GeoffS
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Posts posted by GeoffS
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Two boats have got through this morning (including me). Engineers on way. It could well get closed due to H&S depending on the soundness of the bridge above.
It happened at 2am, a large van no one else involved. Its the 3rd accident in a year, one fatal, one serious. It is a straight road but the bridge itself is at an angle which is dangerous when travelling fast. It is due to be shut soon to upgrade the lights.
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I have just heard that a vehicle has hit the bridge this morning and the southern side brick work has collapsed with, presumably, a lot of it in the canal. I will go and take a look soon and update but it could well mean that the route is blocked.
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I have just bought a pair of these and have been very impressed so far.
http://www.u-power.it/cms/product.php?prod=SG10164&lang=en
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Apologies for the data not being accurate enough. I was rounding the Voltages but realise now that 2 DP is needed and makes a big difference. However thanks to all your suggestions I think the conclusion must be that the batteries are depleted and therefore, in my opinion, were not fit for the intended purpose when bought 5 months ago. Whether the capacity now is 200 or even 300AH (and I appreciate I need better data to deduce this) is for me a little bit academic and I need to start a discussion with the supplier. How likely any success is I am doubtful and I may have to put this down as a very expensive learning lesson. Thanks again.
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Yes. Thank you all for the comments and help. Wish me luck!!
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21 minutes ago, WotEver said:
There truly are only two possibilities. Either the batteries are somehow faulty or you’ve been under-charging them. The latter is far more likely as a ‘faulty’ battery usually has far more dramatic results than a simple loss of capacity. Four faulty batteries even less likely.
You don’t have one of the four getting hot and/or bulging do you?
No heat or bulging. But also given my regime very unlikely to have been undercharged. Especially as I managed 8 years from the last set.
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From history checking the time the charger is in Absorption and Float mode and looking at the charging current I am fairly certain they were fully charged. Many times I have seen tail current at 3-4A and the charger still be in Absorption. This is the first time recently it has been in float purely because I left it on overnight.
1 minute ago, Richard10002 said:You should charge them up as much as possible, ideally to 100%, every day. Looks to me like your batteries have a capacity of a bit over 200Ah, (maybe 215-220Ah).
Yes and I do. But 4 new batteries 5 months ago at 115AH each should presumably not be at only 200AH total now. That is what I am trying to investigate.
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6 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:
What a shockingly poor installation.
At first sight it appears neat and tidy but no thought whatever appears to have been given to when the time comes to replacing the batteries. How can they be lifted out without pulling ALL that wiring to bits?
I have personally disconnected and removed the batteries to re build the box and they have been removed and replaced for other works so no issues, not easy maybe but do able.. My issue is whether the batteries are performing and if not whether I need to go back to the supplier and seek recompense
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I also noticed today that the batteries have a small sticker on them saying 'Intended purpose: For use with electrical hook up with minimal off grid habitation usage'. Which is not what I would say is suitable for any travelling boater!
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Update.
As far as I can see all negatives are going through the shunt and nothing else is connected apart from the Smartgauge.
At 11.30 am Saturday arrived at boat having left charger on. Gone to Float all saying 100%. Disconnected Solar. Inverter and Webasto on. 12V fridge running
15.30 12.7V SG 97% Victron - 15AH
17.30 126V 93% -21AH
Laptop TV/DVD and phone on.
21.30 12.4V 70% -47AH
Sunday
8.00 12.3V 63% -69AH
10.30 12.2V 60% -77AH
15.30 12.2V 57% -92AH
17.30 12.2V 56% -97AH
Decision needed now, do I leave them to discharge further and see what happens or do I turn on the charger (I have hook up available).
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Thanks for all the input.
I haven't been at the boat apart from for few minutes earlier today. After more than 24 hours of discharge the SG was showing 79% and the Victron that 26AH had been used. The only item that was running was a 12V fridge minus whatever the 2 x 50W solar panels had put back in.
However I will look into it further, particular the shunt wiring, and follow your suggestions over the weekend and report back afterwards. The charger is on now and will be until tomorrow so I will have a clean start in the morning.
Thanks again.
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3 hours ago, WotEver said:
As you’ve had 8 years from your last set of Batteries (if I read the OP correctly) then you’re not doing much wrong
As you’re going down to around 3A tail current from the alternator then, assuming it’s putting out over 14.1V, you’re fully charging the batts. Don’t worry about equalising at this stage.
Go down to around 60% SoC on the SmartGauge and see if the Ah used agrees more closely.
Yes 8+ years and I have always been diligent in making sure I never deeply discharged them. They started to struggle at the beginning of this year but I dithered about what to replace with (I wanted to go Trojan or another set of AGM but I couldnt find the correct physical size and didnt want to do a lot of reworking of the positioning which would not have been easy). In a bit of a hurry I went for Exide ER 550 which were certainly not 'cheap' at Around £150 each.
I have been down to the mid 60's Smartgauge SOC and it is close to 20% lower than the Victron shows when set to 460AH. If I set to 200AH then it starts to get much closer.
I think a discussion with the supplier/installer may be the next thing to do.
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21 minutes ago, cuthound said:
First point, is the charger still in absorbtion charge mode (circa 14.4 volts) when you are reading 3-4 amps?
Also having set the battery type and capacity, you need to periodically "synchronise" the BMV when the battery really is fully charged, by presting the + & - keys simultaneously for 3 seconds or longer. (It is supposed to automatically synchronise whenever the battery is charged to 100%, but as the capacity falls due to sulphation it does this less and less giving an incorrect reading).
With regard to your second point, it depends on the kind of sealed battery. Better quality AGM's can be equalised, as can the cheapo sealed batteries which contain a wet electrolyte. With this type there is usually a sealed strip hiding the caps to the individual cells.
The majority of the time I am charging via the engine alternators. I use a charger periodically, via a generator, and sometimes it could still be in Absorption mode.
Equalisation via an alternator is presumably not possible? I need to check the charger manual on if and how to make it do an equalisation charge.
Thanks for all the input
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Not tested specific gravity, and they are sealed batteries. For Victron purposes I set the Tail current to be 1.5%. I have used a combination of the Smartgauge and the Tail current has fallen to 3-4A.
8 minutes ago, WotEver said:Note that a couple of equalisation charges may well recover a substantial amount of sulphation.
Can this be done with Sealed Batteries?
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26 minutes ago, mross said:
What Ah capacity did you program into the Victron BM?
I don't have a Smargauge, but I think it needs to be 'reset' and will take time to learn the new batteries' characteristics. Have you set both meters for SLAs?
I put 460AH in the Victron. As far as I know the Smartgauge should reset itself after a few discharges and I have had these now for 3/4 months. Both meters are set for SLA's.
12 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:The simplest way is to take a voltage reading before it gets light in the morning (no solar power) and preferrably no load on the batteries for an hour. Consult voltage vs SOC tables and that will give you an approximate (but good enough) SOC. I look at my voltage each morning before solar kicks in - much easier now it is darker - but there is usually -1.7A out from the inverter/240v fridge. I am now reasonably confident to estimate the 'no load' voltage from the '-1.7A drain' voltage. Then compare the AHr used vs the voltage derived SOC. I write it down each day and 4 months after putting in new lead acids, the numbers havent degraded significantly - if at all.
I assume you are getting the same voltage on both meters?
The same voltage appears on both meters and looking at a SOC chart suggests the Smartgauge is correct.
Which is worrying in that it suggests the actual capacity is far far less than 460AH. As the batteries are less than 5 months old I am concerned and also need to decide if I go back to the supplier.
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For 8+years I have used a Smartgauge to look after a set of AGM batteries. They failed during this summer and I replaced them with 4 x 115 ah Sealed Lead Acid batteries. Soon after I also installed a Victron Battery Monitor in addition to the Smartgauge as I wanted to see the battery actual usage while I was on an extensive cruise.
I am well aware of the short comings of Amp Hour counters and so always intended to use the Smartgauge as the SOC monitor. However I assume the Amp Hours consumed that is recorded (while there is no charging being done) should be accurate on the Victron.
So I am a bit puzzled. If I take to Smartgauge to 100% SOC and discharge a portion of the batteries overnight the Smartgauge reads a far lower SOC than the consumed AH suggests. It is not just a small deviation but can be 15-20% suggesting that the actual capacity of these new batteries is far lower than their original quoted capacity.
If I discharge 60 AH I see a Victron SOC of 87% (straight maths) yet the Smartgauge will show around 70%.
Could this mean that my 4 x 115 AH batteries only actually have around 200 AH capacity? If so is there a way to check this as after just a few months I hope that this is not the case? Or can it be that even though it records 60 AH that more is actually consumed?
Thanks in advance for any information.
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Walking back to my mooring last night and caught a new sign out of the corner of my eye
it would appear that a section of moorings have been removed, about 100 - 120 foot, and only fisherman are allowed there now
Are there any other areas with such signage, they do look official as new posts have been concreated in and logos etc
This is in Marsworth opposite the facitlies block
Fisherman have always been limited to the area between the elson bridge and the aylesbury arm, and had to be shared with the boats. This area is now fisherman only
This is also the area that only recently CRT said that there were issues with mooring spaces and proposed reducing to 48 hours but now there is so much room that they can reduce the available mooring space
We on the moorings were not told of this change, and in all fairness makes no change to our cirumstances expect that as the chains that were removed have still not been put back and some boaters were waiting on that side as there is a bollard to tie to
Steve
I was visiting some friends who were moored there last weekend and the signs have gone (but the posts are still there!)
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Is the Pump Out machine operational now though?
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But Slapton isn't between Horton and Ivinghoe. Reason I comment is that it was closed Horton to Seabrook (and no longer appears on the search function presumably as its past now) which finished on Feb 26th (not sure when they actually finished) but Slapton never appeared in any of the original notices or lists. But I heard a comment made at the weekend though that there is a stoppage or restriction around Slapton that is preventing Jules Fuels travelling north. Not been there myself to check though.
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But you cannot reach Marsworth until the stoppage from Horton to Seabrook finishes.
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Thanks for the link. That is the document that came with the unit. As you say it mentions "7 days in advance" so maybe its deliberately not able to be set for continuous use. The only reason I can think of is that as they are designed primarily for car/truck use there was never a thought that they would be needing to have the same settings week after week. When I get a chance I will call Webasto to confirm and then the only option is to change it to another make. Thanks for the replies and help.
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A friends new boat has a Webasto Timer that looks like the one below. It can be set for 3 sessions per day but at the end of each week each one has to be separately reactivated. The setting is still there but it doesn't get used again until it is manually activated.
Hopefully there is a simple solution but I cant find it! Does anyone know if and how it can be set to be used permanently? I cant believe it is designed not to be able to do that!
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Is it a lock in the distance? If so it cant be Cooks Wharf. If it is there is an awful lot of water that needs to be found and as said above, an awful lot of boats that will be grounded including the boat and units at Pitstone Wharf. More likely the Ivinghoe 2 that regularly gets drained and often due to the poor state of the paddles, one of them sticks so if you don't know about it it can easily be left partly shut.
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You can set the timings in Canalplan to suit your own normal speeds. I don't bother with that anymore though but use Canalplan to tell me how many Locks and Miles its going to be and then I add these together and divide by 3 which is my long term average speed. Sometimes its a bit slower sometimes quicker but over a long period it has been accurate.
GU South Bridge 123 Brownlow Bridge
in General Boating
Posted
The van was still there with an occupant asleep at Noon so I hope it was identified, the police had been there earlier. It would be nice to think their insurance would pay.
Update.
Boats are travelling through including this widebeam this morning.
And Corona came through this evening.