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Radiomariner

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Posts posted by Radiomariner

  1. Tarleton Sea lock has no cill, the canal gradually gets as deep as the river bottom (or at least the river side of the lock), and the lock gates top and bottom are the same depth, so you can't get stuck on the cill. You could get caght on the gate sross braces though!!

     

    Onthe river side of the lock there is a kind of cill, but the tide would have to be very low for you to hit it, and I've seen deep draft boats get in much later than you'd expect before now, so it's pretty low down. You can see it when the tide is out.

     

     

    Hey! If you can see the bottom cill you cant use the lock!! (Unless of course the deep water is crystal clear)

  2. Hi Again,

     

    Can anyone explain this to me?

    I've been reading on forums and blogs and a few things have popped up that I don't understand.

    The first one is:

     

    'On the positive side the locks worked well and the paddle gear was

    mostly well serviced... but don't try to moor anywhere where there is

    no sheet-piling... and even then be careful.'

     

    My question is: What are the possible consequences of mooring where there is no sheet piling?

     

    Second question is: 'When we came back to the boat we found the pound had been lowered and we were hung up on the ledge.'

     

    What is a pound other than 100p : :)

     

    Thanks

     

    A sheet pile is what dogs often leave on the tow path. Moor up close to one of those and you are asking to get a mess in your cabin!!!!

     

    Heather

  3. RCD require either a fixed extinguisher in engine comparment or a fire port hole, have not seen many boats with either of these, are builders doing this. Or is there another way?

     

    David

     

    As stated in this thread by others RCD only applies to newly built or imported craft and home build craft less than five years old.

    However, as a surveyor carrying out survey for prospective buyers I would be using the RCD as a "standard" which if not met would be commented on in the survey report.

     

    With regard to engine space fire extinguishers, a new develoment is available, pyrogen, these extinguishers come in a number of types, are a bit more expensive, but have a life of ten years, and the small ones are ideal for narrowboat engine rooms. Although I saw one once during my training, I have never actually seen one yet on a canal boat.

     

    Try this web site.

     

     

    http://www.pyrogen.co.uk/products/index.html

  4. Some GU top gate paddles (proper term is 'centre paddles' to distinguish them from the 'gate paddles' which are in the bottom gates) have baffles fitted. This makes them MORE dangerous because people think 'straight up they've got baffles' then they do it on one without baffles. Load of rubbish and they slow the lock down and leak when they fill with debris. /rant/

     

    I Disagree Magnetman. These baffles usually take the form heavy steel plate and serve two functions related to safety

     

    1. If the paddles are opened too early (and that does happen) it prevents a torrent of water entering and possibly sinking a boat.

     

    2. The wooden beams of the gate structure where a boats bow is likely to get snagged under, again a possible cause for a boat sinking, are covered

     

    As for slowing the lock down what is the hurry! Unless the paddles are opened too early there is only about half a minute in it! I think if we wanted to go faster we would go for Formula1 cars not canal boats.

     

    Having said that of course I do admit to the occasional boast that I managed to do the **** flight in *** minutes, espedcially when I was younger. Nowadays (A wrinkly at 64) I consider the aspects of safety and damage to the gates etc and accept that there is never a need to hurry. Those that actully "run around" to get through as fast as possible are not only a danger to themselves but to others.

    I met an old guy once who was taking three small craft from London to Manchester by himself. I was amazed, he told me he was 92. His secret was, he said, "take your time, If these bl**dy youngsters are in a hurry they can help" an attitude that I have adopted and reciprocate on.

     

     

    Rgds

  5. Radiomariner, maybe when you're in a hole it might be better to stop digging;-)

     

    Howard Anguish

     

    I didn't feel I was in a hole!

    That last remark was in all sincerity. Our navy is crippled by lack of ships and men. When I first went to sea in the 60's piracy was never heard of, the Royal Navy was everywhere. In the last decade I have been pirated twice. Calling for help brought only sympathy not assistance.

    The remark was about the understood fact that the Royal Navy have ships in ports that go to sea and the Merchant Navy had ships at sea that go to ports.

     

    Oh yes, you might be right, I am digging deeper!!

  6. This would suggest you're wrong: www.fco.gov.uk

    OK I admit my error, they are still the F&CO and the & not the &C has been omitted from the abreviated title.

    Actually, with hindsight I remember visiting a pub on the cut (Navigation at Cosgrove) just about a year back.

    This was/is the nearest pub to a Country House owned by the Foreign and Commonwealth Office and the favourate watering hole for those that worked there. In my time we were not allowed to mention who we worked for, let alone what we did there. On my more recent visit there was a group of youngsters with 'T' shirts and sweaters with FCO blazed across them, and flashing their security badges! (They are not doing the same work now of course, that has all stopped now, 'there'.)

  7. As a former slave to the system can I get annoyed at people calling it the FO instead of the FCO?

     

    No Carl I dont think you can. I used to work for the F & CO as far as I know it was never the FCO. Also I believe,the '& C' was dropped from the title in the 70's.

  8. Thanks for that info Charles. That is pretty much the same as happened to me on the Thames, as described earlier in this thread to "Haggis". Only in my case it was the "Rubbing Strake" that got caught. Also had there not been four boats abreast, (Two narrowboats and two widish plastic boats) we would simply have slipped off. For us it was scary, but the plastic boat next to us had damage. He had largish fenders out (Scared of plastic boats) the weight of our boat against his fenders caused them to make dents in his plastic with radial cracking of the gel coat. He was not a happy chappy and gave me a right ear bashing in spite of me being the one to identify the problem and alert the lock keeper. I was gratefull to see him moor up just past the lock and stomp off to have words with the lock keeper. He re-appeared at the next lock but refused to go in while there were quote Steel Tubs" in there!

    I make light of it now, but I did feel sorry for him at the time, the boat looked new, white and glossy, gleaming chrome and with with a very red ensign. Him in his white ducks, navy reefer jacket and white topped peaked cap with a crossed anchor badge, was obviously not a vastly experienced boater, probably ex Royal Navy!

     

    Last evening a narrowboat sank in the Bank Newton flight heading towards Skipton on the Leeds and Liverpool canal. I have friends taking Lyra across this stretch for us who saw it and were delayed 5 hours while BW recovered the boat. They saw it happen and was all over in a couple of minutes. The usual problem was caught on the cill, the boat was only 5 weeks old. A tragedy for the owners

     

    Charles

    Before there is an outcry....

    I would like to add to my previous remarks.

    As an ex Merchant Navy Officer I have every respect for our Royal Navy. They do a good job and there should be a lot more of them. My remark was one of "friendly rivalry"

     

    Last evening a narrowboat sank in the Bank Newton flight heading towards Skipton on the Leeds and Liverpool canal. I have friends taking Lyra across this stretch for us who saw it and were delayed 5 hours while BW recovered the boat. They saw it happen and was all over in a couple of minutes. The usual problem was caught on the cill, the boat was only 5 weeks old. A tragedy for the owners

     

    Charles

    Before there is an outcry....

    I would like to add to my previous remarks.

    As an ex Merchant Navy Officer I have every respect for our Royal Navy. They do a good job and there should be a lot more of them. My remark was one of "friendly rivalry"

  9. I am a bit surprised by the suggestion that all locks should have the cill marked. I thought they did already! My recollection is that there is a white mark on the inside of the lock wall indicating the end (or start) of the cill. Sometimes this is accompanied by the word "cill" or even "sill" but I can't think off hand of a lock that doesn't have the cill marked. Sometimes there is a metal vertical plate but more often just a white painted line.

     

    Most Cills in my cruising area are also marked, but as pointed out above by haggis once the steerer is below the level of the lock top he no longer has that visual indication. If the boat is a bit on the longish side, around the time the steerer should be concerned about the cill his crew manning the lock gate are likely to be shouting that he needs to move astern a bit so they can get the gate open. When he sees the cill of course it is far too late. The steerer should remember, he is in control, advice from the lock top is welcome, but the cill is more important. The other can be sorted out later.

     

    Someone earlier in the forum mentioned port/starboard lists in locks due to mooring ropes which reminded me of an incident some years ago when locking down on the Thames. I recon the lock keeper had crammed about 14 boats into the lock. Steel hull boats along the edges, plastic boats in the middle. As the lock emptied I noted that we were starting to list a little. At first I thought is was just my crew moving from one side of the boat to the other. The listing rapidly worsened, I then discovered that my "rubbing strake" was hung up on a protruding brick in the lock side. Shouting and screaming at the lock keeper did not seem to be working. When the plastic boat next to me started to make strange 'creaking' noises I pressed the horn and kept it pressed. That did the trick. However, by the time he got the sluices shut we were over at an angle of 30 degrees or more, and small cracks were appearing on the gunwhales of the plastic boat where the fenders were starting to make indents.

    It does not happen often, but hanging up on the side of a lock is something else to be aware of. Also, to avoid sinking, make sure that horn works!

     

     

    Radiomariner

  10. Yes that's one possibility, or why not a 2 foot square notice on the rear bulkhead.

     

    ALWAYS POSITION THE BOAT AT THE DOWNHILL END OF THE LOCK

     

    You need more than a two feet sign. Youd need to remind them also to remember to keep an eye on the stern fender as well as the bow when locking up in case they get snagged under the gate. To look in two directions at once is difficult for a novice boater. I recall my son on one of his earlier driving lessons (Motor car) exclaiming " I cant do all this and steer as well!"

     

     

    Radiomariner

  11. A Durite clamp on DC current indicator costs about £25 and if you get the 75-0-75 amp one it will be fine for most alternators and glow-plugs. It will not be any good for measuring starter current.

     

    I have never seen a clamp on ammeter that will read up to 500 amps that would be an economic buy for non-professional use. You could buy shunts to put in series with the battery lead and then measure current with a voltmeter - but I doubt its worth it. Basically if you know the battery is serviceable and well charged, and the engine is not partially seized then the cranking voltage drops below 10/20 volts within 30 seconds you have a fair idea the motor has shorted. It will also be warmer than usual to the touch.

     

    Then you need an accurate multimeter for volts. If you are not interested in assessing the state of battery charge (hear we go!) vis voltage readings a £20 job from Maplin should be absolutely fine.

     

    Tony Brooks

     

    You can of course make your own shunt, usually somewhere in the region of 0.001 ohms (Depending on the range of meter you plan to put across it.

    I used a short length of copper bussbar and cuts a slot in it until the resistance was correct. Mind you, I cheated, I did not have a meter accurate enough to read the ohmic value, I already had an operational shunt with which to do comparrison checks under a fixed load. Keep hacksawing until it comes right, go too far then get another piece of copper and start again!

     

    Rgds

     

    Radiomariner

  12. Didn't realise boat sinkings were noteworthy. Usk sank at the w/e owing to excess rain.

    My Marker Harborough boat has a very high prow. I believe one of the reasons for this 'old' design was to prevent the boat from flooding in such an event, depending of course on the height of the cill from the lock bottom and the length of the boat. At least it would have a better chance than most modern boats.

    If this happens it must be tempting to quickly refill the lock again. I would be tempted, but not quickly, Slowly. As soon as it becomes apparent that the boat is not going to float or water starts entering the boat shut top paddles and open the bottom ones and call and wait for help.

    Two points : Your boat wont get flooded all the way through

    It is much easier to crane out a dry boat than one full of water

    Perhaps there is a place on the market for some sort of presure sensor that gives off a loud audible alarm at the slightest increase of upward pressure on the skeg. (Bit that hods the bottom of the rudder) Could take the form of a strain gauge type sensor. Should not be too difficult or over expensive Any electrical genuises out there? Remember it was my idea first!

    On second thoughts, this might result in more boats getting damage to their stern gear due to them testing their alarms!!!

    (A am assuming of course that stern fenders are always fitted so that they will lift if it was just the fender that caught on the cill)

     

    Regards

     

    Radiomariner

  13. Hi Alan.

     

    I was in a position not dissimilar to you a few years ago. I too considered taking the necessary training and becoming a surveyor, I looked into it in some depth to the extent of getting prices and so on for the course which combined with other expenses would be quite expensive. I was however put off the idea by my local chap who explained that there is such a glut of surveyors at the present time that arithmetically every registered surveyor will have two inspections per week even if they are distributed evenly, but of course a newcomer would be competing with long established chaps and also with those that have commercial connections with other marine businesses.

     

    So, much as I fancied getting involved I decided that it would be a struggle to find sufficient work to justify the initial expenditure.

    Thanks for the comment John.

    That's pretty much as I suspected. But why oh why can I never get hold of a surveyor when I need one?

    It would also be nice to have a BSS examiners cert, because lots of people require that at the same time as the survey, but there is a massive waiting list for the training course. My last BSS examiner said that there were already too many in the area, but then he would say that, wouldnt he?

    I would have thought there would have been a shortage of BSS examiners with the Broads now coming under the BSS Scheme.

     

    Rgds

    Alan

    (Radiomariner)

  14. Hi,

    Rob and Heather here. I hadn't realized he had joined before I did heheh so we are both seperate members. Not so bad really. I can do a disclaimer if he asks anything dafter than me.

    We are in the process of buying a boat - the very early process and it is all quite daunting really.

    We are currently looking for a surveyor in the Hinckley area, which has proved more difficult than I ever imagined. So many of them seem to be on holiday at this time of the year. Will know tomorrow morning if the latest one we contacted is available, but! there is also an alledged "fussy" surveyor who is available!

    Fingers crossed that when the boat is surveyed that it is going to be worth buying. It is a 1997 56ft narrowboat and looks very nice, but I haven't dived under to take a look and even if I did, I doubt that I'd spot anything.

    We thought about boat sharing and did look into it but we are both getting on in years and want to get away every weekend possible and every holiday possible so we decided just to take a huge jump and go for it.

    Assuming all is going to go well, I am jumping ahead to BBQ's. Can anyone recommend the best BBQ to buy? Gas? Charcoal?

    Makes would also be useful as well as ones to avoid.

     

    So glad I found this forum. Members seem very helpful and friendly. Hope that one day we can contribute and help others, but for now I'm afraid is going to be questions, questions, questions.

     

    Happy boating

     

    Heather and Rob

     

    Hi Heather.

     

    I am an ex Merchant Navy Marine engineer. (Yes big boats that go to lumpy places). I retired a little less than five years ago at age 60.

    Finding my brain deteriorating I studied for and obtained a Lloyds Academy Diploma in Small Craft Surveying with accreditation in Inland Waterways & Canal Craft. My intention was mainly to re-stimulate the old grey matter, and the subject chosen because I have owned a narrowboat for some 15 years and I naturally have an interest.

    It was not my intention to actually take up surveying but have recently considered the possibility of doing so on a part time basis to earn some pin money to supplement my pension. Here is my dilemma, my catch 22.

    To get recognised and an indemnity insurance I need a track record. To get a track record I need to have proof of work in the field. To get work in the field I need a track record and indemnity insurance.

    I am considering offering my services free of charge, (Except for any expenses) in order to get things going.

    I live in the Bedford area, Hinckley is about 55 miles, which I consider to be a reasonable travelling distance. Expenses (travelling and a meal) should be no more than £50 (Cautious estimate, probably less).

    As said I am presently only considering this. Although I had grade "A's and B's" for all my course work I am presently a little nervous about actually taking it up.

    You may contact me at Alan_Breck_Stewart@msn.com

    Readers comments appreciated.

     

     

    Rgds.

     

    Alan Stewart

    Dip. S.C. Surveying

    Reg No. SmCrSur 07-039

  15. In reference to matters electrical, 3 phase 32a current is different from most things on a boat, which current are you talking about when you talk about ground conductivity? It's ok for 230Kv (NOT 230v, 230,000v) and smaller 55Kv sub-stations, but not for boats. Even marconi had to use higher frequencies.

     

    As for the petrol only leads, I know some petrol engine leads come with 'slow blow' connectors, to minimise or avoid sparking in the event of a crash or dead short, these are usually shown by a thickening of the connectors near the battery. These can often blow at as low as 60a and in a cascade up to 120a, and so don't work on diesels. They've usually got electrical codes on the side, and it's worth trying to understand them. They're really only a feature on cars, but you don't say where the leads come from.

     

    If they do melt, it peels off quite nicely if you let it cool, really don't bother when it's hot.

     

    blueprince (a.k.a. 'stumpy')

     

     

    Well there you are Maveric. I did not know about "slow Blow" connectors. Seems extremely plausible, and the most likely answer to your original query

     

    Radiomariner

  16. My 1.5 Thorneycroft Mitsubishi drew 180 amps when cranking. I.m not sure if that includes the heaters as I.m not sure if they were isolated when cranking, but they drew 35 amps on their own. I would have thought 200 amp rated leads would be fine - they might get a bit warm with prolonged cranking but you should be able to monitor that.

     

    When My starter battery went flat I just held a spanner across thje terminals from the leisure battery

    .

    I think he means that his starter battery is adjacent to his Domestic Battery and have common negative terminals. He puts his spanner across +ve terminal of Domestic battery and +ve terminal of Starter battery and presumably holds it there while starting the engine. Not much risk if both batteries are fully charged, but remember one is not, possibility therefore of lots of sparking. If that domestic battery has been charging possibility of lots of O2 gas around and bang!

    Also possibility that spanner could shift and come in contact with a -ve terminal nasty bang again, and if 02 ignites even worse.

    There is nothing wrong with putting a jumper across, but make sure it is well secured before switching on. Dont do it too often thoug it could be bad for your deep cycle battery.

     

    Radiomariner

  17. Rupert.

     

    When you switch on your electric kettle at home half the circuit goes out through an underground cable, the other half probably comprises your front lawn, there is nothing new about passing high currents through the ground. Dirty canal water is an even better conductor of electricity and I don't think a thin layer of bitumen would present much of an insulation barrier especially as very few people paint the underside anyway.

     

    Unless both boats have batteries negative to hall and the hulls are actually touching, it wont work. Seawater has an ohmic resistance of something like two ohms per mm, Rain water something like 2,000 ohms per mm. Dirty canal water is somewhere in between nearer the rainwater side than seawater.

    Assuming the best of these, seawater, and a distance of approximately three inches between the boat hulls means a resistance of 1500 ohms, which with a 12 volt battery the maximum current plausable would be 8 milliamps!

     

     

    The reason for steel hulled boats making such a good contact with earth, is due to the very large surface area in contact with the earth.

     

    Regards

     

    Radiomariner

  18. similar suggestion that i have done twice

    1 remove prop

    2 get a good heavy duty plastic bag

    3 put plastic bag over the prop shaft thru the weed hatch

    4 fasten plstic bag around weld in section on the hull withh bungee chords tight

    5 remove stern tube inside as described earlier if you have enough room prop shaft as well

    no water will come inside if you do it like that

    good luck

     

    Of course, do nopt forget to remove the plastic bag!!!!

     

    Radiomariner

  19. Can any electrical boffins tell me why some jump leads say for petrol engines only? seen some today which say 200 amp but are not for diesel engines apparently.

     

    Soggy Moggies mentioned voltage drop. With a much higher current and if the lead is long, the voltage drop could be so great that the starting motor will not run. The starting motor may baulk before one of the cylinders reaches maximum compression, then with no "Back" voltage from the starting motor the current will increase even further, flattening the batteries in no time, that is if the cable or starting motor do not burn out first!

    If the starting motor stops turning when engaged to the engine, switch off immediately and investigate further. Try turning with the engin de-compressed as I said earlier

     

    I do not have any jump leads. Last time I helped someone out that way the other boat dissapeared down the cut with my leads still on board!

     

    Regards

     

    Radiomariner

  20. This is a new one to me.

    However I have some Idea to the reason.

    It is known that the cold cranking current for a diesel is greater than that of a Petrol engine, because of the greater cylinder compression needed.

    Starting current can be very much above 200 Amps.

    Having said that, a 200A Cable should be able to take a much higher current for a short period, such as for starting the engine.(There are calculations for this)

    However, in cold weather some, especially older, diesels can be a considerably long time cranking before firing. I guess that the manufacturers are playing safe and do not want to take responsibility for some mishap due to overheated cables.

    A 200 Amp cable is quite a hefty cable and not particularly practical for jump leads. It is possible that the cable is specified for 200 Amps over a certian time period in much the same way as a "slow-blow" fuse will take a higher current for short periods, only in which case for micro seconds

     

    If you have such an engine, and have the facility to de-compress the cylinders, for the first start on a cold morning (When you are most likely to require a jump lead), I suggest you de compress the cylinders until the engine is cranking quite rapidly then throw the compression levers over. (As you would with a hand cranked engine). This will be good news for your starting battery and should probably allow you to use that 200A cable. Examine the cable after use for damage or hardening of the insulating material, it only takes a few seconds of your time.

     

    Rgds

     

    Radiomariner

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