MoominPapa
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Posts posted by MoominPapa
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He went through the lock in front of me, which I didn't mind because he was accompanied and I was single handed but about two hundred yards below Claydon Bottom Lock I caught him up again - he was tying-up for the night. He had barely covered a quarter of a mile and five locks since overtaking me and, of course, he had left all five locks set against me!
I had a similar experience on Well Creek. (Except the other boat's crew were very nice about it.) We were going ludicrously slowly and there was nothing I could do about it. I let our tail pass us at Outwell town moorings, only to catch them again at Marmont Priory Lock. Mrs Norton, the lock-keeper, knew we were coming and that both boats would fit in the lock together so there was no way she was going to waste two lockfulls! Half a mile below Marmont Priory lock, the Old River Nene opens out and it would be possible to run a convoy of five narrowboats abreast and still not bother boats coming the other way.
MP.
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Sounds like a fine idea to me!
There's a website out there somewhere with software to do petrol engine analysis from sound files recorded from an inductive pickup - just a wire wound around the HT lead, recorded with a laptop sound card mic connection.
PC
Hmm, computers are great at doing signal analysis, but I'm not sure I'd like to put the contents of a petrol engine ignition system anywhere near my computer, except through a very carefully designed interface, preferably including opto-isolators. Them chips are not known for liking kilo-volts up 'em.
MP.
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That's not the accumulator's fault, it's an inevitable cpnsequence of the way a pressure switch works.
Agreed, and unless you have some active system in the shower to keep the flow rate contsant, it makes yo-yo ing temps in the shower inevitable too.
It would also be a miracle.I thought that accumulator-less pumps worked with a calibrated feed-back from output to input. The pressure at the outlet rises until the flow through the tap + the flow through the feedback equals the pump flow rate at the balanced pressure, and then stays there. At least in theory, that should be better for the morco-driven shower.
Argh, there's no escape from differential equations, even in boats!
MP.
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I'm about to fit a shurflo pump and Morco heater for a shower and bathroom sink only, the installation instructions for the pump show the accumulator as optional.
What is the experience of people about the necessity or otherwise of an accumulator?
Can I use a Morco without a mixer tap to run the shower, setting the temperature on the Morco? or this a daft idea?
What is the difference between using a 20psi pump or a 30psi pump - they are rated at the same litres per minute.
We have a non-thermotstic mixer tap, (just hot and cold taps feeding the shower head), Morco and accumulator. It's not ideal. The fundamental problem is that the energy output from the Morco is fixed, apart from the two big and small flame settings. Therefore to control the shower temperature, in the end _all_ you can do it control the water flow: more water for colder, less water for hotter. With an accumulator, the pressure changes all the time, it increases when the pump is running, then the pump shuts off and it decreases. There's a corresponding change in water flow, and the shower gets hotter, colder, hotter, colder.
If you can arrange a water pump without an accumulator which provides a steady pressure, that may well be much better. I'm planning to try a thermostatic shower mixer.
MP.
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On my vdo tacho there is a little hole in the back with a tiny little plastic adjustment screw. Try shining a torch in all the holes see if there's something in there.
Also the ratio of crank to alternator is normally 2:1 I believe. Yours might just be fixed to that ratio, but its unlikely I would have thought.
The VDO tach I'm planning to use has a combination of switches to set a division ratio, and a trimmer for fine adjustment, according to the manual I downloaded.
Of course to do the twiddling requires _another_ way to measure the engine speed. Those shine-a-laser-on-the-flywheel tachos would be ideal, but I don't have one. A cunning plan I'm thinking of trying, (not done yet, so no idea if it will work) is to record the engine sound on the laptop. On my thumper, the ignition events should be blindingly obvious on a waveform display using something like Audacity, and I can just measure the time between them off the X-axis and do the maths.
It's either so cunning, you could put a tail on it and call it a weasel, or a mad scheme that will never work.
MP.
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Use a double pole double throw switch instead of a single pole. You can then use the other contacts to disable the starter button when the ignition is off.
Cosmetically difficult - I have the panel already with matching SPST switches
Use another relay.I think that's the winner. As I said, the NO contact of the alternator-controlled relay makes a great place to connect the hours counter, I'll feed the common contact via the iginition switch and the start button from the NC contact. All this is low-current stuff. Start button feeds the coil of a second relay which switches the higher-current solenoid circuit. The engine room layout means that by having a second relay I'll be able to make the higher current circuit shorter and keep it away from the engine panel too - added bonus.
Revert to your original plan and just try it. Put in the diode you suggested across the coil. So you know what you're up against, the problem with this idea is that, depending upon the size of the warning light and the type of alternator the warning light does not always get the expected 12 volts across it. Often only 5 to 9 volts is there which isn't always sufficient to pull in the relay. I've used 6 or 9 volt relays for this in the past but then you run into the risk of the relay burning if someone leaves the ignition on.Understood. The alternator is a bog-standard A127. No idea about wattage of light - I'd guess quite small.
Have you got a low oil pressure switch? You could use that disable the starter button.Not at the moment, just a big brass bourdon gauge in the engine room. I'm seriously considering an idiot-light visible from the steering position.
Thanks again for your help.
MP.
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Why?
The D+ terminal is on one side of the warning lamp. There will be a ground somewhere in the engine panel. How can that be more complex?
OK, you asked. I'm trying to arrange things so that all the circuits have a suitably sized fuse close to the battery terminal. I don't yet know what size fuse I need to protect the starter solenoid, but I do know that it's much larger than that needed for the engine charging and instruments. I'm therefore planning two fuses close to the engine battery, the low-rated one will feed the ignition switch (just a single pole toggle switch - not a keyswitch) and that switch will then feed the instruments and the charge light and the oil light and the Adverc.
The original plan was to have a relay which was energised when the charge light is lit, the larger fuse feeds the starter solenoid via the NO contacts and the "start" push-button. That disables the start button when the engine is running _and_ when the ignition switch is off - perfect.
The new plan uses a relay from the D+ alternator terminal to ground, and NC contacts. That disables the start button once the engine is running, but it doesn't do so whilst the ignition switch is off. I will need a second relay to do that. Actually this is not all bad, since it lets me generate a signal for the hours counter which enables it only when the engine is running, rather than when the ignition switch is on.
It's interesting: making this stuff work is easy. Making it so it doesn't catch fire if an arbitrary wire shorts to the hull, without making every wire finger-thick, is difficult.
Dunno, where's Snibble when we need him?Boating, I believe, like all sensible boaters at this time of year.
MP.
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I hope this hasn't already been done to death, but here goes. (if so, maybe point out the thread)
I see many NBs with the little rubber car type aerials on top, which I assume is for a FM car type radio ?, running from the 12v.
I had thought of using a 240vac standard FM/CD/Casette type combo as per used at home.
We have all the usual stuff, 240 vac inverters on board etc.
Could anyone advise "which is best", or give the benefit of your experience etc
Regards
Tony
Getting a good signal inside a metal tube is difficult, so a radio with an external aerial is good. 12v rather than 240v is likely to use less battery juice, after inverter losses are taken into account. Most boat have limited space and get bumped from time to time, so a compact box which can be built in, rather than a free standing one which ends up on the floor when you misjudge a lock entrance, helps.
All in all it seems to me that car radios win.
MP.
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Presumeably you are intending having a relay that switches ON when the alternators ISN'T charging and using that to provide a feed for the "start" position by feeding the relay coil between D+ and battery positive.
Yes.
Putting relays in parallel wityh the ignition can (not does) cause other problems.Better to put the relay coil between D+ and ground and use a changeover relay. Then simply use the normally closed contacts on the relay instead of the normally open contacts.
OK, that make life a bit more complex, but if it avoids messing up the charging system, it's worth it,
Related question: what's an appropriate fuse size for a 12v pre-engaged starter solenoid?
Thanks,
MP.
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Question for electical gurus:
I'm planning to connect a relay coil in parallel with the charge indictator light connected to the alternator, to interlock the starter button. Is there likely to be a problem with back-EMF from the relay coil possibly damaging the alternator controller (built-in or Adverc). If so can I protect the system with the standard diode, or will that cause other problems?
Thanks in advance.
MP.
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Well, I bought one of those B&D 30A chargers talked about elsewhere. I'd imagined it'd sit under the deckboards, but it needs switching on each time so it's going to have to go in the cabin.
I could do with unfastening it occasionally so for convenience I'm thinking about a plug and socket in the cable but 30 amps is quite a lot.
On impulse I've bought a B&D type 10A 240V plug, the ones that go between your lawnmower and the plug in the wall, but, it's 10A.
There's a lot of brass on the connections, and considering how much some of the other connectors seem to have it'd look alright to carry the current, but I'm not sure
Would you?
The right tool for the job is available here.
MP.
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That depends who you talk to. Personally I used them for 10 years (2 sets at 5 years each) and was extremely happy with them; so did a lot of other people. Some other people had premature failures; Elecsol themselves virtually diappeared off the map for about 3 years and were uncontactable so the guarantees weren't much use and those people weren't so happy.
I still think they're good batteries and would consider using them again.
Another data point. Melaleuca has 3x220Ah Elecsols. They were already installed when we bought her at the start of the year. There's a fairly comprehensive set of invoices with the boat which strongly imply that they were bought in late 1999, so they're coming up for eight years old. Whilst they don't have the "new" capacity, it's still possible to pull 200Ah starting from fully charged before the no-load voltage drops to 12V, which is as low as I like to go. That would imply that the bank still has over half it's original capacity remaining.
I don't know how well they've been treated before they came into my hands: the electrolyte was well down when I first checked (like, half a litre per battery down). The boat was a liveaboard on shore power for much of the time for her previous owners, so I guess the were on float charge a lot. The mains charger is a Waeco 45A unit which floats at 13.6 or so and zooms up to 14.4 when given discharged batteries. The Engine charging system is a 70A alternator and Adverc controller. The pulley ratio is high enough to generate 50A and tickover and full output at any revs significantly above tickover.
One more interesting result of looking at the invoice collection: there were actually four 220Ah Elecsols bought in 1999, three domestic and one engine start. The Engine start battery was replaced (with a non-Elecsol) in 2006, so it looks like it faired less well. I suspect that this is because the engine battery is not charged by the mains charger, so it was left to discharge for long periods without a float charge.
MP.
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My understanding from an occasional travelling companion on the train who knows someone who has a unit on the adjacent land, the old tracked crane had been sold and was being dismantled by the unfortunate person who was killed. I'm led to believe that said person was taking it away for scrap as the yard now have a new crane.
I can't confirm the above, its just what I was told. Mind you, I was also told by the same person that the yard had recently changed hands, whereas BBC East last night said that the yard had been in the same family for fifty years.
When we stopped there at Easter this year, it had just been taken over by new owners, so you source would appear to be more reliable than the BBC.........
MP.
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maybe Maggie was right to help close the coal mines. the coal is still there for when we REALLY need it BADLY in the future. This could be rather a good long term plan. If you keep your own materials in your own ground and deplete others' materials you end up keeping what you can easily get at, rather than selling it and relying on folding bank notes, which are remarkably difficult to generate power with or heat your home.
It's unlikely Maggie had any such plan, especially considering that we pumped the North Sea oil and gas as fast as we could and p*ssed the proceeds against the wall. The Norwegians used the revenue from their share of the oil to build a massive fund for use when it's gone, and Holland (I think) has kept back an enormous gas field as hedge against future shortages. The UK oil just got pumped to suit the multinationals - they loved Maggie.
MP.
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You had better keep that very, very quiet MP. I just hope that Lyn doesn't read this forum as that sort disloyalty warrants instant dismissal, held before the full glare of the marina elders. Don't forget you are on probation for the first ten years.
Oh, I'd keep the space at Bill Fen too; for high-days and holidays!
I thought that the 'connection' is going to be to the Nene between P'boro and Dog in Doublet.That's true, I think, but I've also seen an "artists impression" of a lock flight and aqueduct connecting the Well Creek to Denver over the tidal Ouse. Eliminating the tidal half-mile.
MP.
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PTFE dont work with diesel I belive it disolves it..........
This does work
http://www.heldite.com/html/home.html
It is the mutts but not cheap. I have had my 125ml tin for years.
Looks perfect, thanks. My credit card is straining in the direction of Midland Swindlers as we speak.......
MP.
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There are a few joints in the low pressure side of my diesel system which appear to be parallel threads sealed with PTFE tape. They leak, just a little bit, but enough to be annoying (and smelly). Does there exist a setting sealant which is suitable for use on diesel systems which I could use to re-make these joints?
MP.
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Hoorah! Being moored in the back end of nowhere in Cambridge (or at least, will be in a month and a bit), this'll help things immensely.
Don't hold your breath. I get the feeling it may be a veeery long time before the wizzy aquaduct from the Ouse to Well creek actually happens. (Or maybe you're thinking of the Bedford to Milton-Keynes waterway. That will move Cambridge closer to the centre of the boating world, but I think it's a different project.)
What I want is the Cam to Stort canal: I could keep the boat at Sawston Marina and cycle there from home.
MP.
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I’m trying to find an area near Stansted airport where I may view narrowboats. I have a limited time this Thursday the 24th of July and was hoping to find someplace near the airport where I might take some photographs and ask question about hiring and ownership. Any information would be appreciated. Thanks in advance
River Stort may be good. I believe the head of navigation is at Bishop's Stortford, about 3 miles from Stansted. You'll need a local to tell you what the chance is of encountering a NB there, and where to look.
Depending on time available, taking the train into London will find you plenty of canals and boats.
MP.
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WOW they know how to charge. There must be something else made by another that is in the real world.
All together now, boaters mantra: "HOW much!".
If you find an equivalent that's cheaper, please let me know; I've failed so far.
MP.
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One thing you may find is that depending on your Lister, it is probably designed for no more than 2000 rpm, with you seldom exceeding much over 1000 rpm in practice.
Most alternator driven tachos sold for diesel engines seem to be calibrated up to 4000 rpm, or even more, so 0-1000rpm represents a very small bit of the dial, so may be hard to read in normal use.
Tachos with suitable ranges do exist: see the first item here clicky
which I have saved for when I have enough spare cash and tuits. 0-1800 RPM suits the FR2 perfectly. That one runs off the alternator,
which seems to me to be by far the best way to do it, as long as you have an alternator.
I find a slow-reving engine quite difficult to judge by ear alone: because you can still hear the individual firing events event when it's spooled up, the brain somehow get's tricked over time into thinking it's going slower than it is. You only realise how fast it was reving when contrasted with tickover.
MP.
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Looks like a good setup, did you just use a belt around an unmodified flywheel? My JP3 is hand start only, but I may add an alternator at some stage, driven off the flywheel like this.
My FR2 has the alternator driven with a standard V belt running on the outside of the standard flywheel. It works fine, though I think the pulley ratio is a bit high: it overloads the engine a bit when it's running at lowish revs and the Adverc really winds up the output to charge well discharged batteries.
MP.
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From what we read on here mostly you'd think that BW never got anything right or did anything quickly or efficiently, so I just thought I'd redress the balance a bit. I phoned the EA, oooh, a good twenty minutes earlier, and theirs hasn't come yet.
When we came down the Nene at Easter, we bought a one-week EA license from Gayton Marina, and an EA key. The paper license was hand-written, and we stuck it in the front window.
In the middle of June, an envelope arrived in the post at home, with an address but no name on, franked by the EA, containing an EA key and nothing else. Then a week later another envelope arrived, this time with my name on it too, containing a printed copy of the license complete with April expiry date.
EA licensing is wierd.
MP.
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I don't mind being told something, but I would like to know the proper reasons for it. Just because the RNLI say no, and just because you think it is a gamble to assume that all my injectors are suitable is not a proper reason. All my injectors have an olive on.
OK, how's this as a reason for not botching the job: it you have a big leak, the diesel will just squirt out. If you have small hole, the diesel will spray out at VERY high pressure. Easily high enough to inject diesel straight through the skin of any bodily part you accidentally get too close. Injecting diesel into flesh kills it, potentially leading to amputation. I'd for hate Bones to end up with fewer.
edit for poor arrangement of lettersBah - you get that problem too?
MP.
diesel leak
in Boat Equipment
Posted · Edited by MoominPapa
In the spirit of recycling, when I asked on here about sealant for diesel, I was recommended this stuff:
clicky
Note that this recycled advice is brand new and unused, I've not found the necessary round tuits to actually buy and try this stuff yet. It looks good though.
I guess to apply it you would have to drain the tank.
MP.