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It is possible to be worn after 3500 hours but unlikely to be worn out. The beta 43 drive plate is quite a complicated assembly of aluminium castings and rubber drive blocks. If not broken Beta will refurbish it for a reasonable fee and new one will be about £100 - £120. Well worth fixing before it breaks. replacement time should be nomore than 2 hours to remove and replace if access is reasonable maybe 3 hours if difficult to get at all the bolts.
Dave
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you could try willow wren at rugby 01788 562183
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try russell newberry at Daventry excellent gauges in vintage style
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I would suspect that the recent occurrence of very heavily water / sludge / diesel bug contaminated fuel has damaged the fuel injection pump. Not really Beta's fault is it? Has the friend told Beta about the fuel issue?
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I cant speak for everyone but you are me
Charles
Rude ignorant, bad mannered. We all bring something to this forum. Perhaps best you bring silence.
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Thank you kindly, sir :-)
Adjust the fuel spray? Is this a Bolinder, a Seffle, or something else?!
Anyway back on topic, there's news. The K1 was delivered to me today :-D (I didn't say anything before as publishing proceedings in a pubic forum is never a good way to conduct negotiations!)
Anyway I now need to decide how to have it installed. Cut the stern tube out and re-weld it in, pointing directly at the engine with a solid propshaft as RWD are insisting is the only way, or plumber blocks and a lorry propshaft with UJ's as both Kevin Whittle and Dick Goble think will will be adequate?
Given the strong reservations so many people have about the viability of a K1 in a narrerboat, I'd like the whole installation to be reversible so I can fit something sensible like a Gardner if it all turns out to be a disaster, so I'm leaning towards the lorry propshaft method.
Cheers, Mike
Mike, keep it simple. The kelvin box is reliable easy to use and original. cardan shafts (lorry prop) are working fine in lots of kelvin installs including mine. Done well it will last plenty of time, worst case is new propshaft bearings every 5 - 10 years - no big deal. and best of all you will save money on the installation compared with hydraulic etc.
Dave
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Hi,
We are booking our boat in for an overdue repaint later in the year. The quote we have is around £5,500.00 for a 57ft trad stern boat. I have been nosing around a few of the paint sheds and see that there seems to a mixture of spray and brush application of the paint.
The folk we are probably going to use seem to build up the base layers with spray and then apply the final coat (not sure about the lacquer layer), with brushes..
Can anyone advise whether this is the norm? I have admired the work from various paint sheds but don't ALL newly painted and polished boats look amazing?
As it is such a big financial commitment, i am conscious of getting the best finish as possible as one would assume that the better job done in applying the paint, the longer it will keep the boat looking great. I have always assumed that with any application of paint to metal that spray jobs always provide the best finish..
Any thoughts / experiences?
Thanks
The biggest difference is that the paint used for brushing is usually a different paint than that used for spraying. If spraying then a modern two pack acrylic (2K) paint can be used which has a far superior formulation particularly with regards to UV resistance. It is also a much harder surface as it will chemically cross link to form an impermeable barrier. A clear coat lacquer applied to the finished paintwork will further enhance both the visual appearance and the physical protection provided. Most brushing paints will be softer and less resistant to UV exposure. We can do which ever finish our customer requires although our recomendation would be spray application. Which ever solution you decide upon the preparation is critical to both the longevity of the finish and the appearance of the finish.
If you wish to discuss any other details please feel to PM or call me
Dave 07812 039110
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I used to have one of the Willow Wren Seffles and would be interested to know if your paperwork settles once and for all whether WR imported four or five.
Also I was also told that my engine had been rebuilt and was in fact much earlier than 1956. l did once have a list of all the boats which had a Seffle, but I passed this on when I sold the engine so I'd be interested to see your documents.
As far as I remember, your seffle was a 25hp with air starter which originally was in Jack monks AVOCET. It was then rescued from a coal heap and put into butty Baildon which was rescued from the wendover arm and coverted to a shorter 60' motor by seamus walsh at market drayton. It was subsequently removed from baildon at natwich basin end and sold to Chris Lake who fitted it into his then boat 'OWL' Chris is working for me presently and has photos of the engine coming out of baildon. It was then removed( by you i guess!!) at WFB and is now in storage - Not at WFB, I tried to buy it but 10k is far too much. I spent much time behind it on Baildon mostly dodging the red hot soot balls and watching the smoke rings.
If you have the engine number( Iam still waiting to get it from Baildons owner) I should have the original Seffle invoice for it
Dave 07812 039110
Does Owl still have it's K2 with the recess in the base plate for the flywheel?
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Hi Dave,
Thanks for the info!
It appears from the phone number to be Wombourne Canal Services selling it, but the number gives an error message "this number does not receive incoming calls" so I'm wondering if they've gone to the wall. Does anybody know anything about them? I've emailed narrowboatsearch.co.uk instead who I'd imagine only have the same phone number as listed.
Moving on, yes I'd definitely be interested if you can do the whole thing for us. I think a J2 would be a more sensible choice that the K1 but then I'm not very good at sensible and I LIKE the K series. I definitely want a one or two pot engine, three pot is out. I don't like the sound they make.
Would you need the boat bringing to you or could you do it on the hardstanding at Thames and Kennet Marina Reading? Where are you? Your profile doesn't say....
Cheers, Mike
Hi, we would need the boat here as the installation is not so straight forward and would take a while. The engine beds are not a problem but the control gear can take a while to engineer thoroughly also With the boat here i have access to our machine shop lathe/ mill etc not to mention the dry dock and crane for lifting engine in and out. We are at hillmorton locks on the oxford canal. Feel free to call me on 07812 039110. I may be able to source other kelvins if you can narrow the search!!. WE currently have 2 J2 and a K3 ( Hydraulic drive we fitted into the original gear box casing!) installation here.
What engine is in the boat now?
Dave
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I have some interesting historical paperwork relating to all of the seffle engines brought into the country by Willow Wren. most references engine numbers to help id
Dave
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I saw the K1 at the weekend and was completely charmed by it! I also saw a J3 which seemed a bit tame in comparison so I've decided to make a K series Kelvin fit even if it means I have to increase the draught of the whole of the boat by 2" or 3". That lovely slow tick-over is wonderful :-)
So, I've been back to the boat to do some more detailed checking and I think the project is feasible. Plenty of problems to find solutions for, but no show-stoppers that I can see. This isn't going to be a showpiece installation, just one that works, and I'll ask advice from the board and document the decisions made as we go.
Firstly, if we end up buying the K1 I'll be planning the installation in such a was as to be able to swap it for a K2 should the vibration turn out to be intolerable. In case they want too much for the K1 (£7k seems too much!), I'll be in the market for a K2. Does anyone know of one for sale perhaps?
The things that bother me initially are as follows:
1) The starter motor is 24V. There is an alternator with it but our domestic systems are 12V. Will I need a second 12V alternator or can the 24V alternator be configured to charge my 12V domestic batteries as well? If so, how?
2) Engine bearers. I think the boat will need to come out of the water to have the old bearers cut out and transverse bearers welded into place. The old bearers are longitudinal 8" high x 6" wide I-section RSJs welded continuously to the floor plate the full length of the engine room. Bang in the way. What does the board think I should use for K1 and K2 bearers? (It seems sensible to have new bearers installed for both K1 and K2 engines while the work is being done in case the K1 is a disaster.) The new bearers need to be 8" high, roughly. I'm wondering if timber bearers should be used, say 6" x 4" teak or mahogany or oak sitting on top of 2" x 4" channel sections welded across the full width of the boat. I'm concerned to minimise transmitted vibration if we get the K1 so maybe we should find some very stiff rubber engine mounts. Or timber bearers supported at each end only. Any views?
3) Forward/reverse controls. Where can I get the bits from for the chain drive? I'm also wondering about arranging a large lever at the steering position that can transmit motion for translation into rotary movement close by the transmission. How many revolutions of the chain ring on the transmission are needed from forward to neutral, and from neutral to reverse?
4) Throttle control. This should be easy but it isn't. Where can I find the bits to link up the throttle lever to a speedwheel at the steering position?
5) Ballast. I'll need LOADS of it at the bows. Lead shot seems the most dense and best suited to filling up all the spaces. Or steel shot as poor alternative. Maybe stainless steel shot? Where can I obtain such stuff?
All comment and advice most welcome.
Finally, is anyone here interested in carrying out the installation for me?
Cheers, Mike
I saw the K1 at the weekend and was completely charmed by it! I also saw a J3 which seemed a bit tame in comparison so I've decided to make a K series Kelvin fit even if it means I have to increase the draught of the whole of the boat by 2" or 3". That lovely slow tick-over is wonderful :-)So, I've been back to the boat to do some more detailed checking and I think the project is feasible. Plenty of problems to find solutions for, but no show-stoppers that I can see. This isn't going to be a showpiece installation, just one that works, and I'll ask advice from the board and document the decisions made as we go.
Firstly, if we end up buying the K1 I'll be planning the installation in such a was as to be able to swap it for a K2 should the vibration turn out to be intolerable. In case they want too much for the K1 (£7k seems too much!), I'll be in the market for a K2. Does anyone know of one for sale perhaps?
The things that bother me initially are as follows:
1) The starter motor is 24V. There is an alternator with it but our domestic systems are 12V. Will I need a second 12V alternator or can the 24V alternator be configured to charge my 12V domestic batteries as well? If so, how?
2) Engine bearers. I think the boat will need to come out of the water to have the old bearers cut out and transverse bearers welded into place. The old bearers are longitudinal 8" high x 6" wide I-section RSJs welded continuously to the floor plate the full length of the engine room. Bang in the way. What does the board think I should use for K1 and K2 bearers? (It seems sensible to have new bearers installed for both K1 and K2 engines while the work is being done in case the K1 is a disaster.) The new bearers need to be 8" high, roughly. I'm wondering if timber bearers should be used, say 6" x 4" teak or mahogany or oak sitting on top of 2" x 4" channel sections welded across the full width of the boat. I'm concerned to minimise transmitted vibration if we get the K1 so maybe we should find some very stiff rubber engine mounts. Or timber bearers supported at each end only. Any views?
3) Forward/reverse controls. Where can I get the bits from for the chain drive? I'm also wondering about arranging a large lever at the steering position that can transmit motion for translation into rotary movement close by the transmission. How many revolutions of the chain ring on the transmission are needed from forward to neutral, and from neutral to reverse?
4) Throttle control. This should be easy but it isn't. Where can I find the bits to link up the throttle lever to a speedwheel at the steering position?
5) Ballast. I'll need LOADS of it at the bows. Lead shot seems the most dense and best suited to filling up all the spaces. Or steel shot as poor alternative. Maybe stainless steel shot? Where can I obtain such stuff?
All comment and advice most welcome.
Finally, is anyone here interested in carrying out the installation for me?
Cheers, Mike
narrowboatsearch have a k2 for sale but £7k. We have installed several kelvin. a K2, K3 & 2 J2. we can do it all for you if you want
I have a j2 But don't really want to sell it ans also a national DM3 which I would sell.
Dave
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Hi all,
I've had tons of constructive advice so far, all gratefullly received, BUT I am desperate for purely serious help this time. I am currently moored up at an important junction, just about west of a tunnel 1 and 1/4 miles long on the grand union. I have been slipped out this morning, with the intention being of having two coats of "Intertuf" put on my hull. We left the boat at 12.20, after having it pressure washed about an hour before. Weather here was good.. firm breeze, no rain, so hopefully the boat was nearly dry. We returned to the boat @ 6 hours later, to be told that we had had TWO coats applied, and that we would be back in the water tomorrow. My dilemma is.. the people KNOW we are new to this, but I can't sit around and distrust people all the time? Therefore, is this feasible? Two coats of intertuf in one day? I'm seriously worried about this, as its a lot of money... and please.. no gibes about hanging around and watching the whole process.. we had other stuff to do, and had no reason to distrust this firm? If your advice comes back that its all well and good, then fine; however, if you think I'm being taken for a ride, any ideas how to proceed?
Really crap*ing conkers here,
Martin
6 hours is only enough time to apply two coats if rollered on and one person non stop would take 2- 3 hours per coat if done thoroughly. If more than one person then definite issues of drying time between coats. Touch dry does not equate to fully dry - imagine paint overcoated too soon.
My advice to resolve your anxiety would be to insist upon staying out of the water for at least twenty four hours after the last coat was applied and insist upon a further coat being applied and then wait another 24 hours for drying before going back into the water.
If this is not going to happen then you must wait 24 hours after last application then re-negotiate the cost for single coat.
We take three days to apply 2 coats, day one, early docking, steam clean scraping,steam clean, drying and first coat applied pm. Day two, second coat day 3 drying day. Day 4 early docking back into the water. much cheaper also - Next time ?. Dave
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I'm not sure if this has been asked before, but I have recently acquired one of the boats used by Julius Caesar to invade Britain in 54BC. My question is, how many slaves do I need to row it, and how often should they be whipped?
Firstly, as you should know, a survey should have answered some of these questions, I suggest that you get back on to your surveyor. If he is worth his salt he should be able to answer these questions. if however you were reckless enough to purchase without a survey:-
slaves are quite an old power source nowadays and they will almost certainly not be as powerful as original slaves. there are also issues of mandatory breaks, The work time directive etc etc. As for whipping done properly once should be sufficient although again changes in legislation may well mean that whipping may be frowned upon.
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Ok, if you are even trying to warm up the glow plugs for 2-3 minutes they are not working. If you can check the current they are drawing with a clamp meter. If not then a voltmeter will have to do. there should be 12v when in heat position if yes but still not hot then one or more glow plugs are dead. It is unusual for all of them to fail at once but even one will affect cold starting.
If you do not have a clamp meter, yes they will get hot enough to feel it and after 2-3 minutes the wires to them will also be glowing so a fair bet they are dead if cold.
If you do decide to remove them be careful, if they have not been out for a while they may stick and the ends snap off. Use a good quality socket or ring spanner and ease them out carefully, 1/2 turn out 1/4 turn back in again. when you replace them a smear of copper slip will help in future. now to start the engine in the mean time. Do not use easy start it damages engines and is a last resort. remove the air filter and aquire a blow torch. Turn over the engine and at the same time point the blow torch into the air inlet, you may need to keep it on for a few seconds after it fires until the revs pick up. New glow plugs are not expensive and your nearest motor factor should be able to source the from Durite. Also check that either the glow plug relay, if there is one, is working if not then check that the ignition switch is supplying power to them - a volt meter will suffice for this.
Dave
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I remember signs like this springing up in the 1990s. Usually erected unofficialy by the householder. Then BW seemed to accede to the householders wishes and make it official. These objectors are related to those who move to a vilage and object to church bells being rung, or cattle lowing, I can wholly understand an objection to a boat that rund an engine or a generator for prolonged periods, but otherwise I have no sympathy at all. A good example near me is the embankment at Ansty on the North Oxford. You used to be able to moor there, now signs tell you you can't. Ridiculous.
Anywy. must dash. It's time to disturb my cockerel just as the neighbours are settling into "Strictly" on Sky Plus.
Farmer nearby did have complaints about his cows mooing as he was completely gobsmacked he just put a sign up in the field saying 'no moooooing after 9 pm. complainer rang again and called him some unkind things!!
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diesel price is worked out using the following formula
All Gas Oil has an element of duty in it this is 11p per litre
Gas oil used for propulsion has 56p per litre, this includes the 11p per litre above.
VAT is then payable on the total amount. Currently gas oil used at 60/40 propulsion / domestic would work out at £1.10 per litre.
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Ah, you'll know. Isn't there a way of linking tillers together on two butties using that hole and the end of the tiller arm?
Richard
Butty's don't have rudders or tillers but Elums
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as with all things, Compromise compromise.................. 3" is fine to sit on as you can have a stiffer foam, however not comfortable to sleep on. So 4" thick ( or even 5" although quite bulky) and of medium density ie. softer than sit on cushions firmer than pure bed mattress. try classic upholstery at hillmorton - dave is very helpful and experienced with boaters
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Try www.jaywolfe.co.uk for bespoke stainless steel tanks. they do a lot for the trade
dave
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definitely a prm almost certainly a 140. The canister on the front(back?) is an oil filter. If it is in good order - well done if not hard luck all of the parts for it are out of production, all parts are imperial all new boxes are metricated had the problem several times. It is possible to put a complete new gear set into the box but last time i spoke to PRM the cost was prohibitive. I fyou do need any parts it may be worth ringing me - I am sure we have one here some where!!
Dave 07812039110
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any beta warranty will be invalidated if non beta filters are used during the warranty period
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they are actually called oxford shirts. Try the oxford shirt company in burford. just google 'oxfordshirt'
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adhesive foam window tape - sticky on one side only, stick it to the window put window in, job done
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tradline ropes & Fenders in Braunston - they have awebsite also
Continuous cruising case - liveaboard homes at risk
in General Boating
Posted
what rubbish, BW will not render anyone homeless who complies with their legal obligations as laid out in the license terms and conditions.~if you chooose to ignore the rules then you will render yourself homeless. TAKE RESPONSILITY FOR YOUR OWN ACTIONS. What they are seeking to do is to prevent anyone from illegally taking up a pemanent mooring spot to which they are not entitled. Boater or not you have to pay your way in life and just because it does not suit you to pay for amooring does not mean that you can choose to ignore the law.