Colin Smith
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Posts posted by Colin Smith
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Could some kind person offer advice please!
I have a new Barrus Shire 65hp engine (Yanmar 4TNV98) which has done about 4 hours + the run-in time. The engine starts on the button 1st time no problem but then cuts out after anything from 2 mins to 30mins. It will always re-start but then cuts out again.
I've cleaned out the water trap, pump and all the fuel lines. The first time I did this, I found some plastic swarf in the pump inlet (there is a Vetus Plastic fuel tank fitted). The system is now clear but the engine still cuts out after again, anything from a few minutes to 30 minutes.
This is driving me mad and I have to move the barge today - a 3 hour trip!
One thing I did notice is that the fuel hose from the tank goes to the pump, then on to the water-trap/filter, then to the fuel filter, then to the injector pump. Seems odd to me because I would have expected the pump to be fitted in between the water-trap and the fuel filter ie. tank to water-trap to pump to fuel filter.
The Barrus book (although lacking in any detail) indicates that the fuel line should go to the pump first and then to the water-trap but the Yanmar manual states that the fuel line should go to the water-trap then to the pump!!!!!?????
Another thing......the water-trap is positioned on the side of the step-plate which is bolted at the end of the block at cylinder head level. This puts it about the same height as about 1/3 of the way up from the bottom of the tank. Shouldn't the water-trap be lower than the bottom of the tank??
My solution so far is to move the water-trap to a position lower than the tank. clean it all out again (although I didn't find anything/any muck in the system) and connect it up as per the Yanmar book: tank to water-trap to pump to filter to injector pump.
BUT haven't run it yet as this seems to be 'wrong' in terms of the Barrus book.
So, could anyone suggest anything with regard to the original problem and/or solutions??
Many thanks in advance!
Colin
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Update........
My BW license arrived in the post today....2 months on from the original application. I have two nice new plates with the index number on and the license docs to display.........
erm, the license has been back dated to the beginning of January?????
and there I was thinking that I'd got through the BW mire....ho hum. Back on the 'phone again on Tuesday....
Colin
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What a distressing story. I have observed that this shock and awe tactic is what BW specialise in. Drop a bombshell and sit back. Over the years I’ve been on the receiving end of several such bombshells:
* “Your mooring fee is going up immediately by three hundred percent”
* “The electrical installation on your mooring is unsafe and will cost the tenants £30k to put right.”
*“We’ve changed the rules about breasted up boats and you owe us an extra £1000 per year.”
All of these demands came out of the blue with no attempt to soften the blow or ask to speak to me and explain things first.
I was able to do nothing about the mooring fee hike and my son who was living on the butty had to look for another mooring. The electrical installation had minor faults which were put right at negligible cost and BW backed down over the breasted-up butty.
I expect that while you were reeling from the bombshell your main priority was to find another mooring. But did you challenge BW’s reason for refusing to give you a licence? The BW’s complaints procedure does work – first at a local level then if you’re not satisfied at a corporate level and finally, if there’s been maladministration, a few cases even reach the Ombudsman. I have found the further up the BW hierarchy you go the more reasonable the response. I agree with an earlier posting that ranting and anger are counter-productive, but I certainly wouldn’t let matters drop, even though you have found an alternative mooring.
BW's reason for not sending out the license was that I'd applied for one based on having a mooring, which as far as they were concerned, I didn't - even though I'd paid for it! I did think of raising a formal complaint especially because it took them the best part of two months to tell me. However, I decided to back off at the time because they'd given me some time ('til Easter) to sort something out. I was very lucky and have found an alternative but I've no idea what I would have done if I couldn't. The only options were to CC - not very practical with a very wide barge, go into a new marina @ £4k/year or lift it out and take it somewhere else.
I'm now sorted and much wiser about the machinations of BW. My longer term plan is to get the barge finished and then ship it to France for a new life of sun, wine, much simpler rules and far better/cheaper living! So I'm looking forward to the day when BW, DVLA, HMRC and all the rest can get stuffed and I can really begin to enjoy life afloat on my dream barge!
Cheers,
Colin
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Here it is Colin - managed to find some time:
+(($D$3/20)^1.3*20/E3^1.3)*60
AH
110
current minutes
100.............28
90...............32
80...............36
70...............44
60...............54
50...............68
40...............90
30...............132
20..............224
10..............552
If you want to keep the battery size constant, eg 110AH and plot the discharge time in minutes against various currents, then you need to keep the AH constant by enclosing it in $ signs.
In this formula, square D3 contains the AH of the battery, eg: 110. You must write $D$3. The "$" sign tells Excel to always go to the same square, ie: D3 is a constant.
Column E contains the current list in the formula with E3 containing 100A in this formula. So 90A will be in E4 etc. Just insert the formula in F3 and then copy and paste to the other rows. Your error may have been in not using the $ signs to assign a constant. If you don't do this, then on the next row after the first, the program will look in D4 instead of D3 for the battery AH figure.
Note also (I should have put this in my previous post) that you should only discharge to 50% to avoid damaging the battery. Therefore the formula above should contain a factor of 2 for a real-life situation as follows:
+(($D$3/20)^1.3*20/E3^1.3)*60/2
so the actual table should be:
AH
110
current minutes
100.............14
90...............16
80...............18
70...............22
60...............27
50...............34
40...............45
30...............66
20..............112
10..............276
Chris
Fantastic! Thanks Chris - owe you a beer for that!
I've been playing around with this and got some very interesting results for the bank that I have. Interestingly enough, the figures provided by my battery supplier compared to the calculations using your formula are almost identical.
Next thing Im going to do is look at the charging times required, for a given drain on the battery pack, by charging method - alternators via the Sterling controller or shore-power charger. This should keep my brain busy for a bit!!
Thanks again,
Colin
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I have 40-odd light fittings on the barge - all of which are LED. A combo of MR16 and G4 type lamps (bulbs). A few things to bear in mind:
A lot of LED lamps such as those sold for domestic downlighters are not suitable for fitting on a boat. They can be rated at 12 volts but your system may have higher voltages at times (when charging etc) so it's not unusual for LED lamps to fail unless you have a regulated supply. The better quality lamps have a voltage regulator built in so will handle it.
There are various types of LED lamps. Some have a cluster of small 3 or 5mm LED's, some with SMD LED's (look like a little yellow square) and some of the MR16/MR11 type use 3 x Cree high-power LED's.
The SMD type give superior performance to the 3/5mm ones and the Cree type (better again) are available with 3-7Watt outputs which give excellent light. LED's also come in a range of 'angles'. Some are pretty directional with a beam angle of 45' - suitable for a spot or reading light whilst others are available with angles of 120' - suitable for general downlights.
They're all available in 'cool white' or 'warm white'. The warm white are very similar to the less severe colour you get from halogens and the cool white lights are better suited to areas you want 'crisper' illumination.
I have 120' Cree 3Watt Warm White MR16's in the center of the roof and 90' SMD G4 1.8Watt warm white along each side of the roof (it's a wide boat!). I have cool white light over the galley and in the bathroom. All the lamps have a built in voltage regulator. I spent a long time finding the right source and have been delighted with the quality. As a distributor, I managed to get a good deal on them although the volume I buy is more than the requirement for a single boat!
Having seen the damage/scorch marks and shrunken foam insulation caused by the heat halogens give off, I would never use them but LED's still need some breathing space. Contrary to popular belief, LED lamps or rather the voltage regulator fitted, do give off a bit of heat (that's why the MR16's usually have an aluminium outer heat-sink) but nothing like the heat from halogens. If you're going to use the MR16 type, allow a minimum of 60mm from the bottom of the bulb to the insulation and 10mm clearance around it. For that reason, most will probably be limited to the G4 type which sit inside the ususal capsule-type fitting.
A good quality, voltage regulated 1.8Watt G4 SMD lamp will cost about £7.50 and use around 150mA. A good quality, voltage regulated 3Watt Cree MR16 lamp will cost around £12.00 and use about 400mA.
Forget obtaining fittings from chandlers. They tend to be double the price of other suppliers. I got a load of fittings from www.toolstation.com. They're all cast rather than cheap pressed metal. I had enough roof space to get away with IP65 waterproof MR16 fittings for the bathroom (£3.58 each) and for the other MR16 type (£3.42 each). The G4 type were under £3.00 each but I think they've stopped selling them now and list some at £5.22 each.
Colin
Colin
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I posted a thread several weeks ago about how long it took to get a license from BW. I'd not gone back to that thread deliberately because I was in the middle of "negotiations" with various BW people and didn't want to rock the boat...........This is my experience as a first-timer on the canals and a new barge owner.........and a warning to anybody who is about to get onto the water for the first time!
New barge due to be ready for transport to the water at the beginning of February this year.
New license application sent together with my card details, RCD declaration etc etc as required to BW at the end of January (by courier recorded delivery).
1st week of Feb, ring BW to check that all received and in action: None of my details/application are "on the system" - this apparently takes a week but it's OK to put the barge in the water. Launch the boat and head down to the mooring. Pay my new Landlord for 3 months mooring and feel very happy with my new adventure!
2nd week of Feb, ring BW to check that all received and in action: Details just put "on the system" but will be another week before any action due to 'checks'
a few days later, ring BW to check progress: details sent to Leeds for processing.
3rd week of Feb, ring BW to check progress: details still at Leeds. Customer Service person will chase and come back to me..................nothing, no call back.
4th week of Feb, ring BW to check progress: details still at Leeds. Customer Service person will chase and come back to me..................nothing, no call back.
a couple of day's later.......ring BW to check progress: details still at Leeds so ring Leeds office. Details gone to the (another) local office for 'confirmation of mooring'
1st week of March, ring BW to check progress: details at Leeds so ring Leeds office. Details not come back from local office so nothing they can do but will chase and come back to me.........they did come back but don't know why there is a delay. Advised to call back in a few days.
2nd week of March, ring BW Leeds to check progress: details not come back from local office so ring local office at Northwich......
..........the bombshell.............
The delay has been caused because my mooring is "not recognised as a long-term mooring". I cannot keep the boat there even if it is OK with my Landlord because "he may own the land but we own the canal" and BW will not issue my license until I find an alternative mooring. My initial happiness at finally finding the resources, fantastic builder, great mooring and new life are flattened in one stomp. Having spent nearly 2 years hunting for the mooring, I'm now faced with "either finding a new mooring or removing the boat from the canal".
To be fair, the person at Northwich although firm about their stance was sympathetic and gave me until Easter to sort something out. I went over to the barge to remember why I'm doing this.....and stuck to it was a BW 'move it' notice......thanks.
3rd week of March, start walking the bank looking for anything......talking to anybody and everybody......possibility of a mooring a bit further up the canal...start praying and hoping but difficult to get hold of the chap who has the possible space.
4th week of March. Got hold of the chap and got hold of a mooring....rushed to speedy bank to get cash to secure it. Ring BW local office with the good news. Told I'd have to re-apply in writing because they can't change the details on my documents (mooring location).
They will send out new docs but they will date the license from my original application (1st Feb) so at the 'old price'. By now the original cash that I'd set aside for the license had dwindled a bit (more expensive mooring) so I also asked to change from a lump sum to Direct Debit to spread the cost over the year. Told no problem, just complete the DD mandate.
Today, BW take £600 from my bank account. Ring BW Customer Services. Told by an ignorant muppet that it's all been processed and I can't have my money back. I'd have to send in the changes to the application in writing (this is what I was told I had to do anyway or they wouldn't/couldn't process it). If I did that, they 'might' refund me and set up a DD.
Made 7 telephone calls to BW Customer Services, the Leeds office, BW Head Office (who have an ansaphone message apologising because they can't accept any calls at the moment!!!!). Eventually managed to get hold a person who promised to look into it after I threatened to contact my Banks Fraud dept and report them, cancel the card payment and pay them a visit. A great chap from 'the 3rd floor' called me back and quickly. Not his job or department but took all the details, got me to email a DD mandate to him, then rang me back to tell me he has arranged the refund, sorted the paperwork and will get the license out to me tomorrow.
and the moral of this tale..........Even if you BELIEVE you have found a mooring...
Check with the LOCAL BW office (not Customer Services or regional offices) that they are OK with it AND get some sort of written confirmation before you (or your boat) take the plunge and part with any money.
BW is like so many other so-called 'public bodies'. They forget that WE own the waterways they supposedly manage on our behalf. If you have to deal with them, be prepared to get heavy to get what you have a right to and forget trying to get anywhere with 'Customer Services'. Push hard and demand to talk to someone in management.
I'm fortunate that my original Landlord was on my side although there was little he could do in the time available and the person at the BW local office gave me some time to sort it out. Like a previous thread mentioned, there are some decent people at BW who will try to help and will take ownership of a problem. Unfortunately, none of them are in "Customer Services".
Colin
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Your calculation is spot on Colin. I'll work out the formula syntax for Excel and post it on here but it won't be till Wednesday.
Chris
Thanks Chris, very kind of you!
Cheers,
Colin
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The capacity discharge of a battery vs current is far from being linear, it is a curve. So manufacturers quote a single point on that curve (normally, but not always) the 20 hr rate in order to be able to state some figure of merit for capacity.
An analogy I have used on here before is that of a car's fuel consumption. Let's say it's 25mpg. But we all know that it's not 25mpg at all speeds and we know also that the fuel consumption is not linear. If it's quoted as 25mpg at a steady 40mph, we would not expect it to be 50mpg @ 20mph or 12.5mpg @ 80mph. It will be a curve.
So too with a battery, the quoted say 110AH at the 20hr rate is just the same idea as 25mpg @ 40mph for example. It means something but it certainly doesn't mean everything. It means that at a discharge current of 110/20 amps (5.5A) the battery will indeed discharge fully in 20 hours. But it doesn't mean that at 100A it will discharge in 110/100 = 1 hour and 6 minutes. This would be the answer if battery discharge curves were actually straight lines. But, because they're not, we have to employ slightly more complicated maths to work out the answer. For small deviations from the 5.5A above (110/20), the difference in discharge time is insignificant. But for larger currents, it becomes very significant.
So, for a 100A discharge the real number is (110/20)1.3 x 20 / 1001.3 = 0.46 hours or 28 minutes
This is only 42% of the time predicted by the simple 110/100 calculation above - a huge difference. The "1.3" figure in the calculation is known as the "Peukert factor" and will vary slightly from 1.3 depending on the exact composition of the battery but 1.3 is a good figure to use to represent a wet lead-acid battery. Plotting results using the Peukert factor would reproduce the true discharge curve for the battery rather than the straight line implied by the 20 hour rate figure.
Using the true maths shows that a 100AH battery is NOT 33% larger in capacity than a 75AH battery of the same hour-rate (ie: 100/75) but actually:
(100/75)1.3 = 45.4% larger in capacity. Ergo, that's an additional 9% gain in capacity (1.454/1.33) by using the larger battery that didn't come from the simple 100/75 calculation.
That's why it's much better to keep your domestic bank as one large bank rather than splitting it into a couple of smaller banks to run different systems on the boat as some people do. You end up with much more capacity "for free" if you connect them all together.
Also beware of specsmanship: a 110AH battery at the 20hr rate could instead be legally quoted at the 40hr rate and the capacity would be 130AH at this rate. You can bet the 130AH figure would be in large bold lettering whilst the 40 hr rate would be in small print!!!
Chris
Hi Chris,
Re: "So, for a 100A discharge the real number is (110/20)1.3 x 20 / 1001.3 = 0.46 hours or 28 minutes"
For some reason I can't get your calculation to work for me in a spread sheet?? Probably my cack-handed effort with formulas! Do you know of a spreadsheet anywhere that I could download that includes this calculation?
Cheers,
Colin
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Trawling through various battery data sheets recently, it dawned on me that most of the British battery manufacturers that were so well known and trusted, have now disappeared. Are there any firms in the UK still making batteries or are they all imported?
Mine came from the US - and they are manufactured there. Doubt anything so "industrial" is made here anymore
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Excellent!!!
Even if BW did introduce such a thing, I imagine it wouldn't take long to have them ditch it. Just post your card to other cc's and send it round the system
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A most impressive set-up you've got there, as long as it all keeps working you'll be fine.
Years ago, an old friend of mine was living on a barge on which he had to change 1 lightbulb after 5 years, nothing else ever went wrong. the reason for nothing else to go wrong was that there wasn't anything else that could go wrong.
He had a wind-charger to keep his battery charged, this 1 lightbulb, a foot waterpump and a wood-burning stove. He would have had plenty of money to make it better and more luxurious if he'd wanted , he was one of the happiest people I've ever met.
Cheers, Peter.
Thanks Peter........sounds like your friend had an almost perfect solution!!
Know what you mean about stuff going wrong - which it will at some point no doubt! I've worked on the basis that hopefully the individual monitoring will help easily identify a point of failure and single items/components can be swapped out, hence no inverter/charger combo. Time will tell!!!
Regards,
Colin
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:DAs with all the “electrical” threads on here, very interesting! Thought I’d throw my setup into the ring, don my tin hat and await comments from those who obviously have much greater knowledge!
4 x 6v Deep-cycle traction batteries, 12v 566Ah (@20hr Rate). Low-Water warning indicator and auto watering system. Fan-assisted battery-box ventilation with fan over-run (keeps the fan on for a few minutes after the charging cycle has ended)
Standard Barrus 65hp issue alternators, 50A start and 160A Leisure
Sterling 210A Alternator to Battery controller/charger
Sterling 240v 50A Battery Charger
Sterling PSW 3000W Inverter
Dual shore-power connection points (IP65 rated) with manual cross-over selector switch for port or starboard connection (it’s a wide boat).
Sterling ProSwitch for auto shore-power/genny/inverter selection and contactor (switches off the 240v charger when inverter is on).
All this lot (with the exception of the cross-over switch) have remote controls and monitoring.
I’ll soon be adding a wind-genny to trickle a bit and next year maybe some solar panels to trickle a bit more……
Main kit includes the usual water pump, shower pump, 12v toilet, 240v fridge, small dishwasher, washing machine, 37” LCD TV, central heating pump, laptop, all LED lighting.
Best investments to date were the Sterling DC link box that makes hooking it all up so easy, safe and neat. The clever fan over-run unit that I had manufactured to evacuate the gasses from the battery box and the battery auto-watering system!
Colin
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Given that the BW towpath detectives seem to find all and sundry in a very short space of time, I would have thought asking the local BW offices to get their parking attendants to keep an eye out for it might help produce a result?
Colin
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I think you're missing the point that batteries on boats generally get abused. They often don't get fully recharged, they get over-discharged and left in a discharged state for long periods. They don't get regularly equalised and they often don't get topped up leaving the plates exposed to air.
All this wrecks expensive batteries just as well as it wrecks cheap ones.
Given the proper treatment expensive batteries will outlast cheap ones by more than the price differential and on that basis it makes sense to use expensive, proper, deep cycle batteries.
But if the batteries are going to be abused it simply doesn't make sense because they will get broken just as easily.
I personally have better things to do with my time than look after batteries and worry about them. On that basis I use cheap cr*p and replace them when they expire. It works for me and makes more financial sense than wrecking expensive batteries in the same time because I abuse them.
Gibbo
Fair enough! However, I'm all for an easy life and that's why I've gone for the monitoring and automated watering system. Yep, still have to keep an eye out for the low water warning light but then all that's required is a quick flick of the pump and they're topped up to precisely the correct level without getting my hands dirty! My batteries are under the wheelhouse floor and the last thing I want to do is lift the hatch and mess about opening up the box etc. I don't think £590 for a 566Ah bank of 'proper' deep-cycle batteries is expensive but maybe I'm missing something?
Colin
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Interesting…..It seems to me that there are myriad opinions when it comes to batteries and even more when it comes to charging them! In my (very humble) opinion, it really does depend on individual circumstances and application ie. A live-aboard will have a different requirement to a ‘leisure’ user; the equipment being used; the type of charging (engine, genset, wind, solar etc. etc.). So, what may be ideal for one individual may be wildly different to another.
Batteries are a consumable – maybe a long-term one but a consumable never the less and as with any consumable, the cost/lifecycle is the calculation to start with. When I started looking into the whole power issue for my new barge, I had the benefit of being able to design-in a suitable space to take almost any size/quantity of batteries. This isn’t the case for many especially on a narrowboat where space and access is a major limiting factor. So compromise creeps in sometimes although I do believe where there’s a will there’s a way!
My barge will be a live-aboard so this meant daily use for most of the year. Leisure type batteries would be a waste of time/money unless I wanted to change them regularly – which I don’t. So I talked to businesses using heavy plant such as access equipment, fork-trucks, road sweepers etc. These things are used daily and charged either every night or every 2 days or so. Without exception, the only things that will take this sort of ‘work’ are deep-cycle, lead-acid battery ‘packs’ usually made up from 2volt or 6volt cells. Yes, they require looking after (watering) and you need to vent them properly to get rid of the gas.
I seriously considered 2volt cells to give me a 12volt 500Ah (@20hrs) ‘pack’ but the cost was around £680 and the cells were about 500m high! Cutting a long story short, I’ve opted for 4 x 6volt deep-cycle 283Ah batteries to give me 566Ah (12volts). I know that these batteries are used by some organisations in the US for heavy plant and have personal experience of them through work. The specs are very good and so is the curve – out-performing similar Trojan batteries.
The ventilation is not a problem. I’ve commissioned the production of a simple fan controller that runs when the batteries are under charge and then runs on for a period after to evacuate the battery box – which is vented to outside. Watering is also a doddle. There is a warning light to show when the water level is below optimum and an automatic watering system to top them up. This also has the added benefit of flame arrester for each cell so some added safety. This setup occupies a space 600mm long x 370mm deep x 300mm high and weighs in at 141kgs. All fine and dandy for me but would it fit in a narrowboat?
The cost is under £600 for the lot so if they last me 5 years, that’s £119.50/year. A cost that is fine by me and cheaper than shoving in leisure batteries that I might have to replace every year. I really can’t see the point of using something that hasn’t been designed for the job (truck starter batteries etc) even if they are “cheap”!
Colin
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Thanks to all of you who responded!
I've got to the bottom of it and must say that the people I've been dealing with at BW in Northwich have been superb - very helpful and have eased my worry! I now have a shiney new index number!!
Colin
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hi does anyone know of any resisdential moorings in ellesemere port or chester area getting a bit worried i wont find any now
Hi Paul,
Having hunted high and low over the last few months on this part of the Shroppie (Dee Branch or old Chester canal), I'm afraid you're going to struggle. I know that none of the on-line moorings between Chester and Chas Harden's place at Tiverton have vacancies. The only thing I am aware of at the moment is one for a boat of around 50-55ft to the south west of Chester that's coming up in a few weeks. PM me if you want the details of that.
Other than that, there's the new marina at Tattenhall. I understand that they will be able to take some boats in at Easter but it's pricey and they didn't like residential when I talked to them! I didn't look north of the city or as far up as Ellesmere Port so you may have some luck hunting up there.
Regards,
Colin
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Hi,
I sent in (and they received) my BW License application 5 weeks ago. It's a new boat and first time application. All the docs were correct and having telephoned them twice, I was told that it "takes a week to put it on the system", then " a couple of weeks to process it", then "we have to check out your mooring". They have given me the license number verbally but I've still not had anything back from them in writing and/or the bit of paper.
Is this the norm for BW? Should I be getting on the telephone and complaining yet?
Thanks,
Colin
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I read on UK rec waterways that it is impossible to post an email thru the Orange server with the word "canal" in the subject line, I tried it.... bounced back - "content rejected". harrumph
the link to complain is...
http://www.orange.co.uk/knowledgebase/webf...tus/formWBO.cfm
This (amongst many other) is a well known problem with Orange. Most of the servers they use for outgoing email have been blocked to some extent by many other service providers because of spamming - a lot of the Indian and Ghanaian spammers 'bounce' their rubbish through Orange/Wanadoo/Freeserve servers. In fact one of the main service providers in the US has blacklisted almost all Orange servers! Orange have done a bit of a knee-jerk to try and cut down the spam but it's all a bit pear-shaped.
When I used Orange as a service provider I had a lot of problems with (legitimate) emails I was sending to customers, being bounced back or 'failed to send'. The main issue is that Orange don't let you use alternative smtp server addresses (the 'outgoing' mail servers). They won't even admit there is a problem but it is a massive issue! Check out the following link if you want a laugh!
http://www.orangeproblems.co.uk
However, there is a solution to most outgoing mail problems with Orange and some other service providers. It's called "authsmtp". This service is very cheap and authenticates you the sender and prevents your emails being 'blocked'. I've been using their service for about 5 years now and never had a problem - no matter which service provider I've been with.
If you do have problems with emails being blocked - via Orange or anyone else it may be worth you checking out the service from authsmtp: http://www.authsmtp.com
Colin
BTW, I don't have any relationship with authsmtp other than being a customer!
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Can anyone point me in the right direction for Brass banjo unions for a 1956-ish Bowman oil cooler ½" into cooler by ¾" onto pipework. I could use MI X C elbows and brass bushes but it might look a bit out of place.
Mike
Hi,
You could try these: http://www.goodridge.net/uk/index.htm
We use them for motorsport stuff but they seem to be able to get anything!
Colin
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Hi,
I would be interested to hear from anyone who owns one, as to their comments about how they have found things ongoing. It looks a good size living space well planned, with room for additions and a stove installing too.
If there is anything too negative (allegedlly) you can pm me.
I would also be interested to hear peoples general thoughts on this craft or if you have heard positives and negatives they too would be well recieved.
Thank you
Hi,
We looked at them - these are my views from my notes during my research:
Positives: nicely fitted out with some good ideas; Quality internal trim and fittings. Hi spec domestic appliances, TV etc. Nice windows, Nice Paint.
Negatives: Expensive; For living on board - the heating system is useless (search on Webasto etc on this site); Electricals Ok but you'd need shore-power; Small tank for fresh water (500lts); Very small black water tank (180lts) = lots of pump-outs! Engine power to small for the hull. Roof only 4mm steel.
My opinions only...!
There's an interesting thread on the forum about the structure/build of this type of shell and also engine power.
http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=20518
We went for a Barrus 65hp as a good compromise between power/economy/price. It also came with decent alternators - a 50Amp for starter and 160Amp for the domestic side. I believe the Isuzu comes with an 80 and 110Amp. We also went for lead-acid deep-cycle 6volt batteries to give 566Ah total capacity (1200cycles @ 50%DOD) with an automatic watering system. I believe that this is a much better solution for a live-aboard and cost me less than a load of 'leisure' batteries.
Our hull has a long swim and handles very well (without a bow-thruster) and we have hydraulic steering. We have a 760ltr fresh water tank and 800ltr black water tank.
The roof and structure were very important because we wanted it to be strong enough to party on - so 5mm with closely spaced box-steel bearers - better than 4mm.
We took some ideas from the Metrofloat for our interior. However, try not to get too carried away with what you see on the surface but look at the detail underneath - especially the steelwork, structure, welding etc. Any good builder would be able to create the space and style that you want but not many produce the quality of shell that surrounds it and keeps it all dry!!
Our plan is to finish off our barge and live on her until next spring. Then to take her to France (by truck - I'm not brave!). She will be our home for good so she has to be a fully functioning live-aboard.
In my opinion, you could do a lot better without spending that sort of budget!
Colin
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Colin, this is all really helpful, and exactly what I needed to know. This is the beginning of my research and it feels like its coming on in leaps and bounds thanks to this forum... so big thanks to everyone who has responded so far.
Cal
P.S
could you PM me the 5 companies you found to be quite serious contenders, and if I may ask how much did you pay for your sailaway, of course you don't have to answer.
thanks again
Have PM'd you as requested!
Colin
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15mm along with 8mm hull sides is a simple solution to increasing overall strength and rigidity along with this the floor bearers roof bars are also increased in proportion while the panel sizes reduce.
10mm built along the lines of a narrowboat is OK up to about 8' but more than that and other things need to change to compensate for this obviously the more you push out the beam the more complications you will encounter.
This approach is very much related to inland waterways boat building where the technology and practises often rub shoulders with the building of fuel storage tanks or even skips and have very little in common with traditional boat or ship building.
A good example is to look at a real Dutch barge the hull might have only being 5mm or so when newly built, but strip away that "skin" and you would be left with a fairly significant skeleton that forms the boats structure.
A narrowboat is entirely the opposite the skin is the strength remove that and you might only have something resembling a bed frame or even less. On a narrowboat by its nature that is long and thin this actually works very well but mess with the ratio of beam to length and it gets messy.
One fairly well known builder built quite a few broad boats on 10mm base plates without even paying lip service to scantlings etc the few floor bearers actually fitted were just that not even being attached to the hull sides, this would be very bad practise even on a narrowboat but some of these were 12' beam!
In my (very) humble opinion - and I'm not a marine engineer, Gary is abaolutely correct. I've seen widebeam shells that look like they'd been made from Meccano! If we'd have had the budget then I'd have gone with a single-chine design similar to boats produced by Ledgard Bridge. Our builder offered a similar design and a full 'dutch barge' style solution but the additional cost was prohibitive for us. By the way, I made an error with our specs - we have a 12mm baseplate not 10mm!
The solution for us was a flat-bottom shell properly designed for the job. There was a lot of attention paid to the internal structure with quite closely spaced and substantial scantlings. The hull sides were folded at the gunwhale and mostly one-piece steel, extending almost the full length of the hull. The deckhead (roof) bearers are rolled box steel and also closely spaced. I wanted something with just a shallow curve to it so we can party up there when the weathers good! I have a book of calculations and full RCD compliance list supplied and signed by the builder together with the cad drawings etc.
I'd recommend anyone thinking about buying to concentrate on the detail - the welding, testing, hydostatics, steel quality etc. For example, look very closely at the rubbing strakes - are they fully welded top and bottom? how substantial is the skeg/rudder mounting? What is the spacing of the scantlings? Check out the thickness of the steel used for the scantlings, roof supports, engine beds and bulkheads etc.
It's easy to get carried away with a nice looking, painted and fitted boat but get into the grubby bits and look at a shell in production first. I think you'll find that there are probably less than 5 or 6 boat builders who could produce a well designed and excecuted widebeam at a sensible price - at least that's what I found after 5 years of looking!
Colin
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Hello all, I'm new to this forum and I don't yet have a boat but I'm doing my research now and hope to enter into the world of liveaboard as soon as I feel I've soaked up enough facts that I can make a wise enough decision as to what suits me best. My first questions of course revolve around what hull/sailaway type I should go for, and for the purpose of this area of the forum what the best or most reasonable manufacturer should be? Firstly I have a fairly good idea what type I want to buy, the Blackrose 12ft by 57ft http://www.barging.co.uk/BlackRose.htm narrowboat style widebeam is looking to me to seem the perfect choice for me atm. Firstly I am fine about being consigned to the widebeam canals of the south of UK having used the www.barging.co.uk map as guide. Secondly as a liveaboard I do feel the width benefits would be a necessity for me. I work as a freelance TV Editor and I would like the option of being able to moor up in London to do some work during the winter months then CC through the summer months, any thoughts on this also welcome. I am 28 and feel that I've got enough energy in me to have a good go at fitting out a sailaway hull up to the standards and style that I have in mind. I have to say that making it my home and putting a lot of 'me' into it is a very important part of this project, and I am fully aware of how very hard this will be, but I've always enjoyed challenges. Anyway, my thoughts at the moment would be to buy a Liverpool Boats Co. sailaway lined 12ft by 60ft from them and mooring non residential poss kingston area whilst I fit her up inside over a year or so, to get her to the point I can continue fitting her up but can live in her too. all thoughts on my endeavors most appreciated and very welcome.
Cal
P.S
This forum has been a great read, so thanks for everyone for making such a useful and interesting forum.
Hi Cal,
After 5 years of looking and research (yep 5 years!), we hooked up with a fantastic builder who has built our dream at a cost that was less than a decent 2nd-hand one without compromising on quality etc. Our budget was very low so I decided to do some of the finishing work myself - which helped keep the costs under control. I'm reasonably handy but have little time (or inclination) to get too involved so all the major stuff has been done - wiring, most of the fit-out etc etc.
She's a 57ft x 11ft barge with a good spec (10, 6, 5, 5 steelwork, Barrus 65Hp engine). There are some pictures on Flickr at: http://www.flickr.com/photos/synibex
The builders are marine engineers based in the north west who build off-shore stuff as well as river/canal barges and narrowboats. The whole process was superb and we were involved from the very start with the designer who worked with us to give us exactly what we wanted - and the price was better than our other short-listed builders!
There's an awful lot of things to think about but I'd advise you to concentrate on the shell firstly ie. the detail of it. I'm from a motorsport background so had/have pretty high standards when it comes to welding and testing. I couldn't believe what absolute garbage some builders think is acceptable. For example "we'd send a chap down at the launch with some welding gear in case there are any leaks"......"we've never had more than one or two leaks on a new boat".....!!! These comments were form some well known and "respectable" builders (not Ledgard Bridge I hasten to add - excellent company, superb product but way out of our price bracket - sorry :-))
The company that we went with are rock-solid financially (I checked thoroughly) and have a great team of people. Their designer spent a lot of time with us refining our ideas and came up with some great things to help us get what we wanted and stay within our very limited budget. I'm not sure if I can say who they are on an open forum (advertising rules?) but if you PM me, I'd be happy to pass on their details. Our barge is based near Chester so it may be well out of your way but you'd be welcome to have a look at her anytime.
Good look with your search!
Colin
Barrus Shire 65hp - Fuel System - Help!!
in Boat Building & Maintenance
Posted
Hi Tony,
The boat and the engine are new. It does have a stop solenoid so I will check this out......
Thank you very much for your comments and suggestions.
Colin
Not really, it can idle for a bit then cut out and when I thought I'd cured it, went for about 15mins under load before cutting out.......
The pump seems to run OK although I guess it could have been damaged by the plastic swarf that I found on the inlet side when I first cleaned it out?
Thanks,
Colin