mayalld
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Posts posted by mayalld
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This is indeed worrying news, I fear a tragic end.
Being trusting, and therefore nieve I thought all hire boats would be sent out in a safe condition. That despite knowing they are often sunk in locks, and how Canaltime actually have a plate welded front and back instead of doors, to try to prevent some of them.
So it wasn't until I read Sam's post a few days ago, when I learnt just how dangerous some are, and how desperate some hirers are to supply the boat.
I fear that you are being unfair on the hire companies.
I cannot imagine that any company would allow a boat to go out in an unsafe condition.
No company can ever produce a boat that is invulnerable to incident, but to suggest that boats might be going out in an unsafe condition is scaremongering.
The symptoms described sound very much like a plumbing leak putting fresh water into the cabin bilge, and people would notice a wet floor long before the boat sank.
Now I don't know the canals of the area at all, but if he hired for a week, how far would he go, and when would he turn back. I would assume this to be a fairly small area, so where is the deep water on this/these stretches. Are locks deep enough to hide a boat on the bottom without others running into it.No.
Even in a lock, where the invert is rather deeper than the general channel, whilst it might just be possible for a boat to sink to roof level, it would not leave sufficient remaining water draft to allow other boats to pass.
So, any sinking in a lock would have to be in a lock that nobody else has tried to pass since then.
Working on Middlewich's normal cruising area (on the basis that if there has been an accident, he was probably in the cruising area, rather than way off course), I can think of only one lock which this could be in, namely the offside lock 66 at Wheelock.
This lock is currently signposted as out of use, but is workable, and has no stop planks in place. If a boat had managed to sink in the chamber, it could have gone unnoticed.
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We are now considering a lined sailaway, which we can fit out ourselves. However, while I am confident of doing most of the fitting, painting etc, I would be aprehensive about fitting the gas, plumbing and electrics.
Is it possible to get these services installed by a third party?
Yes, however you may find that you are aprehensive without any reason.
Plumbing and electrics are *very* easy to do.
Gas system is rightly something that you don't want to mess with if you aren't confident, but that said, it isn't difficult, particularly on a new boat where you will probably be looking at only a single gas appliance (cooker)
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When did they branch out into fancy marine speedboats?
See http://www.leesinternational.com/
This looks like a very expensive project.
AFAIK, no speedboats have yet been built, or even ordered.
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So its Lees Narrowboats this time. My own experiences with them are as follows. I had a build slot deposit of £500 with Warble for some years but no fixed slot that I had agreed. Then when I heard that they had sold to Lees I wanted the money back as I feared the Warble style would dissapear, I spoke to Bryn Lees (early 2005) who said I should speak to the former owners which concerned me a little as when you take over a company the debt, good will etc goes with the company, anyway after some time I got the £500 back from the former owners who to be fair were very helpfull. Then 6 months later I went to see Lees as a possible builder for Lyra, I saw the workshops which were fine and they were building a boat on a Price Fallows hull, all looked fine anyway I was after a two thirds build boat and they showed me photos of a hull builder based in north Manchester they wanted to use which did not impress me as it looked like the classic brick shape with a pointed end, anyway I was set to go with them but a hull of my choice, they quoted £95k to build the part completed boat which I queried with them as I had costed the build myself and knew it was less than £60k. They said it was correct and I was not happy. Instead of saying that they were not interested they quoted a rediculous price to make me go away. When I met them they were full of themselves about 24 boats ordered from a foreign yard (I think they said Portugal), clearly this was they way they were going.
Surprised to hear that you weren't impressed with the North Manchester hull supplier. We've got a Lees boat built on one of those shells (Dual Duel), and were *very* impressed with the lines, far superior to the PF shell IMHO.
On the issue of the refund, as far as I'm aware, Lees did *not* take over Warble boatbuilders. They bought the premises, and rights to the name, but not the company.
In my view it is trying to expand into foreign imports that was their downfall.
They were good builders, and had plenty of skills in that line.
What seemed to be lacking was the ability to effectively quality control the subcontractors overseas. As a result many of the boats arriving from overseas required repair and rework before delivery. That will naturally have hit profit margins, and eaten into working capital reserves.
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it was your boat i looked (in there workshop)at when ordering mine both boats side by side ithink you would agree with me when i saw your boat then mine arrived lees have said they will sort the boat out thats fine as to giveing them a slagging off dead right wouldnt you the boat reqs new windows ,new paint job no not a fancy job but a proper job it also requires new doors internal joineryand finishing off how satisfied would you be if it was your boat as i said lees are prepared to do this and have not tried to fob me off but it still has to be said so the next time you post a reply make sure you know what you are talking about ta jeff miller i will post some pics when i sus out how to do it
I have the advantage over some others here, in that I have seen the boat. Only externally, so beyond that I'd be commenting only on what I read.
As to making sure I know what I'm talking about... If I'm missing out on some relevant fact, then tell me. I'm not too proud to admit if I make a mistake.
Wouldn't I give them a slagging off? Well;
If I'd bought a boat that wasn't up to scratch, and they weren't going to fix it, then yes.
If I'd bought a boat that wasn't up to scratch, and fixing it was going to seriously delay delivery, then yes.
If I'd bought a boat that wasn't up to scratch, but the builder was going to fix it, and do so without putting delivery back (and ultimately did so), then no.
For me, it's the end result that matters.
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Who do you consider to be the real proper boaters?
Is it the hardened 52 weeks a year live aboard types?
Is it the Saturday and Sunday plus 2 weeks a year plaything owners?
Is it the I've spent the kids inheritance on a real flash boat and a very expensive mooring and if the weather improves next year I might think about using it type?
Is it the it's a completely knacked skip, but messing with it gets me away from the wife type?
Or the it's going take me a few more months/years before it's finished or the interest runs out type?
Or the I don't actually own a boat but--- type?
Or the every holiday for 15 years we've hired a boat types?
Is it the eco warrior type living in the rust bucket hidden under the bridge somewhere?
Or is it a rarer yet to be discovered breed?
What do you fall into? I suppose all of them can lay claim to the title of PROPER BOATER.
Gary
There was a time when I'd have said this was a silly question, because I've always regarded all of them as proper boaters, and assumed that that they felt likewise.
I was put right on that one a couple of years ago by somebody who assured me that he was a proper boater, and I wasn't!
Coming down Marple locks, we encountered a boat mob-handed just about to turn a lock on us. I say we encountered a boat, but that isn't quite true. We actually encountered the lock team. The boat was nowhere to be seen, and was actually 3 locks further down. This was just the advance lock-setting party!
Upon gently suggesting that it might be more considerate not to set four locks ahead, and certainly not to turn a lock in the face of another boat, I received a tirade of abuse from one of the party, who assured me that he had been hiring boats for 30 years now, cruised for 3 weeks every year knew everything that there was to know about boating and wasn't in need of any advice from a Bloody Weekend Boater
Well, that told me!
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advice please, we are still designing our narrow boat (she will be a 70ft cruiser stern liveaboard due to launch May 06), we are being advised to fit sacrifcial anodes during the build - we would like to know others opinions on these additions - do we/don't we? do they work? are they worth the money? do they have to be renewed at each haul out? your opinions would be appreciated
Lynda
Opinion - fit them
Do they work - Yes.
Some suggest that they only protect the area of hull immediately adjacent.
This is only partially true. As the anode works, it deposits metalic zinc at any corrosion spot within six feet of the anode.
So initially the protection is limited.
HOWEVER, as they work, each spot where the zinc has been deposited becomes a mini-anode itself, and the zinc migrates to other corosion spots further away (whilst the original spot gets replenished from the main anode). It's a kind of cascade effect.
Provided you keep the anodes renewed, it stays in equilibrium, and they will protect the whole boat.
Are they worth the money - Yes! The cost in comparison to the cost of rectifying hull corrosion is insignificant.
Do they have to be renewed at each haul-out - Depends how often you haul out. You renew them when they are over 50% wasted (in fact you usually fit another set and leave the old ones to completely waste)
Oh, and as another poster suggested, fit a galvanic isolator if you have shore power. They are another thing that it is false economy to leave out.
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The surveyor that turned up prior to my visit was very thorough, he pulled up a floor panel which is best quality 0.75" plywood to reveal the floor beams which look like hardwood, he pronounced that all the floor panels should be lifted and the suppot beams should be "Tannalised" or replaced with pre-treated timber.
The floor removal also revealed that the steel down there was painted with twin pack epoxy. Bear in mind his estimate included for a complete paint job and a rewire which he apparently considered necessary , the story is which I heard second hand was that he considered the wires to be too thick.
Anyway I feel a bit uncomfortable discussing some one else's boat in this way, I will wait for Miller to respond.
Sounds like the surveyor was over-egging the pudding a little!
I can't see that tanalised softwood would be an improvement over the existing hardwood bearers. Indeed, I'm not too keen on use of tanalised wood in an enclosed environment. Tanalising means seriously nasty chemicals
Paint Job - yes it needs a complete repaint, but how much is he allowing for that? The spec for these boats is for a single colour with coachlining, not some fancy 2/3 colour job.
As to a rewire, I just don't see it. You can't have the wires too thick, and as a sailaway superior, a jumble of loose wiring tails is what you get. Making it look nice is down to you as part of the fit-out.
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been to see lees today they are being very good about the problem they have given me 3 choices
1 money back
2 new boat
3sort out my boat
i have gone for 3 i like the hull and if they sort out all the issuse with mine it will be fine they can turn out a very good boat and seem to be getting on track in morrocco fitters back next week and they say andy russell is to repaint it
Which would seem to be the outcome you want, and an outcome that you would have got without giving them a slagging off here.
As a (satisfied) customer of Lees' I did find your initial reaction somewhat over the top.
As I see it, the boat;
1) Had suffered damage e-route to the UK
2) Had a poor paint job
The builder has never tried to avoid responsibility for rectification of these faults, so I have some difficulty seeing what your beef was.
Missing boat - Holly - NOW FOUND!
in General Boating
Posted
Boats will inevitably develop faults, and some of those faults will be impossible to detect in advance.
However, I stand by my point. No hire company is going to send a boat out that it knows to be unsafe. They have too much to lose