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wetfoot

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  1. I'm not surprised that you fail to understand why peeps want a unit running at 10.5v nobody would! I don't want it to run at 10.5v - I'll be running it on standard 12v Lithium leisure batteries which I hope never drop too much below 12V. The issue with the vehicle version appears to be that the ECU assumes you are using the same 12v lead acid battery as that used for starting the engine. So the heater ECU will turn off the heater if the PD drops below 11.8v in order to save the battery and allow you to still start the engine. (a PD of 11.8v can happen quite normally in a vehicle, especially during starting on on heavy drain) The marine ECU assumes you are running on leisure batteries that are not also used to start an engine and so it is more forgiving and doesn't shut down the heater until the PD drops to an alarmingly low 10.5v, something I hope my lithiums never do, although they could drop below 11.8v during normal operation. So maybe instead of saying I need one that can go down to 10.5v maybe I should have said I don't want one that shuts down at 11.8v
  2. Sorry, but I have no idea what that reply means.
  3. I am getting quite confused trying to buy a Thermo top C water heater for a 50 ft wide beam canal boat. I know I need a Thermotop C heater that will tolerate a lower battery voltage for use in a canal boat rather than a vehicle. I understand that vehicle types will shut down at around 11.8v so that there is still some PD left to start the engine whereas 'marine' ones have a different ECU and can go as low as 10.5v running on leisure batteries. I want the latter one, the one that goes down to 10.5v.. But this is where the confusion sets in. ButlerTechnik sell a 'marine' one referred to as the Thermo Top C 300 here with a Webasto product code of 41K5083C. They also sell one that does not include the word 'marine' as product code 9003168C Page 30 of Webasto's catalogue here agrees that the 41K5083C is a marine kit and the 9003168C is for vehicles. However, it also says on page 33 that the Thermo Top C 300 is for motorhomes so I'm confused as to whether the 300 really is a marine model or not. To add to the confusion, page 30 of Webasto's catalogue also lists what it calls a Thermo Top C Narrowboat kit with a product code of 41K5037C So Now I'm confused as to the difference between a 'marine' one and a 'narrow boat' one. Several other sellers sell what they call 'Thermo Top C marine' without even mentioning 300. Is there anyone on this forum that really understands all this and can tell me exactly which model to get for the narrow boat running off two big lithium leisure batteries? (I did try to contact Webasto themselves but they don't seem to want to talk to private customers, just re-sellers)
  4. So what is the alternative to a cone box?
  5. Yes, maybe its worth taking it off again and checking the drive plate. I'm kicking myself that I don't look at it more carefully when we had the box off but its only since then that I've heard they are prone to fail. What makes the TMC60 appalling? There is so little in these marine boxes that apart from poor quality steel I can't see much that can go wrong. (I'm not doubting your comment, just interested in the reasons as this is all a new field for me)
  6. wetfoot

    Dave Clarke boats anyone used?

    My son has just bought a Dave Clarke boat second hand. There is a picture of it in the gallery on their website, ninth row down, the blue one on the transporter lorry. Built in 2012. Out of the water survey came back full of praise for the design and construction and it only needed re-blacking before being put back into the water. Boat construction is very good - internal decoration by the previous owner leaves a lot to be desired however (:-(
  7. Thanks Richard, That's similar to the manual I was looking at (although mine was in English (:-) ). I can now see the intermediate gear and it all makes sense (apart from the knocking!).
  8. Thank you Boater Sam, that's very useful information. That explains why the schematics diagram appears to show the forward gear smaller than the rearward. Makes sense now to double up the input shaft to act as the layshaft as well. Also handy to know that forward gear = reverse of engine rotation. The knock is the same in forward and reverse, although not in neutral so if the intermediate gear is always engaged, even if its secondary gear is disconnected from the output shaft then it could be the intermediate gear. Otherwise it might be to do with the output shaft as that is the only thing turning in forward or reverse but not neutral.
  9. My son's recently acquired boat has a technodrive TMC60 gearbox that we had to take off and repair as the bolts holding it to the engine plate had sheared. (bolts are 8mm but holes in engine plate were 10mm so no wonder they sheared). We got it all back using bushes in the holes but I have a couple of questions about the box if anyone is able to help me. 1) The boat runs OK and drives in forward and reverse but when the prop is turning there is a rhythmic knocking sound near/inside the gearbox. It's not there when in neutral so it must be coming from somewhere after the drive plate. The gear box is pretty simple so I can't imagine what could be knocking inside it. Do these boxes usually make such a sound? If not anyone any idea what it could be? 2) With the engine off and the box in forward or reverse gear my son could can rotate the prop shaft. That shouldn't be possible as he should be trying to rotate the engine as well if its in gear. He said he could rotate one way but not the other. How is this possible unless the clutch is seriously slipping, which it can't be as the boat drives well. 3) This one I'm embarrassed to ask as I've dismantled car gearboxes in the past and rebuilt them and they are a lot more complicated than the TMC 60 so I should be able to work this out myself. Just in case we need to take the box apart I've looked at several exploded diagrams and cannot for the life of me see how it goes into reverse. All there seems to be in there is an input shaft with a gear on it meshed with another gear on the output shaft via a clutch when in forward or else via another clutch which engages a different gear, also on the output shaft, when in reverse (or the other way round). The diagrams seem to show that the smaller gear is not meshed with anything though. I cannot see a layshaft or layshaft gear in the diagrams so how does the box make the output shaft reverse rotation? You need to insert an intermediate gear between the input shaft and output shaft to reverse the output rotation so there should be three gears in the box somewhere. ?
  10. @Tony Brooks The engine does not exhibit any particular vibration or misfire, none more than one would expect, in fact it runs quite smoothly. The engine is only eight years old and I know the boat has been stationary in a marina (with the broken manicooler removed) for at least the last two years. The boat was bought with the manicooler broken and removed from the engine so we had some idea what we were letting ourselves in for. But if the engine did have excessive vibration I would have thought a cracked manicooler would be the least of our problems. I did look at the Barrus website but found it less than helpful unless you knew exactly what you wanted. I also rang them as suggested and whilst they were quite polite and helpful, they said they couldn't do anything without a 'shire number', which was apparently supposed to be stamped on the rocker box cover. As I had no idea what a shire number was and certainly could not read any numbers that may have once upon a time been stamped on the engine I could proceed no further with them. I've purchased the smaller manicooler in my photo for my son simply because it is the only thing I had seen that was remotely like what was originally fitted, although since the purchase I see that those like in the photos uploaded by Scholar Gypsy would have been more suitable as they fit closer to the engine. In fact it was precisely seeking information such as Scholar Gypsy provided that led me to post my question here in the first place, although it was just a guess that canalworld would be frequented by people who knew about building and repairing engines used in boats, rather than just those who used boats for recreation. Thank you to everyone who has posted replies. I now know what it is and and what it is used for and since I have bought a replacement I guess my thread is over (at least until this one breaks). Regards
  11. I really don't want to get sidetracked from a helpful, technical discussion on marine engines into an emotive discussion on waste disposal. However I feel I must respond by saying 'who wants to go to a marina, park nose to tail with your neighbours, pay through the nose for everything they offer, then hook up to mains water, electricity and (pump out) sewers'? Might as well live in a terraced house. Composting toilets are very widely used and can be clean and environmentally friendly - if used properly ie not simply emptied into a 'normal' toilet or elsan point as that rather defeats the purpose. Dumping it in an elsan point uses a lot of water and effectively gives your sewage to someone else to deal with instead. I can see why marinas would object to having a large quantity of waste disposed of at once at such a point, especially if those doing so were irresponsible and made a mess. But apart from the plastic in a nappy, the solid contents of a compost toilet consist of practically the same chemicals, bacteria and other substances as a baby's nappy or adult's incontinence pads, except that being dry it does not smell and is easier to handle. I understand it falls under the same disposal regulations as such items as nappies (except, as you pointed out, those regulations made up by private land owners such as marina owners) although as it can be classed as dry sludge it is more suitable for direct land use, further composting or landfill via the normal waste collection systems. Personally I'd rather have dry poop in a sealed container (not under my bed) for a couple of months than 300 litres of mixed up urine and poop slurry sloshing around in a tank that I can't do anything with without going to a marina and paying someone to waste another 300 litres of fresh water to dispose of it down the severs. But each to their own. (BTW the comment about your engine bay was intended as a compliment.)
  12. Thanks for the pictures. That helps a lot. In the end I have contact the person who had the cooler in my original pic and arranged to buy that from them as I think it will fit. It still has stub pipes but the cooler itself is smaller, rather like the picture from Scholar Gypsy so will not create such a large bending moment on the welds. I don't have a very useful picture of the original, broken one from my son's boat but you can see it in the attached picture. It's the big black black box with the car radiator cap on the left of the rocker box cover. (I painted it black after the repair and added the strap down to the support that I fabricated) The depth is almost the same as the width, ie from the side it is almost square. I'd estimate when full it would hold about 6 litres of coolant, about 6Kg, plus about 5Kg for the cooler itself, plus some weight from the exhaust pipe, means the pipes are (were) supporting over 11 Kg of vibrating mass. The other photo shows the support frame that I fabricated before the repaired cooler was fitted, with legs down to the engine side of the engine mounts and also across to the flywheel cover. It's made from 5mm thick steel strapping with a thin layer of closed foam padding on top, apart from the top strap which is only 1.5 mm thick. However I've just driven down to my son's boat in London and all the flange welds have failed again and the cooler, complete with all four pipes can be pulled completely out of the flange bolted to the engine block. Good job I bought the other one as they seem hard to come by and very expensive. But if it doesn't quite fit it will be simpler to make a flange converter than a whole new cooler. But I think it will fit as the engine it comes from is the same make, bore and stroke as my son's, just a slightly smaller HP so I'm guessing it's the same engine block. @Alan de Enfield One day my son's engine bay will be as clean and pretty as yours ! Priority at the moment though is to get the engine working nicely, then get the solar panels working to charge the new Lithium batteries and strip out and remove a full size, ceramic, pump out toilet, its collection tank tank and two macerator pumps that have been sitting unused, full of sewage, for two years and then replace the whole lot with a compost system.
  13. @BEngo Yes there is a flexible, insulated, exhaust pipe bolted to the outlet pipe of the manifold, which then goes out of the side of the boat. From the bit I can see before the insulation starts it looks the same type as the one you got from Uxbridge Boat Centre. Although that 1.3 m of pipe is not supported so probably added to the weight and vibration on the exhaust manifiold, which is then transmitted to the welds on the flange. I guess ideally there should be short flexible pipes between the manifold flange and the water cooling part to prevent stress fractures, although I suppose having solid aluminium pipes would aid in the cooling of the bits of pipe between the flange and where the exhaust is being cooled by allowing heat to travel quickly towards the cooler parts. I'm certainly learning a lot about marine engineering. It's a whole new world!
  14. OK, thank you for the information, very useful. I'll contact E P Barrus to see what they can do. Thanks also for the info about blanking the manifold core pipes. That makes sense as nearly all of the images I looked at had such a core so I assumed they were not what I was looking for. Simply blanking those pipes would convert the manifold into something similar to what my son has. You are correct that when my son bought the boat a month ago the only way the large, heavy, manifold was supported was simply by the exhaust inlet pipes so it is not surprising that the aluminium pipes had suffered stress fractures and were broken. I could also see that they had been repaired more than once in the past due to similar fractures. I got the manifold repaired at a local agricultural engine repairers who were familiar with yanmar and did aluminum welding. Then I fabricated a steel support shelf for the manifold which attached both to the engine block sideways and to the engine mounts downwards (on the engine side of the flexible mount so it vibrated with the engine). However after moving the boat 21 miles my son says the pipes have broken yet again so its now time to look for an alternative. I'm even considering buying a TIG welder and making one myself!
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