Tash and Bex
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Posts posted by Tash and Bex
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1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:
Ah - so you have mains now , or, are you looking to power the immersion from the inverter ?
Sorry to confuse, no I was describing the method of operation in a solar domestic hot water situation. I continue to not have hook up.
substitute the heat source for diesel and it's pretty much the same deal though.
5 minutes ago, bizzard said:That's a shame, think of the electricity you'd save, never mind the minimum of hot water needed.
yes, but at what cost!
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2 minutes ago, bizzard said:
The bath or rubber bath could even be designed to drain through the plug hole up hill without a pump!, by just positioning the plug hole roughly in the middle but precisely beneath your bottom. By fumbling under to pull out the plug and then bumping your bottom up and down upon the outlet hole should cause the water to be forced uphill and out overboard. Its called the ''Bum pump'' method, which is very good excersize too.
honey, if you want to have coitus with a rubber bath then fill ya boots, I don't have the correct equipment for same.
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12 minutes ago, bizzard said:
Ah. You will need a special fully adjustable bath, made of rubber with lots of little mini winches all around it to alter the size. The rubber expandable bath in its natural unexpanded state would accomodate one person, and winched to stretch it outwards to accomdate two persons, or even more if good quality rubber is used. One of these rubber baths might be found on Gumtree or Rubber tree quite cheaply.
indeed, or I could simply design it to fill with hot water?
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5 minutes ago, bizzard said:
For the minimum amount of hot water needed, Ideally choose the correct size of bath for you, that you fit in quite tightly but comfortably.
lol, I'd rather prefer it to fit two in....on occasion!
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1 minute ago, bizzard said:
The amount of hot water needed for this bath depends on the displacement of the bather. The bigger and fatter the person is less hot water would be needed, not only that but the fatter person will impart more body heat to the already hot water and keep it hotter for longer and increase the time spent in the bath. Skinny folk would need more hot water depending of course on how skinny they are. A solution for the storage of hot bath water could be to buy up a couple of hundred 1pt Thermos flasks and spend happy time filling them with hot water from a kettle ready for the baths. Again how many you need to buy and fill depends on your body displacement. If you happen to weigh about 30 stone and have a standard sized bath then not much hot water would be needed at all, in fact probably just a few Thermos flasks full. Actually a person of that gross displacement would quite quickly heat a bath full of cold water by body heat alone. Hope this helps.
I suspect it helps exactly as much as you think it will, though it is at least on topic.
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6 minutes ago, Paul C said:
Agreed, with the right type of plastic it should be entirely possible. And with suitable bracing, the tendency to balloon will be mitigated if its too thin to retain its own shape. Loads of components in engines are now made of plastic - you've probably heard of plastic inlet manifold etc. I believe some cars now also have plastic sump.
It will be a ramp function of temperature and time. Not massively dissimilar to pasteurisation.
I think most modern cars have a plastic inlet manifold now, I've not heard of the sump yet, I'll ask my partner, she kinda knows about these things, she's a development engineer for MIRA currently working on something she's not even allowed to tell me about save it is for a british sports car manufacturer favoured by 007!
I think it is all controlled by an external plc, temp is monitored and if it doesn't rise above the preset point within a given timeframe it switches the immersion on to do so. A little Raspberry Pi and a couple of piggy backed I/O and monitoring boards should make that easy enough.
I then could stick the whole lot on the boats 4g network and add a bit of programming so I can see how hot the tank is from the thermal, and if need be stick the heater on i can do that from my phone.
my boat already texts me if its on fire, or sinking, or has been moved, and I can tell her to switch heating on etc (I'd considered even getting her to light the stove using an electric match, but I've not done that yet!)
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Just now, Paul C said:
I think the main reason hot water systems are designed to raise the temperature ~60degC or above, then its later mixed with cold water, is to counteract microbial growth which can occur (and is the pathway for legionaires disease). However I'm not an expert on it and don't know all the details. Once you are talking about hot water, possibly under some pressure, then it determines the material/shape of any hot water storage vessel(s).
indeedy, the common solution to that in home based thermal hot water systems is to automatically raise the temp above a level (i think 65c) on a weekly basis, this thermally disinfects the tank, so I would need to check with the manufacturer that it can handle that type of temperature in the short term. however car header tanks are made of at least a similar plastic, so it may be possible to use one of the cheaper tanks rather than having a stainless one made.
In terms of pressure, there won't be any, there will be expansion room using a little tank which can be vented outside if it proves to cause condensation issues
3 minutes ago, Paul C said:Just for clarity my post was a quote from stegra's link. I think www.gasapplianceguide.co.uk simply assumed the water would be heated to >60degC, hence the tank shapes they prefer to offer.
He voluntarily left the forum and gave up narrowboating.
shame, he was an interesting bloke. Without him I wouldn't have included some of my "crazy" ideas on my boat....most of which I might add are still working perfectly after ten years, and he would have definitely loved my "project tropical fish" I mean, who does put a trop tank on a nb!!
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Does anyone know what happened to Gibbo, he would have at least understood the question!?
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2 minutes ago, howardang said:
That may tell you something!
Howard
indeed, it tells me of a lack of critical thought. I am perfectly fine with being told my ideas are not going to work, as long as when I respond with "why" the reason they give is "because nobody else has tried it"
I might remind you of the title of the thread.
Does any part of that title suggest that I want information on how to plumb a boiler in?
Yet that is all I am getting.
Nobody can give me a SINGLE argument for why "my" suggestion WON'T work, except to tell me it won't
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1 minute ago, Athy said:
We haven't seen him since 2012, I'm afraid.
aww shame, ty
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25 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:
Oops, forgot the smilie!!
Mike,
I thank you for your off topic "contribution" to this thread, I believe you have contributed all you are able.
If there is ever a time I need advice on how to suck eggs, I will be sure to ask you again, meanwhile I will stick with my curiosity rather than blind belief.
I wish you well.
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2 minutes ago, howardang said:
May I respectfully suggest that if you want clarification about whether what you are suggesting is compliant with the BSS, why not just ask them? It would certainly cut to the chase, unless , of course, you just enjoy a discussion for discussions sake because you certainly seem to know your own mind and have an answer for most other suggestions.
Howard
Howard, I have only had one suggestion as yet, it was discussed.
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6 minutes ago, smiler said:
Ok - outside the box
No storage tank needed
Install the bath and insulate under with builder's foam
Make an insulated lid for the bath, hinged on the wall side
Use the bath as your storage tank and circulate the water through a solar-thermal system on the roof
When it reaches 38 degrees - bathtime
Only drawback is whether there is enough height for the hinged lid, although I hear sunken baths are in fashion again.
a similar idea was mooted several pages ago, I considered the idea of similar except using a webasto to provide the heat, fill the bath with cold and switch the heater on, hey presto it circulates water until the desired temp is reached. I could write a little app and do it remotely, would be fun.
I think your idea does have merit however, maybe a bit of insulated pool cover may be more sensible than a lid
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23 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:
Theoretically yes, but you will only block their own posts. Every time somebody who you haven't blocked quotes one of their posts, youwill see their words quoted anyway.
So not much use, really?
Easier to just get to learn what to ignore.
Or find a different site, where less people annoy you.
Yes Alan, that is the conclusion I am fast coming to. I was an active member of the site about ten years ago but left because of the arrogance of certain members. I was hoping the dinosaurs had become extinct by now but sadly not. Do you know if (I think it was) Gibbo is still about, he showed strong evidence of the sort of critical thinking I like?
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12 hours ago, Kudzucraft said:
First, I confess I have only quickly skimmed all the posts, so this may have come up. But why not one of the on-demand gas heaters? I confess I know little about using one on a boat, but I have seen a few installed. They don't take up a huge amount of space and just heat the water as you need and (I assume) as much water as you want. They are really gaining in populartiy in residental use and always struck me a great idea. Since you don't see them very often, maybe there is a big disadvantage I am not aware of?
not really, and tbh it is probably what I am going to end up doing, in conjunction with my second water tank. I have been trying to avoid gas simply because I would prefer a gas free boat, and currently the only gas appliance I have is my cooker, which I hope to replace in the future.
It does unfortunately preclude me from gathering solar hot water, but hey ho eh!
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Is it possible to "block" some of the less helpful people on this site?
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7 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:
They would do fine too, if a nice high power one is selected.
The OP however, wants to "think outside the box", meaning he rejects all the obvious, practical and efficient methods in favour of difficult, awkward and less effective ways.
He? great observation skills, impressive.
Allow me to correct your post. I reject the obvious, practical and efficient methods in favour of a solution, whilst other more "traditional" thinkers just do what everyone else has always done as they believe it is the most practical and efficient way. I believe we call that "invention" and it has come in handy over the years.
Some of us are not satisfied with what other people have told us is the "only" way to do it and ask "why?"
It's fine not to be one of those people Mike, which is why I mentioned outside the box thinking, I did not want people telling me how other people do it, I have seen that, I am quite aware.
But thank you for your negative comments, I am reminded of why I left this site in the first place.
To make things crystal clear, I am asking for clarification as to whether what I am suggesting is non-compliant with the BSS, and expanding on this, wondering if anyone else has done similar, I am not asking how to make hot water for a bath.
I think Terry Pratchett once said something along the lines of "I'll be more enthusiastic about encouraging thinking outside the box when there is evidence of any thinking going on inside it."
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Exactly Tony,
The only difference to your suggestion is that I wouldn't have it professionally installed and that I would buy a second hand unit.
They are designed to run constantly even when unattended and I would have little compunction doing so ergo I would not need to run it outside of the 8-8 guidance hours.
Lithium is certainly an option, I have been investigating the 48v home battery solutions that are appearing to market as well as an electric drive alternative to my diesel propulsion
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4 minutes ago, Sea Dog said:
The first bit has been achieved with aplomb a multitude of times by boaters - it's the last bit that's the trick...!
it certainly does no harm
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Just now, Cas446 said:
I use a webasto thermo top v to heat a medium size paddling pool for the kids. Takes about 2 hours to get warm, three hours and it's very toasty. The kids love it. Heats the water directly. It's my spare for the boat.
I've done that, in fact I stuck an old one in a little flightcase and i used to take it on camping trips for a good shower, little toilet tent, bilge pump and my webasto flightcase all fitted in a plastic crate, take it all out of the crate, fill the crate with water and stick the webasto hoses in.
ten minutes later the bilge pump delivered the hot water to the shower head, it was ace!
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3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:
Just be very careful if using an automotive one.
1) The voltage is slightly different
2) The chip is different
3) It is not a sealed system and Carbon Monoxide (and other nasties) can leak out into the boat (on a car they just 'drop down' and under the car.
It can be done but will cost considerable cash to do it so it is safe, and, works correctly.
Indeedy, I've played with many in my time, product of having a friend at webasto who tries to make them break then makes better ones.
the marine ones do indeed start at a lower voltage, and have a lower voltage shutdown, there are a few other minor differences in the programming, but tbh they don't much make a difference.
In terms of room sealing, the only real difference is in the exhaust, stick it through a skin fitting and happy days!
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5 minutes ago, Paul C said:
I think you're making progress!
Its probably worth asking "why is everyone installing a £500 calorifier instead of an £84 plastic rectangular tank?" If you can counteract those answers accurately, then it sounds like a good plan.
I suspect that the main reason is that a calorifier is designed for 85c water and to run at just under three bar, and a plastic tank...isn't
but as I pointed out in my original post, it only needs to fill my bath up, my far more conventional calorifier can continue sorting out the rest
Just now, Sea Dog said:Stop now. Save the work, the expense, and the complications - just check in to a nice hotel when you feel like a bath. That's not only "outside the box", its outside the boat!
lol, it's happening, my other half demands it!
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Just now, stegra said:
My fresh water tanks are like the one shown in the link below, albeit 400 ltrs each. The wall thickness is very substantial, probably 8mm. I'm sure they wouldn't deform too much at 40 degrees but I've no idea how they might perform at higher temperatures.
that's the badger! exactly what i am talking about!
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8 minutes ago, Paul C said:
Well yes it comes down to cost, but a side effect of your novel rectangular unpressurised tank is that it will bulge and if installed eg snugly underneath a bed, break the furniture around it. I know we're talking about low pressures but still, with thinnish plastic, it will distort. Ask any balloon artist who makes more intricate pieces than simple sausage dogs, etc.
If you went for a much thicker tank, and/or some kind of metal framework to suppress this, then fine - but then its going to get more costly.
The key aspect is the pressure - I know you've said its vented, therefore completely unpressurised, but I think if its well ventilated then there will be a horrendous inefficiency due to losses as it gets warmer. So, you want a little pressure, just a few psi would be okay. That could be achieved without a PRV, simply by having the vented outlet up a narrow tube, around roof height on the boat. Its certainly possible to do it.
I'd focus more on the heating source - do you already have a gas or diesel water (and/or space) heater? They're quite expensive, around £2k but it tends to be a once-off install and a piece of equipment which is very useful (in siuations where you don't, or don't want to, run the engine as in a traditional single coil calorifier). I'd spend a little more and go for bigger rather than smaller, if you've not bought one of these yet.
ETA - just reviewed the OP, I see you have a Webasto, that should be fine but obviously it will take some amount of time to heat up a bath-full of water.
i do have a webasto, but i am thinking of adding a second, a 5KW webasto will heat 150l with a 40c rise in around 40 minutes.
they are commonly available from breakers yards now, as they are fitted to many diesel cars. I can get a working one for around £50!
In terms of tank expansion, I am considering a tank very similar to my waste tank, and whilst doubtless this does distort when full, it's not by much. it will be interesting to see if 40 degree water has a similar effect!
1 minute ago, Mike the Boilerman said:The main advantage of this is it would make a truly first class fast breeding ground for legionella.
indeed, I refer you to my many earlier posts on in this thread which mention that
"outside the box" thinkers only please!!!
in Boat Building & Maintenance
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My attitude is rather reflective, and I choose friends with care, please feel free to ignore me or block me or whatever one does on this site.