thenortherner

All, Head ruled heart in the end and I cancelled the viewing yesterday evening. The reason being the maintenance costs. I know boating will always cost but with this particular boat I'd imagine I'd be having my pants pulled down a fair amount when it comes to structural work given its make up. And the other worry was, as pointed out above, it's only just meets the insurance requirements as it is meaning I'd be forced into more work sooner rather than later. Lastly, the stability issue mentioned worries me a bit especially in locks, as I'd be on my own on it. As a novice boater something that's rolling all over the place wouldn't be confidence inspiring. The search continues for something more conventional.

I spoke to Michael Clarke of Northern Star Marine earlier. He did the survey last September, just before it was put on the water and the pin holes were found... He's happy to survey the boat again but has advised nothing will likely change in terms of the outcome. He also said good things about the last welder to have worked on the boat, and that if the boat's been sat on the water since the pin hole leeks were sorted then they're sorted, else it'd have sunk by now. In terms of having it surveyed again, Michael advised if it's sat on chocks again then there'll still be areas he can't survey, but that'd be no different to any survey. I'll take a look at the readings on the last survey. He didn't mention any problems in terms of being able to get a reading.

I've managed to get an insurance quote which covers total loss for £170 with Euro Marine subject to an ultra sonic survey showing the plate is a minimum of 4mm.

Will keep the appointment. My intention was always to get a survey. Likely uninsurable otherwise. Speak of which I need to find somebody who'll insure it. And no, I don't see it as anything remotely close to being similar to a Sea Otter just because they're priced similarly, for all the reasons I'd given. No idea how you'd come to that conclusion. GRP would be the sensible choice but they don't appeal anywhere near as much as a narrow boat. Thank you. Makes more sense now. It'd likely be just me on board so hopefully the rocking won't be too much of a problem. Do wonder what it'd be like in a lock though, I'd have thought that's where it'd potentially be susceptible to a bit of rocking. The boat is 2 hours drive away so not the end of the world.

No base plate? I'm not following... Apologies I'm new to boating.. Sounds like my average hopeful maintenance spend of 2k a year is achievable then from the previous comments

I struggle with block bookings when it comes to taking leave from work. And I'm hoping to use it as a bolt hole at weekends even if I'm not planning to sail it anywhere.

To be honest I'm not wanting to pour money into something. It'll be for weekend use not heavy use. Sorted the mooring for under 1k and the licence is cheap enough due to size. Diesel and fuel aside I was hoping for an average of 2k a year for ongoing and unexpected maintenance. Given the boat basically has bugger all equipment or mod cons and a simple engine I hoped that'd be enough...

There's a 1998 Sea Otter at Venitian Marina with only 860 engine hours up for 24K before negotiation. So 10k difference.

Because aluminium won't require the same maintenance as steel. They're more expensive used than the equivalent steel boat but not ridiculously so especially when comparing the age of boats. If it's a stretch for me to spend 20k why would I look at 35k boats? The cheapest used Bentley I found is up for 26k so still out of reach unfortunately. Beetle not Bentley!

I think I've read enough and will cancel the viewing. I can't find many boats in decent mechanical and structural condition for 20K, especially with an interior which doesn't look to have an awful fit out. Just can't quite stretch to the cost of a 23ft Sea Otter which is what I was originally looking for but ended up going down other avenues due to budget. I'm starting to think that the higher initial outlay will be negated longer term with the comparatively lower running costs.

And successful with it too

In terms of it not selling at Braunston, the boat was priced at 24k whereas now it's 6k cheaper. It's a true heart vs head decision. Can't help but think I should play it safe and get a Midway or suchlike.

Hmm. Sounds like it's a potential headache and I might be better with something from at least this century! Shame, it looks fantastic.

Thanks Just for weekends away, often solo. It was originally iron but it's not clear if the plating or work done is iron or steel.

Thanks. Is the 6 year interval specific to older historic craft or something I'd have to do on say a 1990s boat?

For the sake of maybe £1K I'd like to make sure I'm not buying something with either hull or mechanical defects for peace of mind, as you say. If the boat needs thousands spending on it then it's not something I'd go ahead with. Given the simplicity of the engine - a 1 cylinder air cooled unit - and essentially no other equipment to speak of, hopefully it should be fine. All's good if the hull's good. I'd want the insurance to cover total loss for whatever reason. So long as sinking / fire / theft etc etc is covered then I'm happy.

I've started a few threads over the past few months over a potential first-time purchase and have received some really good feedback and help, so thanks again. I'd recently considered this: http://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/boat.phtml?id=560891 But with a refit cost of around £10K it wasn't something I wanted to progress with. Looks like someone else has put a deposit on it since. Today I found this in Apollo Duck: http://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/boat.phtml?id=566119 It looks fantastic and looks to be just what I'm after. From what I've managed to research on the boat so far it appears to have taken 3 years to restore (a hobby I'm guessing). I'd be grateful on some advice on the below points: Firstly, does anyone know the boat or anything about it? I do know that after it was put into the water 3 years after its restoration that it took on water. I've had an email chat with the owner over this and he's been very honest and replied with "the hull is totally overplated bow to stern wih 4 m m overlap like the wrought iron original style there is 6mm on the base curved plate. The swim on the stern is redesigned with cavitation platesThe boat was on its maiden launch when you saw it and had 3 pinholes which were under the bearers and unspotted when inspected on its buiding position .the holes were immediatly welded and again the hull had a air compression test all is satisfactory and it has been floating since nov with no water inside at all" I'm not engineer-minded so the above doesn't mean too much to me, so I'd be grateful on some feedback. The advert mentions it's originally an iron hull but has been over-plated. Presumably the over-plating is steel? I'm guessing steel would be preferrable given it should rust less than iron? Would I have trouble insuring / comparitively high insurance it given its age etc? The value is pretty low but I don't know if it's seen as a greater risk? Lastly, I've spoken to two surveyors over different boats in the past I've liked and they've refused to survey because they've been over-plated. I'm guessing it'll be the same with this. Am I right in thinking I'll eventually find a surveyor who'll do an inspection but perhaps there'll be an indemnity / no liability accepted if things go wrong? The owner appears to be Alan Baillie who's a sign writer and looks to have done some stunning work. He looks to have restored other historic boats too. I'm viewing it first thing on Saturday AM and looking forward to it.

I don't disagree, and did say earlier I recognise it's not an investment or something I'll see a return on. However it makes no sense to knowingly put money into something where the cost of the purchase plus refurb is worth less than the sum of its parts. You wouldn't choose to build a house at a cost of £100K knowing that its value once complete is £80K, so why do it with a boat needing a refit? It'd be better to spend the £80K on a house in the first place.

So £20-22K all in. I just don't believe it's money well spent in this case. Very much doubt I'd get anything close to a return on that.

It looks nice, and in all honesty it's what I'd prefer. I'm a tight northerner so the advertised price is just there to be haggled ? Ref. the survey, it's on hardstanding at the moment so should cut the cost down a little.

Thanks a lot for the replies. I had a nice response from Wayne. On balance, given the cost of a refurb and initial purchase it just doesn't stack up to go down this route. I'd likely end up with a boat worth much less than the total cost of the outlay. I appreciate boating isn't about return on investment, but sense says it's not the way to go. Instead, this looks like more sense, especially as it's been replated this year and looks to be in generally good condition: http://www.narrowboatsltd.co.uk/pre-owned/jack/

Think I'll stick with a narrowboat however small an iteration it might be

Anything useful to contribute other than your butterknife-sharp attempt at wit?

Feel a bit daft now! Yep, no engine! That said, I do quite like 'Mumble'. Both meet the list of requirements more or less, but I'd like the refit with something modern, new and clean. I think it's a cool looking thing! Something a bit different anyhow.

Hello, I'm looking for a boat between 20-28ft for short trips. As much as I'd like an Aintree Beetle 25ft I don't want the £35K outlay. Instead I'm hoping to find an older boat in need of a refit. Subject to the inspection showing the hull and engine are OK, I'm hoping I could get what I'm looking for a chunk less. I've found these two boats and wondered what a refit might cost for either of these two boats. I'm not wanting anything high end or flash. Perhaps: Modern veneer fit out A small panelled wetroom/shower with cassette toilet Simple cooker and hob and fridge Water heater and ideally a small multi fuel burner rather than blown hot air heating (which I presume would be more costly to fit). I'm clueless as to how much it might cost, how long it would take or even lead times on how long a wait it might be. So, any advice would be appreciated. With them being so small I'd probably have a go at painting it myself! Thanks, https://www.whiltonmarina.co.uk/used-narrowboats/details/4147.aspx http://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/boat.phtml?id=560891