mackerel in the current economic climate!

 

20 minutes for a pump out, plus our machinery costs and septic tank disposal costs don't make them a great money spinner but again, we want people to stop and see what else we do.

[Paying for red diesel]

At the risk of sticking my head above the parapet, I'd like to make a few observations, if I may:

 

We aren't the cheapest around for red diesel, even so, we don't make any worthwhile profit (if any) from it.

 

Work out how long it takes for a member of staff to fill a boat, and do the paperwork. Let's say that takes 10 minutes, and I reckon we make on average about £4 per transaction. Pay the wages, the PAYE, the cost of the stock, a proportion of the overheads of the shop, the servicing costs of the pump, knock off the credit card or bank charges, and then my time to reconcile it and send the returns off, and it doesn't take much to realise that it's a loss leader. We've been inspected this year - two inspectors for about 5 hours. A number of our staff involved were questioned about procedures, and it took up two directors for the morning.

 

Without the hire fleet, and the fact that we have chandlery on site, we couldn't justify doing it, at 60/40 or any other percentage.

 

We permit declaration by the customer - within reason. Someone tried to claim 100% domestic use the other day as they were residential in a marina. I don't doubt them, but the marina in question was 60 miles away! Whilst there is a clear statement in the HMRC guidelines that it is the boater's responsibility to declare what percentage is for what, there is a neat little catch-all. We, as an agent of HMRC have a duty of care. For example, if we sell someone a can of red diesel knowing or suspecting it is to be used in a car, we are liable, and the penalties are horrendous. I suspect the eyes of the law will make no distinction between that or selling diesel at the incorrect rate of duty for a boat and this is probably why some companies are "playing safe" and only selling at the guideline split of 60/40.

 

There was a VAT case a few years ago where a company had sold some chandlery at 0% VAT quite legitimately as the boat it was being fitted into qualified as a houseboat. During a subsequent VAT inspection, they were asked to provide proof of what the goods had been used for. Documentation wasn't proof, they wanted to see the boat! Well that was long gone (funny thing that, boats move). The company ended up paying the VAT bill. I do wonder if HMRC will turn round and do the same thing to some of the diesel sellers who are routinely selling diesel as almost exclusively domestic along the lines of "The retailer has clearly not been exercising his duty of care" and can't prove that he has.

 

The whole system is a messy compromise, and I don't know anyone from HMRC down to the end user who likes it, but there you go.

 

As for training, fair enough, but someone has gone through the education system for 11 years and professional teachers couldn't explain percentages in a way they could understand, who can? And yes, I do know someone like that - fortunately she doesn't sell diesel.

 

I know Kate Boats, and they're not the sort of people to scam anyone. I'd hope if and when we make a mistake, you'll come back to us and let us put it right - it only takes one mispressed button on the calculator.