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David HK

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Posts posted by David HK

  1. So, does the last post actually mean anything to 99.999% of people ? Looks a bit like ego preening. 

    For me, Just going to load up a stack of batteries and see if I need more .  The Paracetomol effect ( because electrical always gives me a migrane)  or any other sciencey stuff is irrelevant to what I need. I just wanted to make sure I understood what I was reading on the label. No PhD involved.

    • Greenie 1
  2. Thanks to all who contributed. Yes, I have now seen the vetus items. Was suprised I didn't find that sooner.

    The thought about the cpacity of the steering pump is well made and will try and get the largest. The ram(s) will be a double acting cyliner I think. Depeneds how long a stroke I can get but If not adequate then I will just design a lever advantage mechanism to give me 90 Degs.


    Thanks all again. 


    Oh, the rope and pulleys info, that must have been designed by a RN Engineer. Read like an instruction manual for battle damage to the steering gear  and how to rig last ditch emergency steering !!  

  3. 12 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

    The C5 figure for 750Ah means you discharge at 150A and it’s flat after 5 hours. There is no data to show how long it would last at 100A, but more than 7.5 hours (ie more than 750Ah). One could probably do a calculation using an estimated Peukert value, but that is a bit complicated. I’d say around 8 to 8.5 hours.


    Thank you for exaclty the form of answer I was looking for.  I was a little confused looking at conversion calculations where it meantioned how dividing by 0.88 gave a C10 rate which then showed 852 amps. However all is clear in that I guess what it was actually describing was the more you suck out, the less it lasts.  Deep cycle LA Forklift 2v cells are normally fine on the 20% to 80% curve and there seems an awful lot of cheap cells about. We were going with LIFEPO4 but I think at the way prices are going we can wait awhile fot that route and save a ton of cash in the budget. Thanks again.

  4. 1) Telemotor Hydraulic refers to a non pumped liquid displacement, piston to piston arrangement. Loads of these kits for outboard setups. A powered hydraulic system will be total overkill and, yes, will have little feed back, wereas a telemotor system does.


    2) Notwithstanding peoples personal preferences and experiences, we are looking to fit the system for a practical purpose.


    3) What I am searching for is not experiences but info on systems. There is a dutch barge narrowboat design for sale on one of the FB pages and they have wheel steering. Maybe I will try and find it again and ask them. 

  5. Is there a narrownboat specific kit for moving the rudder using telemotor hydraulic. I see plenty for outboards and widebeams / dutch barges with wheel steering but can't seem to find a beefy enough kit suitable for a narrowboat..

    Are they homebrew kits? 


    Would welcome some practical infor on how to make the conversion. Maybe even electical with linear acuators?

  6. FYI - Because you think you know me, therefore you think you can treat me like a moron, I shall say this, then just ignore you and your unhelpfull tone.

    I have been a qualified mechanical marine engineer for over 50 years. From scrubbing engine room plates to, being IC of a carrier propulsion unit, to being a charge engineer of my own department, managing refit projects in the millions and projects in underground facilities. I am a qualified submariner, Bisley marksman and Judo 1st Dan Black Belt, which like the answers you gave has zero relevace to the subject in hand. 


    I have the abilty to understand English because being native born, living in a foreign land, I teach it now in my twilight years and have professional quals so to do as well as writing a book on the subject. I also understand rules, regs and laws through my experiences before. In the service I co chaired meetings with PSA and Dockyards on ship issues and civil engineering issues. I am not an electrical expert but that means I have a cadre of people whom I worked with before that actually designed the systems on the RNs new carriers and air defence ships. Narrowboat tech is Lego to them.



    Rule one: In any project, ask the knowledge base for their views. Even though your mates are more knowledgable on stuff in general.

    Rule two: Study the problem because loacal time served experts will always throw you a curve ball.

    Rule three: Suffer no fools.


    In regard of rule one. I do not know the Liverpool area but it is highly possible we will build our boats there AND ........... because the local builders are inland on estates and have their own fit out operations, it is highly unlikely they would be forthcoming in the sort of info we need.



    18 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:


    Once to get to 12 people on board it opens up a whole new raft of requirements.

    Read the regs. OVER 12 passengers. NOT how you describe. Does not include crew.

  7. 3 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:


    Are you sure? I bet the MCA have regs in resect of the electrical, gas and fuel systems. Also means of exit and so on. You also will have to take account of their requirements for life-saving equipment. However no idea where Alan got the idea you are doing a commercial fit out.

     WTF HAS THAT GOT TO DO WITH A HARD STANDING ? Oh nothing. I rest my case.

    On the facts we have posted before , you don't think we have the basic gumption to understand the regs and consult before we commit?  Maybe you do, not me.

  8. Just now, Alan de Enfield said:


    Maybe you don't think that the fitting out requirements are also covered in the regs ?


    Just trying to help, but I'll leave you too it.





  9. 6 minutes ago, IanD said:

    We're not disagreeing here -- as I keep saying electric is expensive now but the cost is dropping, ..


    I'm a fan of new technology (used appropriately!) which is why I'm having an electric (OK, series hybrid) boat built, but I also recognise the disadvantages and especially the cost at the moment...

    Can I put a smiley face here?  :)  

    Our design on paper and because I live and work in the Far East where we have really cheap stuff through TaoBao etc .... and the quality problems too if your not carefull, is slanted towards the best cheapest option with quality any where because we  have a special contemporary design for a unique use and a budget we should stick to.  Guys, Midland is not going to get nearly a grand for a macerator toilet, when I need 4 for my project and I can get less estheticly designed last century options at a quarter of the price (UK sorced) delivered to my door.   Not getting a / aa premium veneered ply because exterior b/bb (UK souced) is just as good. Which brings me to propulsion.


    My original post was more "throwing it out there" and I am gratified that ya'll have responded in that spirit. I see reason in some things where before I has questions.  To OUR propulsion design we really want to go the electric route on space issues primarily. However, going the LIFEPO4 route, shiny Blue Electric Boxes and tiddly Lynch motors would mean we would never complete the fit out. So as we stand its Clacium LA 230amp 12v in a 4p 4s config, Its a 1/4 to 1/3rd cheaper than Lithium and can last a real long time if you treat them right because they are built like tanks for the mining industry.. Pair with the aforementioned 10kW motor, which the data sheet from the original build tests says that should enough. Solar, as much as I can get and a suitable generator. Was pleased to see here that 8kW may be enough. A lot cheaper.  The power system will be controlled by those new fangled Off Grid Solar contollers that do everything 4 expensive Blue Boxes do because we have to have a high 230 load due our kitchen requirement ( we have to hot feed 20 people twice a day ) and lots of pumps, 24v stuff and bow thrusters in a 57ft hull form. 


    We want to be as 21st century as possible but like the prop answers, have to be practical as well.

  10. 2 hours ago, peterboat said:

    I have that large 36 volts valence LifePo4s battery bank paralleled to give 72 volts, big solar array and 6kw genny, the prop I have works fine.  The gearing and prop must be about right as the motor revs all the way until the last few millimetres of the speed control lever, constant running produces little motor or controller heat.

    Honestly an expensive propeller can be wrecked in seconds by picking up a mattress, tyre or large lump of wood.

    I have had an electric boat for 4 years and have settled on my current setup, Ian has just ordered one built by Johnathan Wilson and Finesse boats, most of their current production is electric drive so I think that they know what they are doing. 

    I would love to have the details of your propulsion because we are in the middle of doig the design work on the boats. How many batteries , amps etc. How big is your solar and how much does it contribute to charging and domestic loads. How fast is your charge to full from 50% on your 8kW gene?  I have so many questions. Maybe I can give a whatsapp number annd we could become digital pen pals!


    I have said I am not a fan of the Lynch motors either 48 or 72v models but that comes from an academic standpoint reading data not an experience one. Such high kW rates and for what.?The experienced posting on these forums before, of a widebeam cruiser ( was it yours? ) shows you never get near the amount of the rate. I think 3.3kW to get 3mph. I would thing a 10kW motor with good torque would be more than enough for a cruising narrowboat and widebeam also. You only need full beans on short occassions starting off or manouvering to a stop or to take speed off quickly.

    • Greenie 1
  11. 3 hours ago, IanD said:

    The efficiency difference between a standard prop and a beautiful CNC-machined one will be tiny, maybe a couple of percent at most, because how to design a prop has been well known for many years and everyone uses similar turbine designs because that's already the optimum. For high-speed and high-load multiblade props with much higher power density the difference may be a bit bigger, but we're talking about narrowboat here not nuclear subs or ultra-large ships.


    "The only obvious drawback is price. Currently, every MX-1 propeller has to be milled from a solid billet of metal, which helps explain the price of $4,500 for an aluminium MX-1 or $9,000 for a stainless steel one."



    ... and these sort of responces have been seen whenever new and expensive tech hits the market. Lots were said about horse against car, IS happening about ICE vs electric when a Tesla has a crash.  As regards expense, then of course a precision one off hand made by robot is going to be loads more than a simple item made with 19th century tech. BUT as Henry Ford might have said, " wait till I get my shit in one sock and the prices will tumble."


    You have a good argument for now, but now is not where we are going and the ICE is out , even on the canals, in the not to distant future which, if it is to be really economical, just like a modern Euro X diesel, is going to need tech to be economically available and just because something never has doesn't mean it never can.  Love to have this discission at your local Frog and Trumpet when I return to the motherland and get the boats built.

    • Greenie 1
  12. Electric Drive - That is what this is all about. New tech begets new tech. If your prepared ( at the moment ) to pay fortunes for LIFEPO4 battery banks or exotic hand built motors and the associated generators, controllers et al. then prop cost, which you might consider expensive on its own, really is insignificant and yes, like non stick frying pans, the answer may come from other tech endevours.



  13. 3 minutes ago, peterboat said:

    I have fitted the lynch motor in Ian its peak power is 26kw but I  reality 13kw continues is the most I expect to use. When the new controller arrives I will know better what its using, but I expect it to be better than the old series motor.  Its running 30 teeth to 80 teeth which  is 2.666666 to 1 which seems to work ok, the belt is a high quality item which should do ok, I do have spares though 

    Those power figures look, on paper, horrendous. It runs 48v so how many amps does it actually suck out of the 

    battery bank every hour for you?

  14. 8 minutes ago, BEngo said:


    The kitchen rudder (buckets round the prop) is the invention of the devil.  It was  very manoeuverable once you had the skill but getting the skill took ages, and it still need a clutch for when you wanted to stop.



    Kitchener gear not Kitchen,  but once you posted my brain woke up from a 30 year leep. i was a motor boat mechanic as one job and the boats with this were normally big MF load luggers. Not officer boats and I agree with your comments. Would be a lot easier controlled by a micro controller these days. As someone has already commented the shollow bottom a detritis may cause more problems than provide benefits.



  15. 25 minutes ago, peterboat said:

    We used to run slow revving high torque engines like electric motors can do, but our canals are to shallow for those propellers required for them I have a lynch motor 3 2 1 gearing works fine, you need to see what we have to work with before trying something that will work in deep water but will  e destroyed in days on our shallow muddy ditches 

    I see your point. Thanks.

  16. 2 minutes ago, peterboat said:

    You can buy variable props  it's just their life expectations are very short! The issue is the bottom is to close to the top so that they would hit something and break also they would be running in a mud slush!


    So why dont cannal boats have ducted / cowled props?


    Back in my navy days we had ships boats with " bucket drives".  The prop just spun in one dircction and two halves of a bucket produced direction.  Hand opperated but with todays tech may be easy to incorporate?

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