captain flint
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Posts posted by captain flint
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I quite like the idea of getting into smuggling people into and out of London. More than I like parties anyway.
I *had* wondered about inviting family and friends on a 50th birthday there and back cruise. Cos, you know, it's finite. There would come a well-demarcated home time. And no, there wouldn't be 25.
But although I think it's precious unlikely that there would be any problem, the potential for issues might be the excuse I need to celebrate the passing of another year in my more customary style: by doing nothing.
2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:The RCD / RCR requires the maximum weight (then stated in the number of people) that can be loaded onto one side of the boat and the boat not tilting sufficiently for the water to not flood into the boat (Down flooding angle)
These are actual tests done with weights (stability tests) not theoretical calculatio
Ask a silly question, get an erudite answer. I really do like this forum.
That's really interesting and I had no idea. I thought it was the max number of people allowed on board, and I had always scratched my head about that a bit. Ta!
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I've read some of the threads on this subject. I get some of the regulatory/responsibility issues:
- there's a max passenger number in my RCD paperwork (8, if memory serves, in the case of my boat)
- that if there was an incident with passengers exceeding that number on board the insurance might well not pay out.
- I also have read that the maximum number without holding certain RYA(?) papers is twelve
I understand that trying to work out what could work in terms of pure payload beyond that is pure guesswork and therefore might sensibly be avoided.
But I am curious, anyway. I'm not saying I won't be sensible in terms of what I actually do, but I feel it's ok to daydream un-sensibly.
My boat measures 50'x10' boat. It weighs about 23 tonnes. It's very well ballasted (sometimes I think too much for my taste, it really hardly rocks at all). And the drainage etc holes are all a good 15+cm from the water.
How many people does anyone guess I could practically carry before encountering any issues? I'm not saying I'll actually do it. But I would have thought I could carry 25+ before anything untoward was likely to happen, practically speaking. That number is plucked out of the air, but my water tank holds on excess of 1000l, so if that was running very low, that alone would be quite a lot of extra displacement, er, headroom...
What do people think? I'm honestly not saying I'll do it, just curious to imagine.
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I've worked out what the plan should be.
Get double glazing, and use my nifty (?) patented secondary glazing solution to fit insect screens instead of secondary glazing so I can leave all the windows open on hot nights.
Bingpot!
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That all makes sense thanks.
One thing I'm giving serious thought to is night time temperatures.
I definitely think that in the evening/at night double glazing will help the boat retain more heat, and that during the hottest parts of summer that is not a good thing.
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That all makes sense thanks.
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Looking online it seems that in houses DG is assumed to keep things cooler in the summer, as the argon filled cavity stops the inside surface of the window getting so hot. Which makes sense.
But on a boat I am guessing the question is whether the inside air temperature exceeds the outside air temperature, what with metal getting hot in sunlight and all.
If the air temp inside the boat is greater than outside then I'm guessing DG would help retain that extra heat better than single glazing. But maybe what with the glass itself being warm that benefit of single glazing would be minimal.
1 hour ago, mrsmelly said:My last boat had double glazed windows throughout. They cost a fortune but we're of a design that meant every or any window could be removed in seconds. On mega hot days they could be removed and air flow in the boat which was awesome. Another great benefit was being able to pass stuff out for the Barby every few feet of boat length rather than just through side hatches.
Do you miss it?
Do you have any view of whether it got hotter in summer than single glazing when you hadn't opened everything up?
I know I can have everything open, but especially in the evening that can mean bugs/mozzies. Obviously screens can be a solution to that. But when the outside temperature drops after sunset I don't really want to retain the inside temperature afterwards.
Oh hang on. There's an old gent upstairs from my mum who used to work for NASA on thermal engineering, and also had a boat. Really.
I think perhaps I should be asking him!!
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I'm replacing the windows in my boat. They're getting towards the end of their serviceable life.
Currently I have single glazed, plus secondary glazing, fixed with a magnetic strip, which I remove in the summer. It works wonders in the winter, keeping the boat very noticeably warmer.
But when I've left the secondary glazing in place in the summer the boat gets unbelievably hot (haven't made that obvious mistake in a few years!). Removing it really makes a huge difference.
I'm wondering if thermal break double glazed windows make the boat rather hot in the summer? Obviously there's a big difference between these and secondary glazing - inert gas in double glazing, versus a thick chunk of air heating up with secondary glazing.
Anyone have any experience of this?
(There are other factors to consider, too, cost obviously. Also aesthetics: the double glazing would have to be* black framed which I think looks smart but naff, whereas the single glazed could be anodised bright gold colour which I much prefer. Internally I have a nifty solution for making the secondary glazing look much better than it currently does, but I'll leave it at that for now as really I'm here to ask about how double glazing performs in summer)
*long story. But I don't really like the powder coated 'gold' anyway, just looks like dirty yellow to me
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2 hours ago, magnetman said:
Looking at it with google lens this one turns up
Thanks! Didn't think of doing a reverse image search, good plan.
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3 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:
It doesn't matter what colour it was painted, it'd still look rubbish (well just like a rubbish barge with a lid on)
Awful !
Oddly enough, looking for any white ended boats on apollo duck, that same boat is the first result on my screen
Edited: probably not that odd now I come to think of it, google search results fairly likely to show boats for sale
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Heh.
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7 minutes ago, Momac said:
Thanks for posting. Kind of like that, but I think of that more as being white with grey panels along the side.
I've found one photo that illustrates what I'm talking about, but unfortunately it somewhat undermines my argument as it looks (to my eyes) pretty rubbish
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Just wondering if anyone has any photos of narrow boats (or wide beams) that have a white roof and white front and back to the cabin (ie where the doors - usually - are), but darker coloured cabin sides, decks and gunwales.
I've seen a few but haven't taken photos of them, and haven't found any so far looking through Google image searches.
Obviously this is hardly very important, just that I was having a conversation with a friend who said they didn't think it looks 'right', whereas I think it looks rather good, and I wanted to show them what I'm talking about.
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1 hour ago, Paul C said:
The bit where it says something about depending on the durability required seems a little vague!
Both boat yards I mentioned - who do very good 2 pack applications - insist that you just don't get a satisfactory key without shot blasting. But that doesn't mean they're right, and of course there are many products out there - even if they're right, they can only speak for those products they've used.
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I've read a few comments in various threads that refer to 2 pack being applied without shot blasting. Pretty sure some have even suggested it can be done without going back to bare metal.
Two good outfits I know who do it swear that's wrong, and that it really needs shot blasting to adhere properly. They both talk disapprovingly of those who use it without that level of prep, and how often they have seen and had to deal with problems resulting.
You might think, "Well they would say that," - after all they both offer shot blasting and 2 pack application! But I've seen examples of it flaking off when the person who did it swears they got right back to bare metal. And I'm not just talking below the waterline (although I do also know someone who bought a brand new boat by a pretty well known maker whose boats go by his name, where the 2 pack epoxy below the waterline started flaking off within a year).
I don't have any 2 pack plans right now, I'm only stirring, sorry, I mean asking, as I think it will be interesting to hear what people's views are and how they back them up, and what their experiences have been.
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On 24/02/2024 at 16:23, Tony Brooks said:
I second that, providing it is quality OSB3 or better. No voids that I have ever seen, lots in much modern so-called marine ply, and no areas where the adhesive between plies is missing.
Thanks Tony and Tracy, nice hear, though I'm slightly scratching my head simply because it's so hydroscipic, I can't help but feel if the same situation I had faced had occurred on decent ply it would have been far easier to sort out? But that's very interesting re rot mycelium not looking the resin. I must say that, structurally, the OSB seems perfectly sound despite everything.
When it comes to the mould, I've messaged to stick an endoscope camera down there. Tricky business, but I could just about see that while there are plenty of spots of black mould, they're very small, and it's localised. I figure it's not that advanced, it's under the floor, and hopefully will eventually dry out. Currently quite well ventilated but harder to keep it that way once the floorboards that are laid on top of the osb are replaced. Then again it was a bone dry bilge once so with a bit of luck it can be again.
I'm going to keep the floorboards up for another 10 weeks or so and see how dry it is by then. It's quite disruptive though. At some point they will go back and I will just have to monitor things for musty smells etc. If absolutely necessary, they can always be taken up again and a more drastic solution sought at that point.
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It's wooden floorboards laid on top of the actual board. So yes, decorative, basically. Not very permeable. I'm going to leave them off for it to dry out, then put them down when dry.
The top side of the actual board is pretty wet but it's evidently still damp underneath.
I already treated the mould on the top, which was not extensive anyway.
Do you have any suggestions for treating any mould underneath the floor?? Can't think how one would do that*
*(without removing the board, at which point I think I would just go ahead and replace it with ply as per your helpful suggestion. I'm currently thinking I won't do that now, and see how it goes. That can always been done later if it's really necessary, but the board looks and sounds structurally sound so right now that would feel a bit premature and pessimistic. Fingers crossed).
Thanks again
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20 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:
Cutting a section out is perfectly feasible as long as you can secure something to support the edges of the cut-out section all round to make an access trap, probably very similar, but larger, than what you have at the back of the cabin.
The bit you cut out will be scrap, so you can probe this by drilling a hole to establish the thickness of the material. Once you know that you can use a circular saw to a mm less and use that to cut around the rotten section, Then a Worx type vibrating saw/multi-tool to deal with the 1 mm. I think you can get a small plunge circular saws specifically designed for this type of job.
Thanks again for your suggestions
I think I know what you mean by access trap - a section you can lift to access/inspect the bilge, right? To be honest the one at the back end of the cabin is just a section of substrate cut out, and not really secured at all, you just kind of pop it in and out as best you can(!)
I'm guessing by securing something to support the edges you mean something above the substrate (and below the floorboards on top of it)? Doable, I suppose, but tricky in that it would mean reducing the thickness of the floorboards to accommodate the fixing, I think?
One of the things I'm wondering about is how bad it would be just to do nothing except put the floor back and give it time. Would that be asking for trouble?!
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1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:
Unless this is just a shell with floor, it could turn out to be a much larger job than you think, because narrowboats tend to have all the bulkheads and partitions sat on the floor and often fixed to it.
Unless you can see signs of screws securing the floor, I fear stud detectors are the only sensible way for a DIY, and even then I have had very mixed results.
If the OSB is one of the damp proof ones, you may be best advised to leave it as it is and treat any mould. It could be more wet resistant than much so-called marine
Thanks for your thoughts. It's actually a professional fit out, despite the materials used. Including rather hydroscopic OSB board, sadly, not water resistant at all.
Pretty sure the bulkheads are attached to the floor but the area in question has no bulkheads, and I was wondering about chopping out the damp section, as opposed to replacing the entire substrate, which would, I'm imagine, involve taking out everything except the lining on the sides and ceiling, ie, bathroom, bulkheads, stove, galley - if it came to all that, I think I would be better off just selling the boat. It's in pretty decent nick. Or it was until this damp issue arose.
But I'm not sure if chopping out just a section is really feasible, it might be that getting it dry is the only option.
In terms of treating the mould, I assume you mean just the mould on the top side of the substrate, and basically ignoring the mould underneath, in the bilge?
I do get that I don't live and breathe in the bilge, but I do worry that too get it dry it needs to be well ventilated, which basically, in effect, means getting air from the bilge into the cabin, so any mould down there might as well be in the cabin.
Plus we've all seen a boat that looks OK but has that must smell of mould coming from somewhere unseen. It's not a good thing. If there's any way to avoid that I'd like to.
It's a head scratcher
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So... I've hit a problem. I'll go into it below for anyone who wants to read about it/just to get it off my chest - but my main question is, is there any device that could help me work out where the steel struts/ribs in the bilge are? The ones the substrate* is fixed to. I'm wondering if getting the floor taken up and replacing the damp OSB board substrate with marine ply is something that can be assessed for do-ability before cutting into it, or if you can only really tell after you've chopped into it. I aware of stud/wiring/etc detectors, and am wondering if something like that could help here
*not sure "substrate" is the right word here but anyway. I think you will know what I mean.
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That's the short(ish) question.no need to read on, really. But if you want the long story, here you go:
We got the damp OSB under the floorboards dry. Took a few weeks, setting up fans and blowing air here and there and all that. Moisture meter readings finally got below 20%.
We'd had to empty the main water tank at the start of the whole thing, as the tap between it and the pump didn't work and needed replacing (as did the pump itself).
Then the very nice fella at the boat yard, was getting our ducks in a row for fitting the new pump. It was in a slightly different position compared to before, as there was no filter before. So he needed to check that the pipes all lined up. Which involved removing the end cap that we'd put on the pipe that attached to the pump outlet.
There were indeed some adjustments needed, so he decided that the new tap and pump were going in the next day.
He forgot to put the end cap back on that night, though, before he left. He was thinking that since the main water tank was empty, there was no water in the system to worry about. This annoys me a lot. He has apogised. Which doesn't really help but blame doesn't fix things so we'll leave that aside.
So... There was still a bit of water in the calorifier. And I didn't notice he'd neglected to replace the end cap.
When I turned on the diesel heating system on that night, the increased pressure from the now heated calorifier meant an amount (?) of water burped out of the pipe. Onto the dry substrate we'd been so painstakingly drying out.
In fact, it went right down a hole I had put in the substrate, to increase air flow for drying out the bilge. I had placed a little 12v fan there, but by this stage that had been removed it by then. So there was just a hole, perfectly placed near the end of the pups. So the water really got into the substrate better than ever before, following the tilt of the boat toward the stern, flowing along the underside of the substrate.
Admittedly it's a smaller area of damp than the patch that had built up slowly over time from a weeping pump. But now the moisture readings are higher than they were when I came into the yard with this problem in the first place. Over 50% in some places if you dig deep in with the prongs. Though I've got the topsurface fairly dry, barely above 20%. Used a heat gun.
It's very annoying.
A part of me thinks just wait for it to dry (as I said. I've got the visible substrate quite dry using a heat gun, but my moisture meter readings for deeper into it are still above 50% in some places. That's what you get, I guess, when instead of a very very slow leak, coming from above, you have a short, sharp leak, coming from below).
Problem with just leaving it to dry over time is that I don't really know how well ventilated it is. Maybe there's a gap at the edge, near the hull, as some lane said it's pretty common practice. Maybe they're isn't.
I could increase ventilation, I guess, with some more holes, though I don't really love the thought of blowing all those mould spores into the cabin (I had vented the extractor out of the boat when using the hole I've already got, not really possible to rig up once everything is back in place for various reasons)
Hence me wondering about the feasibility of the fairly drastic measure of taking up a few more floorboards, cutting out the OSB that's damp (and is a liability, especially in the area near the tank and pump), and replacing with marine ply.
I know it would be disruptive and time consuming but if it's doable I might be interested. Finding out where those steel struts/ribs in the bilge/hull would be a good start to working out of it can realistically be done.
I would say answers on a postcard please, but that wouldn't be fair after writing this bleeding essay. If you've read this far, then thank you. Let's face it, those who haven't are probably wise!
DISCLAIMER: My description of the latest leak is of course supposition, based on circumstancial evidence: missing end cap, position of hole, shape of damp patch, angle of boat, moisture meter readings. Seems the most likely explanation to me and the fella doing the work, but I appreciate that we can't be absolutely certain we know what happened. No sign of any further leak since, though. And yes, the end cap is back on.
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3 hours ago, Shropshire Landlubber said:
we can only chose from 6'10" beam boats. Clearly that narrows our choice (excuse the pun) and excludes loads of good options such as Broads cruisers.
That it does. But it sounds like a good plan, hope you find something that suits!
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On 23/01/2024 at 18:38, Shropshire Landlubber said:
Any thoughts will be greatly appreciated
I've only really skimmed this thread and there are loads of folks on here who know a lot more than I. But in terms of getting on and off easily, and lying reasonably low in the water, if it's within your budget might a GRP broads cruiser be worth considering? Something like the one in the photo attached. There are pretty sturdy ex hire boats on the market fairly regularly, and they have good space inside, and good visibility when driving (inside, using a wheel).
On 23/01/2024 at 18:38, Shropshire Landlubber said:On 23/01/2024 at 18:38, Shropshire Landlubber said:On 23/01/2024 at 18:38, Shropshire Landlubber said:Jeepers, not sure what I managed to do when posting this. I haven't even been drinking!
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6 hours ago, robtheplod said:
DIY painting is fun and relaxing.
I quite like painting. Sort of. Sometimes. I like it better with company. But that's rare. Boohoo.
And sometimes it's just a pain in the ass.
More importantly is so often just something I mean to do but don't get round to. Though I'm not too bad with keeping up the varnish on my wooden bits.
But I like your attitude and aim to be at least a bit more like that in future. I'll have to be, really, after forking out the dosh - I won't have loads left plus I'll feel I obliged to look after my expensive new paint job.
The way I'm looking at it is taking the whole thing on diy would just be too daunting, but once it's done, I'll try to stay on top of touching it up and keeping it looking reasonably tidy. That feels less doable.
And one day, if a bigger repaint is needed, maybe I'll feel more like it, having got a bit more under my belt. Maybe.
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25 minutes ago, LadyG said:
I painted my own boat when I had an opportunity of hiring a floating shed with power for two weeks. I had a lad sand the roof, he wasn't experienced and not supervised, fortunately the roof was in good condition, only a few rust patches, mostly removing layers of old paint. I then used rust treatment, then red oxide, puting my own paint on, plenty of layers, and it has been fine. There was no evidence of this roof rusting before it was sanded.
I prepped the rest myself, essentiaĺly removing topcoat. I worked six hours per day for ten days over the fortnight.
I did not use two pack or vinyl decals.
Any use of tape to create topcoat detail will add another day.
A sign writer turned up, and charged about £80 for name and reg number on both sides.
A rusting boat is a different cup of tea, needs taking down to bare steel, rust treatment, then all the layers needed to prep to topcoat.
I used SML Paints technical advice, the gunwales are satin alkyd, with anti skid granules on horizontal surfaces.
I think the cost of materials was about £800. Quite a bit of paint left over.
I had a quote for £4K around the same time (three years ago), that would be a basic paint job, no windows, time required two weeks.
I don't believe the job could be done in a week by one person if there was any rust or flaking, as one needs to allow for interim sanding, paint curing.
Taking the boat back to bare steel, it's a big job, and takes time.
If it's a job for the professional, the owner would be well advised to have a detailed spec, in writing, and lightly supervise the work!
Thanks. The painter in question says for weeks, is drawing up a detailed spec for me, and actively encourages regular visits while the work is going on, so it feels like it's all going the right way.
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1 hour ago, Hudds Lad said:
When we still had the shareboat the roof was repainted due to having a large rust patch forward of the rear hatch, round the mushroom vents and chimney, and on the leading cabin edge above the welldeck. I was not privy to the fine details of the job, but i imagine it was just rubbed down flat and then painted and was done at the cheapest/quickest quote from the Marina. Afterwards the roof looked great.
Within a year shadows of the former rust patches could be seen through the paint, corrosion was starting to show again by some of the mushrooms, and the lightest scratch would reveal undercoat. Cost £2.5k and took a week back in 2019.
Our own boat is booked in with a proper boat painter (booking made two years ago) to go at the end of next month for above the water repaint, it will be shotblasted back to clean metal with everything removed, then properly painted. This will take 6-8 weeks. Quote was £12-13k when booked, but i'm sure this will have increased, at the time they guesstimated 5% more but who knows now with the way things have been going up. Having seen the results of a quick turnaround paint job at a Marina we are loathe to repeat that mistake.
Thanks! This was the kind of info I was after, and pretty much what I expected to hear
Maximum passengers on a 50x10 foot boat
in General Boating
Posted
Ah right, thanks. Hadn't read those other threads with due care and attention...