Mike Jordan
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Posts posted by Mike Jordan
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14 hours ago, TheBiscuits said:
"Work fascinates me - I can sit and watch someone do it all day!"
JKJ ?
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That's the crude end of boat fitting! They normally have a bit of shape as shown in these templates.
Mikel
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Decent hardwood Windows won't provide you with any real savings in the short term but will certainly need regular maintenance to keep them looking acceptable. I think the best method of proceeding is to remember that all boats are eventually for sale. Bearing that in mind anything hat makes the boat out of the ordinary will seriously detract from the value.
To my eye the only place where wooden windows are a visual success are Dutch barges. There is a thread on here entitled "leaking Skylights" have a look at that before ordering up the roof lights/ dog boxes, there are a some very poor but expensive designs out there.
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The timber shown looks like sapele to me, that's listed as vulnerable rather than endangered, much more knowledge is needed before finding fault. I once ran into abuse for using teak, the person making the noise had no idea where the material was traditionally grown and carefully harvested but was certain I was committing some sort of crime. Palm oil plantations are giving fast profits where forests of timber formerly stood, I'm not very knowledgable about the extent of the problem but it's easy to see that palm oil beats growing timber and it's easy to read the list of users and their products.Cadburys and other big names are featured.
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I would agree that the little metal "pigeon box" type vents have little or no appeal in terms of appearance and are just functional ventilators, often causing condensation problems, only suitable for use over engine rooms.Houdini hatches are, in my opinion, a condensation disaster, just ask a live aboard boater who owns one.
In wide beam boats or Dutch barges a properly designed and built deck light gives a very pleasant level of light and controllable ventilation.
Narrow boats featuring portholes only are not very nice living spaces to my mind but they can be greatly improved by the fitting of dog boxes, the drawback being that you need a number to get the right effect
As to the quoted price of £3500 don't forget that this was on the Thames where boatyards tend to be expensive ( or greedy) places, and where just tying up for the night and sinking a few pints in a local hostelry can seriously dent the finances. The boatyards in the midlands are not cheap but normally much more competitive. Above other considerations all contributors to this thread seem to agree that a hole in the roof that leaks or causes condensation is a menace.
Mike.
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The link won't work for me, it shows an order for clip hinges? You are right though my last box (Dec2019) had satin chrome extending jacks to match the ss bars and hinges. I was confident that I had seen stainless jacks but was unable to find any.
I have purchased in the past from Black Country Ironworks ( it's not in the Black Country nor is it an ironworks) the items I wanted from them were out of stock but I was satisfied with the quality of the substitute items from Ironmongery Direct.
If anyone spots any in stainless I would be pleased to hear about them for future builds. I think the most important feature is the quick release mechanism Im also keen to have a trial run with the simplified dovetailing system.
Mike.
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Anyone seeking dog box fittings? I put an add in the for sale section yesterday to dispose of some brass stays which are very difficult to obtain at chandlers these days. I won't be making any more dog boxes so have no use for them. My deck lights/skylights are better served by screw jacks.
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The original cost was less than the current bid! I'm always amused by the myths surrounding Springer boats. At about the time this one was built I visited his yard and met Sam, a rough diamond with a line in rougher language. He told me that he had specialised in making petrol storage tanks for the filling station boom in the 60s and had made his first boat shell for his own use, from that point he was asked to build more for other people and went into mass production. They were being made in conditions that can't have been legal from a H&S point of view even then. The (rusty) 3/16"steel plate was being dropped off a lorry at the factory gate and sliced up by a man with a gas axe and a few templates. The parts were then moved into the shop to be rolled, folded etc before being welded up by operatives working with multi position stick welder S. The welds were not chipped but simply spray painted over. I'm certain that the machinery in use would not have any chance of handling gas holder plate either folding ,rolling, or any other operations. Down the years I have seen two shells built very roughly out of gas holder plate. One was built in a farm yard and I think a tractor may have been used as suggested. Both were easily identifiable as having been made from very thick ( and not very flat) plate, but I'm sure they are still out there.I shudder to think of the long term results of underground petrol tanks made to the standard of a springer shell. His expertise in building tanks was supported by one he built that I think crossed the Atlantic? powered by a 1.5 BMC diesel.
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This must be someone with,scant knowledge of narrow boats. I can't even imagine any serious attempt to shot blast inside after removing the flooring. Just a transparent try on.
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You're right it is, a quick Google shows it having both names.
Mike.
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That's the name used for the type used on a drawer front so that the ends of the tails are covered and not visible from the front.
The advantage is that it avoids the problems caused by dovetailing a rebated timber section. I've seen similar joints used for the same type of job but I have no idea of its proper name. I'm sure I've seen some with an angled shoulder which I think is for water checking the joint, again I can't remember where!
Mike.
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Lm
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I was about to post an easier method of dovetailing the corners of the deck lights but I was interrupted and failed to complete the post. I couldn't remember exactly how it went so I made a model with two bits of scrap timber.
The missing bit of the top edge is where I tested a cutter shape. In the event of me making another deck light I intend to try this out. It's simple enough and easy to do, but hard to get my head round without the model to hand.
Mike.
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Even if it had a survey yesterday, if you didn't engage the surveyor and pay for it yourself it means nothing. Only an idiot trusts a sellers survey. When new it would have been a good quality boat if fitted by H&l and cost about £10,000.
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As you say in a few instances the gutter may be nearly level, but the boat is constantly moving, the gutter is nice and wide with open ends which promotes air movement to dry it. It only takes a few millimetres to make the gutter drain so I don't think the timber is any more at risk than any other external joinery. My favoured hardwood for the job is Iroko, its second only to teak for durability and has a life expectancy of about thirty years in this type of use. The flush glazing means that there are no beads to suffer from water ingress. I am always surprised to see doors and cratch boards with external beading without even the 9 degree weather slope expected in soundly made joinery.
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The sealant used on the units I have used in the past fifteen years have been the hot melt type. No failures have been reported to date. I don't consider Perspex to be a suitable material for use in double glazing in any circumstances.
I have seen a lot of different ways of making dog boxes and deck lights, some rely on plastic and rubber seals and even plastic piipes to drain the water. The design I have published in the photo gallery is, I believe, the most suitable, it relies on quality joinery. That means dovetails at at the corners of the box together with mortise and tenon joints on the frames and drips and drainage channels to remove the water.
The box has an internal rebate at the base so that it can sit on top of the metal coaming with a 10mm gap between the box and boat roof avoid trapping water in the joint
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I'm not sure I undersand that, is the claim that the spacers or adhesive will be affected by sunlight? I've certainly not heard of any problems, and bearing in mind that even in a rebate they are subjected to uv regularly I don't expect problems. Some of the deck lights have now been in use for more than ten years without anyone making comment.
Mike.
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I think it's fair comment to say that most dog boxes and deck lights are poorly made and tend to leak (those from Wotever and myself being exceptions of course) the easiest way to spot a duff one is to look for a diamond shaped rail fastened to the top of the ridge, this is usually a desperate (and futile) attempt to keep rain off the hinged joint and stop it leaking. A look at my gallery will show fitting and water proofing systems that work well! It's not rocket science, just old fashioned standard joinery methods.
As to Houdini hatches, they are great for letting the heat out of the galley area but the condensation in winter months is serious enough to prevent any experienced boater from having one on a second boat.
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The design shown in the photos is taken from my book "Narrow Boat & Dutch Barge Joinery Designs" and very unlikely to leak if properly made with flush glazing.
available on Amazon.
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You are right in saying that you can fit seals to the exhaust valve stems as well as the inlet valves, but if they are not up to spec as mine weren't they can be welded to the valve stem by the heat and then go up and down with the valve and make a very effective set of four little pumps each of which pumps oil droplets down the valve guides into the exhaust.
In my instance all the joints in the exhaust system dripped oil into the engine room, soaked the exhaust lagging and made an obvious mess.
Most fishing boats have a wet exhaust and the engine will be working much harder than in a canal boat so that may be the answer.
The problem has been on here before but I can't find the posts.
Its easy enough to take off the rocker cover and look through the springs.
It is possible to remove the seals without lifting the head off.
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RLWP I'm not sure what you are referring to but my question still stands. I experienced a similar but smaller problem a number of years ago with a 1.8 and I will be happy to explain the cause and cure applied.
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When you did the top end rebuild did you put valve stem seals on the stems of the exhaust valves? If the answer is yes I have a suggestion about the possible cause of the problem.
Mike.
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I built a 46 foot boat with tiller and internal wheel steering using a push/ pull cable. The suppliers of the steering gear supplied them to fishing boats and rated the cable at a third of a ton! Mine was not the longest stock cable and the suppliers said that cables for much longer boats were available to special order.
Ive also tested a boat with hydraulic steering and found it to be very poor in comparison, the cable allows you to feel the pressure on the rudder and has a self centring action. The hydraulic set cost more than five times as much but gave the steerer no feedback at all .
We had a lot of enjoyment from the wheel steering and boated in some terrible weather!
if I have another boat I will definitely have dual steering again.
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The heater connection is a brass tube that sticks up from the head near to the thermostat housing, it may have been blanked off with a threaded plug. calcutt will have the part. As you say the centrifugal circulation pump will provide plenty of flow and pressure for your needs.
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Ball Park Figure To Weld In A New Well Deck
in Boat Building & Maintenance
Posted
Difficult for anyone to advise or make a stab at the price without knowing where the boat is or what your skills are!