Stephen Jeavons
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Posts posted by Stephen Jeavons
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Yes, I see that now. I was going into "My Activity" and searching on places I'd posted in. It still doesn't come up yet it is clearly still there! Something not right with the search engine perhaps? ?
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20 hours ago, Athy said:
It may be that "Victron" wasn't in its title, so you didn't recognise it.
No, you can search on stuff you've posted in regardless of content and it simply isn't there. Content has been removed
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Very weird as I contributed in that more recent chat about IT's, certainly within the last 4-5 weeks and when I search there is nothing since last September which 'aint true. I think a whole bunch of content has vanished from this forum ?
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19 hours ago, Nigel Allum said:
That silly Billy was me. Those Illuminated Rocket launcher toggle switches looked so good!!!!! But the heater one has to go!!!! CHEERS
You could still use a pretty (spring loaded) switch but have it operate a high current relay which switches the glow plugs
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3 minutes ago, Loddon said:
The feed into my transformer from the socket is about 5-600mm
Yep! About the same as mine. Socket is right next to the transformer in a cupboard in the back cabin
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On 13/01/2021 at 16:57, Loddon said:
That is not the reason
The reason the metal box is a problem is because it could compromise the grounding of the boat thus rendering the IT ineffective.
To be honest an IT should not even be on the boat but should be next to the supply on the bank as mine was for many years.
I bought an Airlink transformer, possibly the first one they supplied for use on a boat, one of these
https://airlinktransformers.com/product/enclosed-isolating-industrial-transformer-wm3602
This was before they developed the potted version which they did at my suggestion.
Mine was in a metal enclosure that sat next to the supply in the shed at my old mooring.
When I changed moorings 2 years ago some 13 years after it was installed I re-cased it in an HPDE box and it is now in a cupboard at the back of my boat fed by a double insulated cable enclosed in plastic conduit to try and prevent anything that may compromise the boats grounding. I much prefer a transformer off the boat and I even worry about cables feeding into the boat that if damaged could compromise the IT.
All fair points.
The "electrically unprotected" cable from the IT to the boat's consumer unit in my case is about 10ft but this is in a secure conduit so unlikely to suffer mechanical damage.
With a shore IT, the "electrically unprotected" cable is somewhat longer and more likely to be damaged being exposed to external elements/mechanical damage.
I guess on balance, in the extreme case of a transformer fire, it's better that it happens off the boat than on it
Is the placement of IT's (if fitted) enforced in the Regulations? Seems like it should be
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On 07/01/2021 at 16:43, Loddon said:
Simple answer is not easily.
I am not sure if the 7kva one is wired the same as the 3.6kva which is where the problem was noticed.
The problem with the wiring is that the earth for the casing and transformer core is taken to the boat earth and not to the incoming earth as it should be.
If the transformer fails for any reason and the core becomes live you could then have a live boat as the RCBO on the primary side may not trip.
If you change it you are then left with a metal box that is connected to shore earth and would need to be enclosed in an insulated box.
I will add that the chance of this happening is very low but was enough to make me buy elsewhere.
It's an old problem but I don't think Victron ever did anything about it.
The above statement is true however in this case the shore RCBO would certainly trip in the event of a fault to earth as it would unbalance the RCD part of the breaker. In this case the casing of the IT would be live for about 30-40mS.
Of course the state of shore electrics is a question mark for most marinas. I installed and tested all my own shore electrics and routinely test the RCBO so I feel confident it should trip with such a fault.
I'd still like to get an answer from Victron about whether the 7KW IT has the same fault and will be writing to them.
Incidentally, what product did you buy and how does it resolve this issue?
Stephen
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On 01/01/2021 at 15:22, Tony Brooks said:
Be aware that I think it it was Victron (others may confirm) who wired their incorrectly, but they probably sorted some time ago.
I have one of these 7KW Victron IT's on Consort. Wasn't aware of incorrect wiring. Can anyone tell me what it was and is there a mod for correcting it?
Ta
Stephen
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Tesco at Rickmansworth has also gained permanent boats despite the sign saying they're for shoppers only with no overnight stays. (One such boat is even encroached on the Winding Hole adjacent to the store). As it's not on the tow path, presumably CRT rules don't apply. I believe Tesco rent the land but the canal-side belongs to 3 Rivers District Council who don't seem to care. It's a shame as stopping off to get stuff for CC boaters has become quite difficult
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On 14/08/2020 at 17:28, TheBiscuits said:
1. What size cable is feeding them, and how far are they away from the batteries?
2. Do they have adequate ventilation above and below?
3. http://www.shoreline-marine.co.uk/admin/document_library/RRInstructions_BD35ONLY.v21_150618.pdf
Answers:
1) 10mm cables (both legs) for both appliances and each fed from its own 15A breaker. Machines <6m from batteries
2) Plenty of ventilation below to heat exchanger which is underneath and near the front. Machine's own fan blows in this direction not up the back (These are integrated units). Plenty of ventilation to the rear behind adjacent cupboards.
3) I have this manual. It is general and doesn't include any specific guidance or instruction for units with coils under the front. Specific installation for the integrated units is notably missing.
Had I known that an array of extra fans were needed to make up for the way it was designed, I would have included them.
I used to fit kitchens in a past life and have never known any integrated fridge or freezer to require special vents in worktops or additional fans. The design of these AMICA appliances is flawed
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I made the big mistake of buying (rebadged) Shoreline integrated fridge and integrated freezer when we refitted the kitchen 2 years ago. They have the heat exchanger under the front of the units so rising heat goes straight back into cabinet above. Brilliant Eastern European design (NOT!). Quality of the cabinets is decidedly poor and flimsy. Compressors run for long periods. Documentation is pathetic and no decent installation guidance. Never again! As soon as they die (I can't see them lasting another year) will replace with 240V items and vent them appropriately.
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23 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:
Our last one was 20 minutes from me opening the marina gate to let him in, to opening the marina gate to let him out.
He simply sat in the saloon and filled out the paperwork, saying "it passed last time so It'll pass it this time". (Different examiner)
No inspections, no asking if anything was new etc etc.
Beats working for a living doesn't it?
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We fitted a 3/4 bath with shower over when we re-fitted Consort. We're on a Res mooring with our own water supply. We love our bath and use it 90% of the time. I wouldn't be without one. The key is having plenty of hot water. We have a domestic style 3KW flow boiler which replenishes the Calorifier to full heat in just over an hour. Same system heats the boat's rads. When under way, engine heats the water in the usual way. Before we installed the flow boiler, with only the 1.25KW immersion, it would take 2-3 hours to re-heat the hot water.
We fill the water tank roughly once a week (not sure how big it is).
If you only have 16A mains available or are cruisers then probably best to stick with a shower
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1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:
That's not quiet as dire as the OP's but still is rather carp with that looped across feed to all the fuses. I have doubts about that cable size if this is to be fitted to a modern narrowboat with high electrical demands. Certainly no good for a 12V fridge. In my view at least it needs a decent bus bar and a chunky input terminal so you can do a decent job of fixing adequately sized cable to it. Still you see loads of this sort of thing at shows etc. but that does not make it right - cheap to make, yes, but not right.
I'm also struggling with the wiring here. I see no output points. There is a positive rail and a thin negative rail (presumably for the lamps) but where are the output tags? Maybe its just the photo not showing everything.
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On 03/05/2020 at 09:25, PeterF said:
If your water outlet is at the bottom then you can still fit a pressure sensor type of level gauge such as this one, there are other suppliers. You need to add a T piece into the section between the tank and the pump, unless you have a second unused connection. This will read an increasing depth of water as the tank fills, the only thing is that the volume of water will not be linear with depth as the shape of the tank changes, however that is probably not too much of an issue.
I fitted one of these. They're great. The digital gauge (left hand one in the link) has an LED back light so easy to see if fitted somewhere dark.
My problem is the lack of a fuel gauge. Looking to fit one of those at some point
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1 hour ago, Sir Nibble said:
I don't think it's better elsewhere, except in those countries that don't have the "benefit" of our "wonderful" NHS
Sometimes we forget how lucky we are to have the NHS. It's overstretched because the country has too many people generally and certainly too many old farts like us in it. Otherwise it's a fantastic service.
Poorer people in the States and elsewhere who cannot afford the treatment simply get none.
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Another trick to loosen an otherwise tight screw is to give it a jerk in the direction of TIGHTENING it. This often cracks the corrosion (or gunk) making it easier to loosen in the correct direction without damaging the head. However a nice new well-fitting screwdriver is a must.
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On 13/11/2019 at 11:04, bizzard said:
My big bag of Meccano.
I have a lock-up full of the stuff. Waiting to build my new Meccano-shed in the Spring ?
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15 hours ago, big d said:
The boat is old, no alternator on engine,
So, no hot water from engine because it's air cooled and NO ALTERNATOR.
The only way to keep 20 batteries charged is with your solar power when you're out and about. Might work in the Sahara, not sure about the UK.
I would say an alternator is required?
What about a solar water heater (like they stick on the roofs of houses), anyone tried that?
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5 hours ago, big d said:
I've currently got hot water from a cauliflower heated by a back boiler of a bubble, it is great in winter and with a mixer tap great shower, warm and the rads and underfloor keep me toasty. I'm trying to come up with a way of having warm showers in summer when I'm not running bubble 24/7. I've got shore power if I need and also a 3.5kw inverter and enough solar and storage of power. I was thinking could I use shore power and install domestic electric shower off cold feed or go for a 3kw water heater as seen on the bay that does similar job but I could use when not on mooring. Before all the calculators jump on. I have enough power when not on mooring to roast a dinner and I've enough to heat water up and if you beg to differ my boat is powered by scoffs and disbelief. Anyone done either thing, domestic unit or eBay 3kw heater ?
Cheers
I have recently installed an electric flow boiler. This uses a domestic style mid-position valve, cylinder-stat, room-stat and regular programmer (Danfoss). The flow boiler I'm using is a 6kW unit which I de-tuned to 3kW by disconnecting the second heating element (it has two 3kW elements). I have the hot water heated twice a day whilst the heating is on continuously with 3 radiators + towel rail. Once up to temperature, the boiler automatically cycles on and off to keep the heat flow constant. Works like a charm, basically fit and forget.
It is also possible to get a 4kW unit so presumably one could de-tune to say 2kW with that one too.
Once winter is over I can just turn the room-stat down and the system will continue to provide hot water.
Will post a photo of my install if you're interested.
Stephen
I would just add that I have a 32A shore supply. Also this system by-passes the inverter as it would kill the batteries if power died. If away from the home mooring then I use the diesel heater or the engine. Unless you used a 2kW heater as I suggested above, you would be pushing it with a 16A shore supply.
https://www.wolseley.co.uk/product/santon-electric-flow-boiler-6-kw/
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7 hours ago, Sea Dog said:
Exactly. You need to take precautions to interrupt the thermosyphon, as you have.
... and as I have done with my valve above. Different solution, same effect.
11 hours ago, jonathanA said:If you do a bit of googling on legionares disease I think you will find that 60 isn’t hot enough to be sure of killing the nasty bugs.
just saying....
True, but if you need to kill bugs in the hot water tank, chances are you're already drinking them from the cold tank. No house I've ever owned has had the hot water cylinder hotter than about 55-60C. The motive for having a scalding hot water tank in this context is mainly so the hot water will last till the next heating cycle. I don't have that problem as I'm on shore power 99% of the time. My flow boiler does it auto-magically.
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On 03/02/2020 at 08:52, Sea Dog said:
I'd be interested in the details of the valve Stephen.
I'm using one of these with power from the engine key-switch via a cylinder-stat. Temperature can be set as high as I want. You could wire without the cylinder-stat (although you'll probably need a relay to close the valve as it needs to be powered to either open or close).
Stops heat transfer back to the engine from the calorifier
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Hi,
Yes, I know off-grid boaters and continuous cruisers like to have stonking hot calorifier water. My boat spends most of its time at a Res mooring with only the occasional cruise so I haven't had the problem of limited hot water. Unfortunately, retrofitting a thermostatic valve is going to be tricky in my installation due to a lack of space in the airing cupboard so I'm going to have to make do unless the requirement becomes critical in the future. My calorifier cupboard already looks like a steam-punk sculpture as I have a 3-port valve on the other coil along with all its pipework. If I ever go for a long cruise anywhere, I may yet have to do the installation of a thermostatic mixer. Thanks for the hint.
Stephen
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On 30/01/2020 at 17:15, Detling said:
If you put the engine feed in at the top and return at the bottom when the water is hot it is possible there will be some convection driven flow through the engine block, just like a back boiler convection system. This will cause the water in the tank to cool faster than otherwise.
I fitted a 12V shut-off valve to stop this from happening. Opens when engine is started and closes when engine is turned off. It also closes if the calorifier gets too hot (have a domestic style cylinder-stat to limit temp to 60C)
Victron isolation transformer
in Boat Equipment
Posted
So? Did they come back with anything world shattering?