pete harrison
-
Posts
4,204 -
Joined
-
Last visited
-
Days Won
4
Content Type
Profiles
Forums
Events
Gallery
Blogs
Store
Posts posted by pete harrison
-
-
1 minute ago, Darrenroberts said:
Right is see was Noah Hingley a carrier or company? We’ve discussed this before Pete, about Priston and I’ve still been going through any old photos I find of day boats with a magnifying glass for that illusive “107” but I carnt recall wether I actually sent you a photo of the two plates I have which where in the bow. Any way here they are. Do they look like s+l plates or have u seen any that look like this before?
I would say these are enthusiast / owner made plates. I am not aware of S&L fitting plates to their boats, instead having a fleet number painted in white on the inside of the fore end and stern end - but this was not unique to S&L.
Noah Hingley, Netherton was a black country foundry owner (amongst other things) and operated numerous day boats across that area. When Noah Hingley & Sons Ltd. ended their business some of their boats ended up with S&L, as did the boats of numerous other carriers
-
1 hour ago, Darrenroberts said:
Do you recall the numbers of the two day boats on the hard standing there in the background, is the front one in s+l colours?
Back in the 1970's I was not very interested in numbers or boat history, but very interested in boating and learning the skills involved in all of the aspects of boating I could. I did not have a great interest in B.C.N. day boats back then, but went on too many to remember) as they were still everywhere, with quite a number still in trade mostly as rubbish boats or hoppers. I only developed an interest in B.C.N. day boats when I acquired a set of B.C.N. Company gauge registers in the early 2000's.
Having said that the iron day boat on the bank looks like BESSIE to me, which is BCN 14695 and fleet number 18 for its first owner and 112 for Stewarts and Lloyds Ltd.. I am unable to identify the wooden day boat at present but I suspect it will have come from S&L.
edit = When we cleared out the redundant day boats from Stewarts and Lloyds Ltd. in 1976 the ends of the boats were lettered with S&L (red top bends) and British Steel Corporation (blue top bends) in equal(ish) numbers, and I think some may still have had Noah Hingley on them
-
1
-
-
1 hour ago, Pluto said:
The boatyard being built. I was working on getting the lifting bridge operational at the time.
39 minutes ago, billybobbooth said:I do remember seeing boats launched from there long ago now
As far as making buildings out of boat bottoms is concerned it has been going on for donkeys years, and the Black Country Museum was keen for us to break these old boats up at that time. Funny how things change and people have got all dewy eyed and fluffy clouded about these boats now.
I pulled a day boat (S&L 101) up onto this dock a couple of times in the late 1970's using nothing more that a turfer and a couple of jacks, and of course it only needed a jack to put it back in again. Those were good times and loads of fun, but I am quite sure it would not be allowed nowadays - especially as this dock now has a brick face against the water.
edit = the Ice-Boat is NORTH STAR
-
9 minutes ago, Sara Strawson said:
That is amazing, thank you.
Although there is a huge amount of work to do, we are really excited to find so much information about her on this site. Photos and film, as well as information about the Idle Women. I will thoroughly enjoy researching and finding out more about her.
I don\t, know a huge amount about the working boats but have been fascinated by them since a boating holiday in the 70's. I have been watching some of the videos on here and know she was a butty. Not sure, as yet, what a Woolwich butty is but would be interested to know more. I am an avid history fan so finding Vela has a past I can look into is fantastic. It will make the hard work making her good so much more worthwhile.
At the moment she has a wooden cabin and we want to keep that, at least repair it, trying to keep her as 'original' as possible at least on the outside but also aware she has gone through more than one transformation.
I look forward to learning more and thank you for your help so far.
Woolwich is a reference to where it was built = Harland and Wolff Ltd., North Woolwich, London.
Small is a reference to the depth of the hull from gunwale to bottom of the bottom = 4'2'' for VELA (medium = 4'6'' and large = 4'9'').
butty refers to a boat that is unpowered but used in tow behind another boat, more commonly referred to as such when towed by a motor narrow boat.
Please do not be intimidated by the knowledge on here and keep asking questions, but it might be better to start a new subject (thread) specific to VELA.
-
2
-
-
20 minutes ago, Sara Strawson said:
Hi,
We have recently bought Vela, last week in fact, and I have found some of the posts on this forum fascinating. You say that Vela was the stern end, does that mean the stern we have was the original? Having looked at several of the photos here she looks quite different. We now seem to have a flat traditional stern rather than the one in some of the photos. Do you know what happened to the other half?
She is in a bit of a state, needing a lot of work before we can live aboard with comfort. In the meantime I will enjoy seeing the film and photos as we have yet to decide on livery.
Thank you
VELA was built as a 71'6'' unpowered small Woolwich butty, i.e. it was designed to be towed behind a powered boat or motor. Once out of trade VELA was cut in two, with each end rebuilt into pleasure boats - the original fore end being used as a fore end and the original stern also used as a fore end, and both fitted with conventional counter sterns. The boat you have bought is the original stern being used as a fore end.
Do you know much about these old working boats
edit - the photographs on Ebay when VELA was for sale a few weeks ago showed it having a welded conventional counter stern rather than a 'flat traditional stern'. I am sure there is some confusion in the terms you / we are using - and congratulations on your acquisition.
-
3 minutes ago, billybobbooth said:
from the pics I've seen she has been stripped of everything except the bolinder.
Cost wise I know it would cost big money hence my low offer.
I see what Pete is saying about putting the bolly in towy but I'm not going to rip apart a boat when it can still be saved, diffrent if her back was broken and splitting at every seam.
My heart wants to saver her as much as my head but my head knows the cost and time of repair. My head if could I would just throw every penny to get her but its not worth financially to do that or sain to do so. So I made the best decision make an offer to save her or pos watch her be broken and watch someone else have the conscious of destroying history for an engine or sold and in future pos have the chance to save her again. Dispide how hard it is. At the end I would have to then sell towy and that would be a hard choice too but I know its not wise to have 2 wooden boats and dane would always win over towy
As a teenager I broke up several wooden boats so that their bottoms could be used for the walls of buildings at The Black Country Museum. Perhaps I am fortunate in not being sentimental about narrow boats and I have no problem with their 'circle of life'. I like the idea of a boat that is life expired donating its parts to keep others going (as with human organ donation), but I am not meaning parts being built into modern boats to give them some perceived credibility or added value. Every boat can be rebuilt and rebuilt again, but as you say the costs can be prohibitive - and in my opinion this has been the position with wooden narrow boats for a long time, let alone finding people with the skills to maintain / rebuild them properly. Like many owners I am spending far more on my boat restoration than its end value will be, but because my boat is steel hulled it just feels like a better bet long term (but probably isn't).
Of course it is a great shame when any boat is broken up, but this is a part of every boats history whether today, next year or any time in the future. Things seem to have got a lot more sentimental since these boats have become pre-fixed 'historic' - but lets hope that DANE's future can be secured
-
2
-
-
4 hours ago, billybobbooth said:
Well I've enquired about dane but there isn't going to be any room for negotiation. Unfortunately the boat from pics is in a bad way. There is alot gone on sence the last sale in a bad way and you would be looking at buying just the engine that came with a near bare hull.
My low but reasonable offer to save the boat despite alot we sold it with now missing would easily be rejected unfortunately due to the bolly being in her, her future looks bleak and I can see her being stripped for her value parts rather than sold to save ?.
I know i said I would sell towy to get her back but due to her nearly bareness it would be the wrong decision for me and towy.
Seems like a no brainer to me - buy DANE and re-fit the Bolinder into TOWY - offset some of you costs by selling TOWY's National 2DM and asset stripping DANE - sell DANE's remains to a 'dreamer' for £1,00.
The result is you maintain some of your emotional attachment as you will still have DANE's Boliinder - TOWY regains some of its historical relevance - there is the opportunity for a Grand Union motor to regain a historically relevant engine and you put a smile on somebody's face by selling them a boat for £1.00.
Some of this is meant in jest but you can probably see where DANE's future lies
-
1
-
-
1 minute ago, David Mack said:
Didn't Charlie Aldrick own one back in the 70s, moored on the offside at Gas Street basin, in the days when the tow path on that side was closed off, and there was no through access?
Charlie Aldrick owned the 'Runcorn Header' motor RICHARD. I remember it was latterly at Hockley Port but I do not recall seeing it after about 1980
-
31 minutes ago, Balliol said:
Hi Pete,
Thanks for the correction. You are right of course: “Betty” was the header.
Yes, got your pm and replied. Email me directly, just google my name for email address.
Email sent to your business address
-
49 minutes ago, Balliol said:
There was what I believe was a “Runcorn Header” moored as a houseboat at Cowroast in the seventies, then name “Widdicombe Fair” as I recall. Also as I recall it was referred to as a “seven planker,” presumably therefore seven planks, but I will stand corrected.
WIDDECOMBE FAIR was indeed at Cowroast during the 1970's but was a Willow Wren 1962 conversion of the large Ricky COUGHTON, complete with a Seffle 7-8hp. There was another house boat at Cowroast throughout the late 1960's and 1970's that was a 'Runcorn Header' and named BETTY
By 1984 WIDDECOMBE FAIR / COUGHTON ended up in Bristol (goodness knows how it got there as this pre-dates the opening of the K&A), and a friend of mine bought it with a stripped out cabin but retaining the Seffle. The last I heard is that the hulk of this boat is amongst several awaiting attention on the Troy Cut near Rickmansworth
edit = Balliol - did you get my PM regarding health registration certificates, sent several weeks ago.
-
8 minutes ago, billh said:
and the various nick names applied to that type of boat.
And I think this is all these terms are - nick names, some applied historically and passed down and some made up by enthusiasts. I think there will also be regional variations, just as there are with other types of boat. The important thing to me is that when these terms are used we all know the type of boat being referred to, and although I had not previously heard the term 'Runcorn Header' I can instantly identify the type by the similarity to the other terms used
-
52 minutes ago, Heartland said:
I would like to know more about the derivation of the term "Runcorn Header" and their working lives.
I have never heard the term 'Runcorn Header' to describe these boats that were unique to the north western waterways - well not until this thread.
I have heard them called 'Runcorn Boat', 'Bridgewater Boat', 'Simpson Davies' (a company based at Runcorn) and 'Wooden Header', the last of which is the most miss-leading as I understand the header is a reference to the large wooden post built into the stern end and fore deck and is in common with some day boats on the B.C.N. and many of the narrow boats operating on the River Severn, although those on the River Severn are generally known as 'Severner'.
These north western boats are very distinctive as they were huge, in so much that they had a very deep hold (six planks I believe) and a very shallow cabin, along with their headers at each end (as well as a T stud). The vast majority of these boats post 1877 appear on the Runcorn health register and Manchester health register, although much of the latter is incomplete. A handful of motors were later introduced to a similar overall design to the horse boats but with a sort of skirt built around to produce a counter whilst maintaining a horse boat type rudder - again quite unique to the north west. Clearly these boats played an important role as general cargo boats, being built locally and working locally throughout their commercial lives
-
8 minutes ago, billybobbooth said:
Thanks Pete, I couldnt fully remember I was only 5-6 years old, but I remember it being built.
Ironically having built that forecabin your parents bought the butty DITTON two years later
-
2 hours ago, billybobbooth said:
Forecabin was added by dad for me and my brother its based on Giffords sizes and design. As we didnt have a butty we needed extra space
Think was late 80s pos 89 as other work was done. But could be very early 90s
DANE's forecabin was fitted in 1991 according your old man
-
7 minutes ago, Parahandy said:
I stick to the Jaguars however as they are a bit cheaper ?
I am trying to resist buying another Jaguar at the moment, especially as my funds are supposed to be for completing my boat restoration (fully funded) and the purchase of a butty - the latter of which seems to have come to dead end until travel restrictions are lifted, by which time I fear the butty I really want will be sold
-
25 minutes ago, pete harrison said:
The exThomas Clayton (Oldbury) Ltd. one with the 15hp Bolinder and decked hold
2 minutes ago, Parahandy said:Thanks for that
When I bought my boat off the Thames in May 2018 CLARA was in use as a house boat at the river end of the Dukes Cut, Oxford. DANE has been up and down a few times since it was sold via Apollo Duck in the spring of 2018, so not too sure of the £15k valuation put on its Bolinder.
Here is DANE and CLARA at Marsworth
-
1
-
1
-
-
17 minutes ago, Parahandy said:
Hello Pete , which Dane was it that sold on Apollo Duck with the Butty Clara ? I believe this was a Wooden Motor , there are some pictures on the link below
https://noproblem.org.uk/blog/page/84/?iframe=true&width=100%&height=100%
The exThomas Clayton (Oldbury) Ltd. one with the 15hp Bolinder and decked hold
-
4 hours ago, max's son said:
Is the boat Dane or The Dane?
Or is this another boat
DANE was its commercial boat name, but only under Thomas Clayton (Oldbury) Ltd., and THE DANE was its pleasure boat name - one of the same boat, but not to be confused with the Mersey, Weaver and Ship Canal Carrying Company Ltd. wooden motor of the same name
-
1 hour ago, Derek R. said:
https://www.apolloduck.com/boat/yarwoods-river-class/638242
"River class" ???? What is it with Appallingduck?
Back to blue again. But what have they done that makes it sound like a single? It never knocked like that.
I suspect the reference to 'river class' might have something to do with the handful of blue tops currently fitted to TYCHO, not that this makes the reference correct
-
1 hour ago, junior said:
Trent 5 has been for sale for ages and i think it's just the advert auto regurgitates itself every so often. I think the price has come down though. Pete keeps an eye on these things so I'm sure he'll confirm or deny if there's been a price decrease.
56 minutes ago, koukouvagia said:Reduced by £5K
TRENT No.5 started at offers over £40k, and is now @ £35k - not nearly as much as TYCHO's depreciating tale of sale
27 minutes ago, Derek R. said:Poetic licence?
Not re-writing anything. Merely stating a fact. And I would not profess to declaring I know why Town class were thus named, other than they were named after towns.
Stop biting Derek - they are winding you up
-
21 minutes ago, magnetman said:
Nice job on the stern. The top tubbing band is a bit thin on the counter compared with the very generous originals on these boats.
Not sure about the 3 pot John Deere engine but you could do worse I suppose.
Last time I was on LITTLE ACORN it was fitted with a Ruston Hornsby, and I think it also had 3 cylinders
-
1
-
-
Back end of an L.M.S.R. Station Boat
https://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/boat/yarwoods-57-traditional/638004
-
1 hour ago, Darrenroberts said:
P.s I was very tempted by the look and how long Hades has been in the marked but again the long term logistics of a butty been towed by my live aboard BCN boat might not be realistic.
11 minutes ago, roland elsdon said:I guess the logistics of towing an empty butty depend on the stern of your bcn boat.
If PRISTON is the boat I am thinking of then it will be too shallow draft and has an aggressive / short swim to make a good towing boat. I was not suggesting a butty would suit the needs of 'Darrenroberts' but that he had reached a psychological milestone as far as 'historic' narrow boats are concerned
-
57 minutes ago, Darrenroberts said:
Thanks Pete To quote man of La Mancha “to dream the impossible dream” thought I’d try chancing my arm, the thinking been with all the chaos going on some owners/ Circumstances may of changed? And if I didn’t ask I wouldn’t know. Not a problem I’ll carry on saving, one day I might be able to get my foot on the ladder as they say.
There is certainly no harm in 'chancing your arm', and who knows what might turn up. As said I think it unlikely that you will find a mainstream family type motor for £20k to 25k, but you are at a point where you could buy a good butty - so there is a positive. My suggestion remains as keep saving and buy something worth having, along with a restoration / improvement fund.
You say that you want to operate a boat for commercial carrying, but do you have any background in this ? If not I would suggest you befriend a fuel boat operator and help out if you can, or even get involved with an organisation such as The Narrow Boat Trust Ltd. who operate a narrow boat pair crewed by volunteers and have a training programme for steerers, with at least two retail coal runs each year and visit shows e.t.c. for the remainder - all very good experience, especially as the volunteers also carry out much of the maintenance
Historic Boats for sale online
in History & Heritage
Posted
This thread has turned into several different topics, so I am not going to respond to anything else unless it is directly related to this threads title 'historic boats for sale online'.
All of these other topics are interesting and I am happy to contribute to them - but they need to be established in their own threads