pmms
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Posts posted by pmms
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We are 32 ins. and got through ok, a bit slow going in the tunnels and the one way stretch into Llangollen, (no probs on the return though!!). We overnighted at Trevor and left as soon as we could see the bow of the boat in the morning thus avoiding oncomming traffic. Hit something in a bridge hole on the way up, and a gentle scrape in the concrete section just outside Ll. but other than that no probs with the depth.
HTH
PM
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The sternwheeler we were on last year has 3 rudders ahead of the paddle wheel, the trailing edges shaped to the radius of the paddle wheel. Hydraulic steering, all aux. power from 2 humungus(?) Cummins turbo diesels, main engine was oil fired steam engine. If i can locate the pics of engine i will post. (Yes, we were allowed in eng rm)
PaulM
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Part 10 is only applicable if the 2002 standards are being applied. There is no pt 10 to the 2005 standards.
Status reports are only used to support the 2002 standards
Paul M
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Richard,
There are over 90 differences between the 2002 BSC checking procedures applicable to hire boats and the 2005 private boat standards. There is also an extra part in the checking procedures Pt 10.
Now not all of these differences will apply to every boat. It is also worth noting that not all examiners are authorized to examine hire boats, I would suggest that you contact the BSS office and ask for a list of authorized hire boat examiners in your area then contact one and talk it over with him/her. If your chosen examiner is not gas safe registered then the boat will need a bubble tester in the system, or a gas safe registered engineer will need to carry out the soundness test, and the examiner will need to observe that test, it is not acceptable for the examiner to accept a gas certificate for a test he has not observed.
Note that there are no advisory standards for hire boats, there are however exemptions for some standards depending on the age of the boat and in Pt7 depending on the date of fitment of equipment.
HTH
Paul M
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If we are talking here of the Lucas/CAV/Delphi type 296 filter assemblies, back in the very early days of the bss lucas/cav were asked to certify their glass filter bowls as meeting the requirements of the bss and they declined, so not allowed.
Paul M
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My brother has been given a new Lucas diesel filter which has a glass bowl under. The glass is rather thick but I thought i'd heard that glass bowls are now not allowed under the BSS rules. Someone said that putting it a distance from the engine may allow it to pass, the diesel tank is 6 feet from the engine so we can manage that far.
Regards
Gary
Glass bowl filters are allowed, IF they are either (1) outside the engine space, or (2) certified as compliant with the fire resistant standards of iso 10088. The 10088 filters are very expensive though.
Paul M
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I life belt ring jobbie?
If so i will get it out of my conservatory and take back to the boat!
BTW I am on a canal not a river.
No requirement for a life buoy on a private (non hire) boat for the BSS regardless of where you cruise.
It may however be a condition of your navigation authority, BW/EA/Broads etc, as a condition of your licence, and of course your insurance Co. may require certain safety equipment to be carried
Paul M
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I was wondering if people on the forum had any recommendations for Surveyors in the Oxford Area.
Try Barrie Morse in Banbury
Paul M
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I am trying to find out if Cauldon Boat Builders are still trading or not? I was trying to gainsome information on a boat they fitted out back in 2004?
they have stopped building boats and are no longer in their factory unit. I believe they stopped when they no longer had any orders and were not prepared to build on spec.
Paul M
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Speedwheel
Just to be strictly accurate, a non gas safe registered examiner may examine boats subject to the GS(I&U)R's if a bubble tester is fitted or he (she) observes a test carried out by a gas safe registered person.
Paul M
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I read Baldocks original query as relating to compliance with the bss for private boats. Agas pipe may pass thru a diesel engine space, but may not pass thru an electrical space/battery space unless in a gas tight conduit. Now, how the engine space is fitted out MAY require a conduit, its difficult to be definitive without eyes on the boat.
JR
How can someone be doing tests when not registered with BSS?
Mike
If a boat is built to BS PD 5482 pt3 how does it fall short of the RCD requirementa?
Paul M
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Hi we have a 3HD46, which is a 3.152 but poshed up by the marketing team (IMHO) the manual that came with the engine, which was factory supplied new in 1993 specifies various grades but points out that you should avoid to high a grade (in API terms) if the engine is lightly loaded. Now we use Morris's straight 30 API cc all year round, our normal cruising revs are 750- 1000 on the canals and a little higher on rivers depending on flow. When on the Thames for 4 months I slipped an extra oil/filter change in. If you need any more info just post a question or PM me and I will dig the manual out and post. (I dont want to disturb the skipper at this time of night!!!)
HTH
Paul M
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The one aspect of all this is, can I, as a boat owner, but not Gas Safe registered, do my own soundness test on my boat's gas system at my own risk and demonstrate to a BBS SS fuhrer that it's OK?
Can't find anything that prevents me doing it so far.
Tone
Tone
as you know, if your boat is "private", within the meaning of the GS(I&U)R's, there is no requirement to be registered. You should of course be competent to carry out any work on your gas system, and be prepared to prove that competence should an accident occur.
As to you demonstrating a soundness test that would be a matter between you and your examiner.
BTW what is a "BBS SS fuhrer"?
Paul M
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But if he is not Gas Safe registered he would be breaking the law even doing that because if he isn't registered he can't legally crack the test point blank.
Tone
Tone
that was the point I made in my penultimate para. When invited to put the point (re requiring registration to break into the test point of a private boat) to law, HSC& CORGI declined.
Paul M
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I was a gas engineer for a while. H2O plumbing and heating based at St Albans in the late 90s.
Not all Gas Safe (ex-CORGI) engineers are qualified to check bottled gas installations, something worth remembering.
Not that many BSS examiners are gas qualified either.
There was a time when they were sent on a day's gas awareness course (at our expense) and they thought they would come back with a CORGI registration, but not so. That's why they are so keen on recommending bubble testers on boats..
Tone
If I could add a bit of history to the subject of BSS examiners and the LPG soundness testing carried out during the Boat Safety Examination. The soundness test is a direct lift from BS5482 Pt3 ( which morphed into BS PD5482 Pt3, because the BSEN 10239, european standard was so poor).
Examiners are currently trained at Evesham college, which is a gas operatives training establishment.
Examiners are subjected to a 5 yearly CPD on gas testing.
Examiners who examine craft subject to the provisions of the Gas Safety(installation & use)Regulations are required to be Gas Safe registered unless the system is fitted with a bubble tester, or he observes a test carried out by a registered person. Private craft not subject to the GS(I&U)R do require the person carrying out the test to be competent and this is achieved by the BSS's training and CPD.
At the time of my training (1996) there was much discussion between CORGI, EA/BW, HSC over the need, or not, for examiners to be CORGI registered when testing private boats, It was my understanding that the then chief exec. of BW invited the HSC/CORGI to take EA/BW to court if they thought that should be the case. NFA.
Bubble tester are fine, but I have seen them fitted the wrong way round, no fluid in the bowl and the wrong size tester fitted for the size of the system.
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Hi
we have had a Kabola Old Dutch OD4 for 11 years now, I fully endorse the previous comments re diesel v solid fuel. I think its v important not to install a stove that is to large, in terms of output, as these drip feed type stoves can easily carbon up if run at to low a setting, ours is rated at 4kw and is probably a tad large for us, I believe they now do a 3kw version which would be just right. ( the boat is a 62ft trad with engine rm and back cabin) so we are mainly using the stove in the front section of the boat. Flue height is important, as is the need to avoid a cold spot where the flu passes thru the deckhead. we have a 12" double skinned chimney for cruising (with the void between the skins stuffed with insulation) and a 28"double skinned, again with the void insulated, when static.
Hope this helps
Paul M
NB Enchantress
PS I believe that the type of valve fitted to some stoves being sold to the inland market are designed for domestic use, everyone I know who has one of this type hates them and always seems to be stripping them down. In 11 yrs our valve has never been taken apart, nor does it need "setting up" on installation, ask your supplier if setting up of the valve is required, if so tread carefully, and if not designed for use in a boat, avoid. IMHO
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Hi Paul
Most people
e avoid the use of metalic conduit, "plastic" is cheaper lighter and non corroding but there is no requirement for the wiring to be in conduit. You should note that pvc insulated cables should not be allowed to come into contact with polystyrene insulation, as there is a reaction between the two materials that leeches the plasticisers out of the pvc and breaks the insulation down.
HTH
Paul M
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Hi assuming we are talking about a private boat, single insulated cables are required to be clear of gas, and fuel, pipes. Double insulated cables are not subject to the proximity check.
FYI the 30mm separation mentioned WAS applicable prior to the 2005 standards being adopted, it is still applicable to hire, commercial and residential craft subject to the Gas Safety (installation & use) regulations for which the BSS 2002 apply.
Hope this helps
Paul M
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was this for the Marsworth resi moorings? We looked at those back in 2001 but they were very poor resi moorings, on the towpath, you had to move (albeit not very far) for facilities no official car parking and a shared mail box, in the end we applied for ( and got ) one at Stoke Bruerne, expensive but lovely mooring and nice people to boot.
Paul M
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If as a BSS edxaminer I find come across something that I consider unsafe that is outside the BSS remit, I inform the owner and give him written copy of my findings (usually on a form "E" a copy of which will be kept in my records, it would not prevent the issue of a certificate (Unless it really scared me, then I tell the whole world!)
Similarly I do the same with elderly gas hoses (6-7 years) that otherwise appear to be in good condition advising that they be replaced when practical. It is part of my CYA procedure. (Cover your ass)
Edited to change "find" to "come across" I do not activlly "look" for defects outside my remit.
Hi Alan
Im sorry if I gave the impression that examiners should ignore any potentially unsafe issues he may come across, although the form E was designed for another purpose I to used it as you describe.
My last line was our lecturers mantra as, in the early days of the scheme many examiners were imposing their own interpretation of the requirements and causing boat owners unnecessary expense.
In the early days of the scheme I used to attend boat clubs and marinas giving talks to boat owners on the requirements, and briefing owners on the requirements, cutting thru the bull***t and misinformation that abounded at the time (1996)
I'm always glad to find a professional examiner, please PM me with your contact details and area(s) of operation.
Paul M
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I think anybody needs to be careful about what any person or document said about anything even a few years back.
As has already been pointed out, the BSS regulations got a heavy re-write in 2005, (for private boats), and that re-write overturned requirements in previous versions, including the 2002 version still applying to other classes of boat.
I have always found the 2005 regs quite clear on what is allowed, and what is not allowed, (and indeed what is just advisory).
One may not agree with the logic behind some of it, but that's not really the point. It is actually quite easy to see if you have met the requirements of an LPG system on a boat or not, in my view.
That's not to say there are not some grey areas. For example despite properly specified flexible hoses carrying a date of manufacture, (which of course is not the same date they first became exposed to LPG!), the regs to not actually specify a period of time after which an examiner should fail such a hose, even if visually it looks OK, (which a braided one generally might be expected to, even if the inside was "shot"). Our boat had passed a BSS in late 2003 with hoses dated from it's original build in 1995, so assuming the examiner checked the tags, he was apparently unworried that they were already 8 years old, and would be 12 years old before the next BSS was due. I'm not sure I could support such a judgement, so I changed them!
Apart from specific areas like this, not adequately covered, I think people need to get away from what they believe to be the case, (or what was once the case, or what might be the case in a domestic installation, but not a boat), and actually look closely at what the 2005 BSS regulations really say in respect of private boats.
Alan
You make a good point about the life of LPG hoses, for many years Calor have been promoting a 5 yr life for LPG hoses but the scheme have been reluctant to specify a life, preferring instead to go the condition of the hose.
I have seen many hoses that were unserviceable after a very short time, particularly hoses exposed to UV light. The issue of braid covered hoses is one that has been debated since I started in the scheme (1996) and has still not been resolved, the only good thing is that the galvanized covering seems to have disappeared in favour of the stainless variety.
I fully agree with your well made point Re regulations that refer to domestic installations/obsolete regulations
As I have said before on the forums "If its not on the (check) list it dont exist" In this case for list read BSS Guide.
Paul M
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ok , Dave_2A
Is the cooker connected by a flexible hose?
if yes then an isolation valve IS required, and BTW that has always been a requirement.
IF the cooker was a single appliance then the cylinder valve can serve as the isolation valve (not the case here)
If the cooker is connected by solid pipe then no isolation valve required
I am assuming that we are talking about a private boat here and not a hire/commercial craft
Paul M
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My understanding it that it doesn't have to be 'as far away as possible'. 25mm is the clearance required between any gas pipe and any electrical wire.
We don't get told the reasons for regulations, standards etc. They just get published and we are told we'll be safe if we follow them, but we are left to speculate on the reasoning behind them. So it might be sparks, it might be something else, it might be that it just seems intuitively incorrect to allow gas pipes and wires to be bundled together.
In reality the minimum distance regularly gets ignored. Even inside boilers I regularly see electrical conductors and gas pipes closer than 25mm as part of the design of the appliance! I never see any negative consequences.
Mike
I cannot see any specified distance in standard 3.3.2 merely a requirement for the cables to be "clear" (private boat) If a hire boat then 30mm clearance required unless double insulated (although the standards do not mention this, it was a technical update to examiners, if memory serves) or in non conductive conduit.
Paul M
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Sorry for the late reply, I've dipped the tank today and since the 8th October we have used 8ltrs/day. That is battery charging off the engine (tired batteries so min of 4hrs running) and diesel heating, Kabola old dutch (with Eco fan!!).
When cruising earlier in the year we were using 6lts when on the Trent and 4 on canals.
Boat is 62ft (David Thomas trad with 14ft swims 32" draught) Engine is Perkins 3HD46 factory supplied with twin lucas A127M altenators, Twin Adverc controller wired as per their wiring diagram. Prop is 19x14 Make unknown.
On shallow canals engine revs are never above 1000 and more likely 800.
HTH
Paul M
What's that smell :)
in General Boating
Posted
Well Alan, I can see nothing in the BSS pt 7 that prevents your gas bottles being in the accommodation, (private boat I presume?), IF they were in a complying cyl locker. As far as I am aware there was no wish to apply the requirements of the BS 5482pt 3 1998 to older boats when they were incorporated into the BSS in 2000, (Im talking about FSD/FFDs here) mainly on cost grounds
Paul M