Bargebuilder
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Posts posted by Bargebuilder
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1 minute ago, IanD said:
For the canals, yes -- total demand is at least 1000x less than for cars. For cars, no.
There may be enough HVO for canal boats, but what about all other boats of which there are far more. And what about tractors and the host of other agricultural and site machinery that needs to be weaned off of diesel? I can't see HVO being reserved for the exclusive use of canal boats given its advantages.
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29 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:
I always pay my declared percentage and don't but from companies who try to impose it.
Last month I popped into a marina for RED diesel that last year was happy to sell it for heating and charge accordingly, only to be told that they only now sell white. They told me that the 'new regulations' had shifted the responsibility to them to make sure that the correct duty was being paid: they didn't want the hassle so just stopped selling red.
I have no idea if, or how the regulations have changed, but if this is a trend, it is going to adversely affect live-aboards and those who use generators to power electric motors.
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1 hour ago, IanD said:
HVO is the only realistic low carbon/emissions solution for boaters
Yes for steel boats, but also for cruising boats of all types and then there are the coastal cruisers and sailing boats that currently use RED. What about other diesel engined site and agricultural machinery?
HVO does seem to have huge advantages, but will there ever be enough of it?
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1 hour ago, PeterF said:
Aqueduct marina have some HVO in, they set up a small skidded tank complete with pump, meter and hose. Selling at road duty though, no domestic rebate. About £2.20. Not sure what red diesel was selling for. At the same time.
https://aqueductmarina.co.uk/hvo-now-available-from-aqueduct-marina/
When was "the same time"? If it was within the last month, that's not much different to full duty RED on the cut.
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But how much is HVO at the pumps?
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From where does one get this HVO and what is its price? The internet is being very secretive!
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27 minutes ago, MrsM said:
I've wondered why people don't automatically make sure all gates are closed behind them when leaving a lock. We followed a boat off the Severn at Worcester and locked up with them. I was quite surprised when they graciously said they would help close the gates behind us on exiting, for the boats following. I hadn't realised that some rivers, like the Avon, ask you to leave the exit gate(s) open. I now understand why some boaters think it is normal not to close all gates.
How many years ago did it become usual to close gates behind one upon exiting a lock?
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11 minutes ago, peterboat said:
True if my motor failed I could swop it out in half an hour, remove cooling, undo the power cables, remove 4 mounting bolts motor off! Change pulley and refit easy, it's not heavy so one man/woman job simples
That is indeed a huge advantage: do you think that electric motors, control systems and batteries are likely to last for the 40 years or more that a well maintained diesel engine could be reasonably be expected to achieve?
Not that it's relevant, if diesels should be banned.
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13 minutes ago, John Brightley said:
It's Wye Invader 2. They've just gone from Cardiff to Portishead. See their Facebook page here: https://m.facebook.com/2901493546558691/
Are you sure, it doesn't look like the NB on their website?
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This picture is from 2016 and I think it's Ilfracombe. The boat seems to be better suited to lumpy water than most.
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Back in 2016 a narrowboat visited Ilfracombe and Bude, and not entirely without incident! Perhaps they made a return visit.
We've done Sharpness to Portishead without a pilot, but I wouldn't venture as far a Bude.
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9 minutes ago, Lady C said:
There have been electric hire boats on the Mon & Brec for decades.
Indeed, but the Mon & Brec is almost unique amongst UK canals. Their boats only do 18 miles on a charge, which although suitable there, may be rather frustrating for hirers who want to navigate a ring.
Their website says:
"Our electric boats can cover up to eighteen miles on a single charge, so you don’t need to recharge the narrowboat every day. Even when you do want to top up the batteries it’s very simple – just pull up to one of our six charging points"
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3 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:
with a fully electric boat one would expect a prudent boater to start with fully charged batteries and planned a selection of stopping points in case conditions got worse and depleted the batteries more than is normal. If there were no such places then that boat is not fit for the journey.
Perhaps technology will improve the situation, but if electric boats are to populate the hire boat industry, they are going to have to be idiot proof.
Will folks who hire boats need to make extensive plans for their week aboard, taking into consideration the distance they want to cover, the speed at which they want or need travel, battery size, capacity and range, location of charge points etc.
Will they need to look after the batteries, charging systems etc or are they indestructible?
What if they are stranded with flat batteries.
Maybe there are simple solutions to the above.
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7 hours ago, David Mack said:
How do you know you cruise at 4mph? My measured speeds, both from GPS and measurements of time and distance travelled suggest we average about 2.75 mph on the canals, with peak speeds on wide straight bridgeless stretches around 3.3 - 3.5mph, and dropping down to less than 2mph passing through bridges. Increasing the engine revs just results in more wash and noise (and presumably fuel consumption), but makes no difference to speed - in fact on shallower sections it actually slows us down.
I know we do 4mph because we have both an app on our phone and a marine handheld GPS that we keep in front of us and 'on' at all times whilst we cruise. We do this to log distance travelled and to ensure that we travel at, but don't exceed the speed limit.
Do you have the power figures for electric travel for traveling at the speed limit? Of course, we do slow down when passing moored boats.
Thanks in advance.
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8 hours ago, IanD said:
Power consumption while cruising (decent normal speed, no breaking wash) is typically about 3kW, dropping to about 1kW when passing moored boats and 0kW when stationary
3Kw is often quoted, but generally qualified as for a speed of 3mph, above that being much more greedy of power. If you have the figures, could I trouble you to re-jig your calculations for 4mph, as that is the speed limit and it is what we cruise at unless passing moored boats, which isn't a huge percentage of the time?
I wouldn't want to change the way we cruise to suit my boat, I'd rather have an engine that does what I require of it. I wouldn't drive at 55 on a motorway, even though I might enjoy driving and be in no hurry to get anywhere!
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2 minutes ago, peterboat said:
I don't know how I have managed for the last 3 or four years cruising? Clearly my electric boat doesn't work and it's all been a dream?
Luckily the sun shines my batteries charge up and boating goes on. In a emergency I can always fire up the genny on HVO just a fraction of what I used to use with my old or modern diesel
What you have works for your pattern of use, but not everyone uses their NB in the way you do.
I do no cruising for 10 months, then live aboard for two months, cruising long days almost every day and covering long distances.
On a short NB, PV on the roof would nowhere near supply sufficient to satisfy an electric motor, as I like to cruise at 4mph where it is possible, which in rural places is most of the time.
For people like me who like long days and to travel relatively long distances during their holiday, we would be running a generator most of the time.
To exchange a reliable, respectably quiet diesel engine for an expensive electric set-up that suits cruising slower than suits me and for fewer hours each day would make no sense at all.
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My, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't work problem, was cured by taking the trigger wire to a relay and using the relay to take power from the battery to the starter motor. The feed from the switch, although not sufficient to activate the starter motor, was easily enough to activate the relay. No hint of reluctance to start for the last 5 years after the modification.
Much cheaper than a new switch!
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48 minutes ago, David Mack said:
Which is fine if your electric boat has enough battery capacity for two days boating, then you can spend every other night at a non-chargepoint location.
When that happens I'll go back to coastal sailing which is much 'greener' than even the greenest NB, unless it has no IC engine at all.
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1 hour ago, Paul C said:
What's your plan, once the diesel is gone?
I shall look down from above and be eternally grateful that I lived in the age of cheap foreign holidays, cheap and plentiful fuel for motoring and boating and inexpensive energy for heating.
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I had a Vetus switch that kicked the starter motor into action on about every 6th try, the other 5 I just got a click, but it wasn't a switch problem at all. Are you sure it's the switch?
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1 minute ago, LadyG said:
Well he won't be doing it to a high standard, the point is he is now faced with selling it pdq, seems to me he's overpaid, and is in a dilemma, as previously discussed. It's a pity, but best to try to find someone to take it now let some other optimist take it on.
I'm afraid that boat yards are littered with unfinished projects started with the best of intentions and initially lots of enthusiasm.
It's costs little to advertise on the internet, so apart from time, he has little to lose by starting with a highish asking price and dropping if necessary.
I really hope he gets a good price and claws back most of the money he's spent.
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9 minutes ago, IanD said:
That's all a bit idealistic since capacity where it's not needed is useless -- the problem is to get it to where it *is* needed.
One of the great joys of boating, is to moor overnight in places which will never be equipped with charging points.
Places where charging points will be concentrated are likely to be the very places which I and many others avoid at all costs.
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31 minutes ago, Bod said:
It's the cost of tools that will surprise the most. Closely followed by cost of screws, glue, etc. and just how many will be needed, fitting out with oak, will need brass screws at 2/3 times the price of steel screws.
Low or poor quality tools will break or wear out quickly and need replacing, abusing tools is a good way to spend money.
Worst part is, a lot of these tools, once the boat is finished, the tools are redundant.
Bod.
I did a high quality fit-out on a wide beam, with oak cabinetry and granite worktops etc and didn't spend that much on tools, but I only bought budget range products which were perfectly adequate for short term use.
Like you though, I couldn't believe how much things like fixings, catches, hinges, handles, glues, electric cable, fuses, terminals, pipe, pipe fittings, taps, paints etc, etc etc. would cost. It's tempting, before you start, to price up water and room heaters, toilets, battery banks, all the big stuff, but the bits and pieces dwarf the cost of these.
I spent 30k on equipment and fixings, but that was 15 years ago, so perhaps MtBs estimate of £25k to fit out a smallish NB at today's prices isn't that far off the mark if it's done to a high standard.
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20 minutes ago, IanD said:
(the license fee is pretty small compared to other fees in life to get a place to live), and if costs for diesel and gas continue to rise. Not saying this is a good thing, it might well drive some people off the canals
I'm not sure that the price of diesel alone would encourage many to invest large sums in electric propulsion, even if it were £10 a litre. Even at this level, fuel costs for many people would still be a very small proportion of the total cost of ownership of a NB.
Even with diesel costing £10 a litre, versus a full solar electric installation providing free cruising, for people cruising for a few weeks in the summer, the pay back time would be a long one for the electric setup, lengthened further by the opportunity cost of the money invested.
I accept that many convert for other reasons such as for silent cruising.
If diesel were unavailable, that would be an incentive to convert, but then all those silent generators would go truly silent and electric boats would be traveling very short distances during cloudy times.
Dutch barge style narrowboats
in Boat Building & Maintenance
Posted
Although most genuine Dutch Barges were largely flat bottomed of course!