rovingrom
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Posts posted by rovingrom
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24 minutes ago, dmr said:
The TravelPower pulley is about the same diameter as the crank pulley that drives the alternators, about 300mm diameter. You should be able to rotate the engine by hand with this (ignition OFF), not quite as easy on the fingers as the TP, but still ok. It gets really hard coming up to compression so stop for a minute or so for the compression to leak away and then rotate a bit more.
Very sad about not having a lovely TravelPower.
.....................Dave
Even though the previous owner removed the Travel Power, he left the drive pulley on the crankshaft. Paul Redshaw of Braunston removed it for me as it wasn't running true, but I still have the pulley on the boat as ballast!. It's around 45 cm diameter - quite a bit bigger than the alternator drive pulley, with open spokes, and is grooved around its circumference for a wide grooved belt. I thought it was a poor attempt at a replica flywheel but Paul said it was the Travel Power pulley. Trouble is the keyway key has gone so I can't easily refit the pulley to help rotate the crank to TDC. However your advice on the technique is helpful - thanks!
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11 minutes ago, dmr said:
Cant find a mention of an ADBV on the Mann filter. Have you got a spare one there? If so have a look. Look into the smaller holes round the edge, not the big one in the middle, An ADBV is a bit of rubber over the inside of the holes, if you can see right thru' then it ain't got one.
................Dave
Thanks Dave, that's most helpful - I now know what I'm looking for! I was about to order some MANN W936/4 filters on eBay as I fitted my last Fleetguard LF678 around 100 hours ago and will need to do another oil change soon. In April 2019 @Markinaboat wrote in this thread: "The plot thickens. I just spoke to Mann + Hummel. It transpires that the 936/4 is anti drain as ALL Mann filters are. The 936/2 is an oem difference with the interior media". Perhaps I need to order several different compatible filters to see which have the rubber insert.......
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On 19/04/2021 at 22:41, Rose Narrowboats said:
Saisons was around long before they appeared at Whilton. They ran a couple out of the arm at Hillmorton around 92/93 when I worked there and I think it was just Mr Saillet then - I don't remember anyone else not maintaining them. He also had a post office at (I think) East Haddon.
Saisons did have a converted ex-working boat in the fleet at one point (late 90s?) called Blue Nun. It was the back of a little woolwich butty going forwards with the conversion (motor back end, back cabin, engine room "under cloth" style steel cabin done by Keith Ball. It had a 2-pot Ruston in I think, but I can't for life of me remember the original name of the butty at the moment.
Back to Brumtugs, the one that always seems to get overlooked is our trusty little dayboat Rosette.
Rosette was originally fitted with a Lister LPWS2 and conventional shaft arrangement, as was Asti I believe. It certainly had that layout about a decade ago when it broke down round here.
Andy Rothen also has one converted to a work boat, but I don't which one it was originally.
Do you have a photo of ROSETTE we could see please? I'm the founder of the Facebook "BrumTug" group and am compiling a register and fleet list of the original Brum Tugs. I still have a few to find and locate, and your ROSETTE is a new one to me. If no photo, I'll have to pay you a visit (I'm not far away).
I was talking to Andy Rothen late last year on this subject and specifically asked if he knew of any Brum Tugs, which he said he did not. One of those we are still trying to find was a 33ft 6in tug originally called MYOPIA and later re-named PEACE that became a workboat on the BCN, had a crane or Hyab fitted, and was apparently sunk accidentally on the BCN on several occasions. Its original owner is very keen to find out more and I wonder whether this is the one that Andy Rothen had/has, perhaps without realising its origins?!Edit: I should have added that Brum tug No.6, originally MYOPIA and later renamed PEACE, was last seen on the BCN extended to 50ft and named IVY WILLS. According to CanalPlanAC it is/was still carrying its original BWB/CRT licence number 76086.
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Hope you fellow JD3-ers will forgive me re-visiting this thread, but I've re-read all 4 pages above and I'm still confused about which lubricating oil filters I should be using?
The suggestion is that I should be buying filters with the anti-drainback valve, however several comments above suggest that this requirement is removed by Beta's marinisation of the JD 3029 engine. So which is it - anti-drainback needed or not? Someone said that all MANN filters have the anti-drainback valve, so the MANN W936/4 should be suitable? Someone else said that MANN W936/2 is an "OEM variant with interior media" but I have no idea what that means!?
I'm currently using a Fleetguard LF678 filter - is this fitted with the anti-drainback valve or not? Can the valve be seen visually by looking onto the filter before fitting? If so, what exactly am I looking for?
I bought the boat when the JD3 had a mere 184 hours showing. It now has 850 and I need to adjust the tappets. The large diameter Travel Power drive pulley has been removed as the previous owner disconnected and removed the Travel Power unit (within the first 184 running hours!). How do I turn over the engine to get it to TDC? It starts on the first key with no cranking, so if I disconnect the start battery negative to stop it bursting into life, I clearly can't rotate it to TDC using the starter motor! Is there a trick I am missing??
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1 hour ago, David Mack said:
Richard Saillet featured in a number of threads on the forum a few years ago, culminating in this one:
David, thanks for the heads-up, I wasn't aware of any of that. It doesn't really affect our potted history of Brum Tug ASTI but it's useful to be aware of.
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6 minutes ago, Athy said:
I remember an 'Asti' which operated as a day-hire boat from the chandlery at Whilton Marina, probably about 1999. Would that be the same boat?
Yes Athy,
Brum Tug BEAVER (the first of two Brum Tug Beavers!) served in the Brummagem hire fleet from new (1984/5) until around 1989 when it was sold to Saisons (owned by Chris Gosling and Richard Saillet) based at Whilton Locks, who used it as a day boat in their small but eclectic fleet. As far as we know it was renamed TROS YR AFON around 2012 and went to the River Wey where we assume it remains, although we've had no reports in the last 9 years.....
The photos below are courtesy http://nbrumpus.cut-net.co.uk/ and Mike Stevens.
There are 2 YouTube videos of ASTI at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gpg4ZMUxBPM and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSZ_W9neMTM&t=46s
Colin
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On 03/04/2021 at 20:36, Martin Etheridge said:
Hi all,
I’ve just signed up to canal world.
I noticed a post back last year asking about locating Brumtug Ibis.
I’m pleased to say we bought her in August and she now lives on the River Wey near Guildford
Regards
Martin
Hi Martin,
I've only just seen your post from 03 April - welcome to Canal World and the wonderful world of Brum Tugs! It's really helpful to know you are the new owner of IBIS and to know she's on the River Wey. There should be a couple of other Brum Tugs on the Wey and we at the BrumTug Group on Facebook would be immensely grateful to hear if you find them. As far as I know they are:
1. TROS YR AFON: Originally BEAVER (1) and later ASTI. 71376 and possibly still in original 32ft form with long covered hold.
2. NUTHATCH: Originally BEAVER (2) 47299 but extended to 41ft and relicensed as 45879. Possibly still has long covered hold.We have very few photos of IBIS - apart from a recent photo and another posted on the Duck by the previous owner (Sean?), we have only the 2 below. The photo showing IBIS in black (courtesy Joy Arnold) was a very low res pic (12.7 KB) from the time before the cabin was extended. You can see that the name panel from the original all-black colour scheme has been retained, with the pale grey/green painted around it! In the Farmers Bridge photo, IBIS can just be seen behind Brum Tug No.2 EPOREDIA. This is an early photo and even then it seems that IBIS was painted black or battleship grey.
If you are a Facebook user, please come and find us at "BrumTug" - you will be made most welcome!
Colin-
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On 17/07/2020 at 10:13, Jessie86 said:
Hi all. Not specifically a Brumtug question but hopefully someone can advise. We’re considering buying a 61ft 1990 Brummagem and just wondered what people’s thoughts are on the build quality of their boats. Obviously dependent on how she’s been maintained over the years but are we looking at a fairly solid boat if it’s been looked after properly?
1990 is a while ago in the realm of steel hulls immersed long-term in water, especially in marinas with lots of other boats plugged into the mains. Even well-built hulls made from quality steel can be pretty rusty after 30 years. Brummagem used hulls/shells built by Colecraft (usually good quality steel), Malcolm Pearson (again good quality), and other builders. They also fabricated some hulls and shells themselves. Brummagem employed a substantial team of engineers, fitters, carpenters, painters, etc., for boat fitting out. Many were excellent. Many of their boats served in the Brummagem and Alvechurch hire fleets, marketed through Hoseasons through the 1980's and early 1990's. Hire boats are usually solid but relatively simple builds, lacking in luxury and refinement. In the early 1990's Brummagem were bought out by Alvechurch Boat Centre and all Brummagem activities ceased. I would suggest that the original build quality of a 1990's boat is less relevant 30 years on. It's now all about how the boat has been maintained and modified in those 30 years. Just get a full professional survey (not just hull) and make an offer accordingly.
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1 hour ago, Tim Lewis said:
On 14/06/2020 at 06:13, Scholar Gypsy said:
A bit of a long shot, I assume this is a different QUERCUS to that owned by Pat Barton, who sadly died last year.Pat Barton's Quercus from 2013
Thanks to you both for posting. It looks however like Pat Barton's boat was not a BrumTug. It's missing the distinctive bow/prow "snout" that most (but not all) BrumTugs had (see my photo of Brumtug CITY OF BIRMINGHAM below). However also the curvy cut-out sides to the cabin front end are unlike any of the other BrumTugs and totally different to the design visible in the photo posted by RS2012 taken from the 1988 Hoseason's brochure of BrumTug QUERCUS / QUERQUS (name changed over the years!).
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I know it's not a BrumTug post but as this is the most current Brummagem thread here, I'll post my full stock of 1976 Brummagem trip boat pics (4). The EUPHRATES PACKET is the one with the angled roof and skylights - steerer is Malcolm Wigley, now (I believe) living in New Zealand. BRUMMAGEM FLY is ex GUCCC COROLLA.
Apols for the poor quality - they are scanned from slides that are becoming very pink with age!
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26 minutes ago, John Brightley said:
Hi Colin. It's been recorded before on this forum that LAD, LADY and LASS had Rugby Boatbuilders hulls and Teddesley cabins.
Thanks John - I stand corrected! Feels like I'm going round in circles - a bit like going round and round the Oozell's Street Loop to catch as many glimpses of Sherborne Street Wharf as possible....
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1 hour ago, Alstonite said:
These roofs look identical to the one we fitted to the boat my father and I built at Teddersley on one of their hulls in the early 70's. I was drawn to the oval patch on each one on the roof above the doors as ours had the words "Teddersly Boating Centre" moulded into the fibreglass here.
Quite possibly the same mould? All I know about the 3 boats in my Brummagem photos is that the hulls were Rugby Boatbuilders - quite distinctive at both bow and stern. Did you see my photo of LORNA II, a sponsored boat in the mid-1970's Brummagem fleet, and most definitely a Teddesley build:
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On 18/06/2020 at 08:16, Sea Dog said:
Yes indeed, I saw the images and I'm in no doubt that she was written with "Querqus" in her time. Whether or not she started life with 2 Qs though, I'm still not sure - she only became an Alvechurch boat a few years later and she had 4 years of service behind her when she appeared in the 1992 brochure. We took her out as a brand new boat from Brummagem Boats, and I thought she was "Quercus" then (this seems to agree with @dave moore 's recollection of how he wrote her) but I can't be sure, which is why I acknowledged that my mind may have subsequently corrected the spelling to the correct Latin for me. Sorry I can't be definitive.
I have a photo of No1 son eating a sausage sandwich on the steerer's step, closely supported by Labrador No1, but that won't cast much light. I suspect we have other photos somewhere, so if I come across them I'll add to this thread if they're helpful.
Good luck in your quest!
Actually these personal memories are really helpful, and thank you for backing up Dave Moore's recollection. I think it all makes a great story - I can imagine it working out something like this:
In-house boat decorator Dave Moore is about to do the signwriting on yet another recently painted BrumTug for the hire fleet. He's seen the documents around the Wharf referring to BrumTug QUERQUS (with 2 Q's). Along comes Alan Green, designer and academic (I knew Alan) and says: "Ooo no, this is the Latin name for oak trees and it's spelt with a "C"!". Our Dave is a good lad and just does what he's told, so he changes the second "Q" to a "C". The boat's in the water, the happy hirers are rolling in thick and fast, and then one of them says: "Hang on, in our Hoseason's brochure it says "QUERQUS" with 2 Q's but this boat's got one Q and a C. The company directors all rush off to check their brochures and lo and behold the hirer is right - Hoseason's reckon it's QUERQUS but the boat is QUERCUS. So next time the boat comes up for a re-paint, QUERQUS it is!
I agree, the photo of No.1 son with his sausage sandwich might not help us a lot with documenting the changes in QUERCUS's name. But if I ever get round to writing a BrumTug book I might ask if I can use the photo anyway. Was it a QUERCUS Sandwich or a QUERCUS Sandwich then?? :) -
5 hours ago, Sea Dog said:
This is the Quercus I hired, which I think would likely have set out late March 1988, Good Friday being April Fool's Day that year. I certainly remember the stove burning for the entire trip. I suppose we must have been one of the first to take her out given that was her first season, and that would explain her resplendent paintwork and immaculate interior. I too remembered her as Quercus rather than Querqus as here, but I guess that's because my mind subsequently corrected the spelling for me! I recall the steerer's step was simply that, so the seats shown in the diagram were not there and there was no cockpit forward, just a short deck. I don't recall the drop down bunk being there, just a fold out double cross bed, but it may be that we just left it stowed. No1 son, aged 4, slept in the bench seat in the back cabin, which certainly made a good enough bed for him, but whether it was also long enough for an adult I don't recall.
April Fool's Day.....?? Maybe that's the explanation for the mis-spelling of QUERCUS?? Joking aside though, the "C" spelling is grammatically correct but I assume you saw the 2 images posted earlier by RS2021 of the boat in an Alvechurch hire brochure and the 1992 Hoseason's, clearly with the "Q" spelling?
I think that "drop down bunk" may just be a Hoseason's euphemism for a traditional fold out "bed 'ole" - they wouldn't have been too familiar with them at Hoseason's I imagine! Realistically the sleeping arrangements can only have been the cross-bed double (there would not have been a bunk above that), the side bed in the back cabin which would only really suit a child if the cross-bed was also in use, and the double / 2 singles in the front cabin. The layout plans in Hoseason's brochures were notoriously incorrect! -
1 minute ago, RS2021 said:
No problem. I'd be interested to see your full list of BrumTugs, but I'm not on Facebook so can't see your page. Any chance of a copy?
Yes, by all means. However it's an MS Excel spreadsheet and fairly extensive(!!), and also being updated every couple of days as new info comes in. Sadly I can't post Excel files to this Forum but can e-mail it to you if you give me your address?
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On 15/06/2020 at 09:18, Laurie Booth said:
A great holiday I had on Beaver. I tried to buy her 1 year later but she had just been sold.
This, of course, is the boat we are referring to as BEAVER (2), first licensed in 1989 (47299). She was part of the Alvechurch hire fleet when you hired her, and was then sold to R. Lawley in 1996. In 1999 she was lengthened by 9ft to 41ft and repainted red and blue. In 2003 she was renamed NUTHATCH and received a new licence number (45879). The re-naming came about after an embarrassing moment when bystanders watching a Rugby match shouted numerous comments about 'good Beaver', and similar!! Alan Waters bought the boat in 2010 and sold her a while later. She is thought now to be on the River Wey, still carrying the name NUTHATCH and now painted turquoise blue (photo).
This boat is NOT to be confused with BEAVER (1) which was first licensed in 1984 (71376) and the name "BRUM TUG BEAVER". This is the boat seen in photos of the Brummagem Boats hire fleet in the mid-1980's and the Hoseasons brochures posted here by RS2021 last week. In 1989(??) BEAVER (1) was sold to the Saisons hire fleet based at Whilton Locks and was renamed ASTI. In 2012 she was sold again, renamed TROS YR AFON, and is understood now also to be on the River Wey somewhere not too far from BEAVER (2) / NUTHATCH.
My feeling is (corroboration needed!) that the Brummagem Boats team liked the name BEAVER for a BrumTug, so that when BEAVER (1) was sold to Saisons in 1989 and renamed ASTI, they decided to re-allocate the name "BEAVER" to one of the last of the BrumTugs to be built - namely BEAVER (2) licensed in 1989. It is rather confusing though.......
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Have just finished scanning some slides from my brief time working at Sherborne Street Wharf in the summer of 1976, for both the small hire fleet and the trip boats. These photos show that at that time there was no footbridge across to the far side of the Oozell's Street Loop and (as far as I recall) no canal access at all on that side.
The hire fleet at that time consisted of 5 boats:
BRUMMAGEM LASS, BRUMMAGEM LAD, and BRUMMAGEM LADY were (I think) 42ft long on Rugby Boatbuilders hulls with GRP tops and roofs, louvred windows and Lister SR2's or SR3's. They were more or less identical with just detail differences as can be seen. They were hired as 4-berth (or 4/5?) and were the mainstay of the fleet at that time.
KALLIOPE was, I believe, slightly longer at 45ft and hired as a 5 or 6 berth IIRC. Again she had a Rugby Boatbuilders hull with a timber cabin and bus-type windows. I think she was privately owned by Julian (and/or Barrie) Stanton, the BB directors, and as such was hired out only for the larger groups or when LAD, LASS and LADY were already booked out.
LORNA II was another privately boat, owned by a friend of the Stanton brothers and leased to the fleet. She had a GRP top on a Teddesley hull, with a square stern, extremely short rear deck and Lister SR2. She was hired out as a 2 or 2/3 berth.
The occasion of the photos must have been right at the start of the hire season in early 1976 as the 4 longer boats were being craned back into the water after winter maintenance. I seem to recall being invited down to the wharf to watch the proceedings, and then being shouted at repeatedly to keep out of the way!!
In a couple of the photos the 70ft trip boat EUPHRATES PACKET, with its angled cabin top and skylight windows, can be seen moored in the arm at back, left. This was a purpose-built trip boat on which I was the occasional barman during the summer season of 1976, and even more occasional steerer. The name came from the original EUPHRATES PACKET which was a fly boat operated by Thomas Monk in the 1820's that operated a passenger and mail service between Tipton and Central Birmingham (see: http://blackcountryhistory.org/collections/getrecord/GB145_p_2211). The boat visible in my photos is not the same as the present EUPHRATES PACKET trip boat, which has a cabin somewhat resembling the 1970's boat but a totally different hull. The other trip boat in the Brummagem fleet was the BRUMMAGEM FLY, ex-GUCCC COROLLA. Both were moored during the winter at Sherborne Street Wharf, but operated out of Gas Street Basin.19 minutes ago, RS2021 said:Likewise. I have no first hand knowledge of the boat, just a collection of old brochures!
My only first hand experience of a BrumTug was to help recover one from the Stourbridge area which had been abandoned following a heart attack of one of the hirers. Although I have to say it is a design of boat which I can see the attraction for.
Not at all Sir, your contribution of the old brochures has been immensely helpful!!
I hope you don't mind but I will be sharing them on the Facebook BrumTug group that I set up recently, and which is the repository for the research I am undertaking into the BrumTug fleet? -
22 minutes ago, dave moore said:
Hi. I think by 1992 following the Alvechurch take over,I was no longer working at Sherborne Street. Another local writer, Peter Woodman also worked for Alvechurch in those days and may have lettered Quercus subsequently, but I’m not certain. It’s all long ago now, when I was young and had black hair! I was a fan of the tugs in the 80s, though having a body wrapped round the blades at Stoke on Trent in 86 did diminish my enthusiasm somewhat! It’s the only free docking job I ever had from BW!!
Had to read that twice Dave, as I thought initially it was your body wrapped around the blades. Fortunately not, but not fortunate for the unfortunate soul whose body it was, and mightily unpleasant for you as well I'm sure.
Believe me, I'm not trying to contradict you with the Querq/cus issue, just trying to get my head round it for the historical record! Thanks for all your info on this.
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On 15/06/2020 at 18:54, RS2021 said:
The second photo is from Hoseasons 1992 brochure and by this time the boat has been repainted and all the signwriting has been updated - probably post Alvechurch takeover, but is still Querqus.
I love the layout plan for QUERQUS in both the 1992 brochure and the 1988 one you posted previously - the "cocks" must have been very small to fit in the front "cockpit"!! Was this the only BrumTug to have no front well deck at all??
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On 15/06/2020 at 18:54, RS2021 said:
I've had another trawl through old brochures for Querc/qus.
All the brochures I can find print the name as Querqus and all the photos that can be deciphered show the name as Querqus, so it appears that that was the name used for its hire life. What happened after that...
These are brilliant RS2021 - thanks so much!! Abundantly clear that the spelling was with a "Q". I think though the "problem" is what happened BEFORE that and not after! Was the boat written with a "C" as I understood Dave Moore to say in a previous post, and then re-painted to QUERQUS with a "Q" to match the text that had already gone to print for the 1987 or '88 Hoseason's brochure??
The mystery deepens - if anyone has more information I'd love to hear from you. As they say - please form a Q !! Now where did I leave my coat............ ;) -
On 15/06/2020 at 09:29, dave moore said:
Years ago now we were on our way with Resolute to the National Festival at Redhill on the Soar, where I was running taster classes. We joined the queue at the bottom of the Watford flight, shortly after to be joined by a Quercus. We fell to chatting, as one does, and I raised the matter of spelling.
” Definitely with a C, “ I was told...” we are members of the Arboreal Society and we should know!”
Quercus with a "C" does seem to be the correct spelling, but even the University of Leicester seems unsure (see screenshot of tree)!!
I assume Dave you saw the post by RS2021 the other day showing the 1988 Hoseason's Brum Boats hire fleet listing with Querqus spelt with a "Q"?? I'm just wondering how that fits with your great story of when you were writing this boat - you said that Alan Green had corrected the spelling from "Q" to "C" thus saving you from the embarrassment of a mis-spelling. I'm assuming that the details had gone to print before you did the painting? So then I wonder how exactly the name is painted on the boat in the photo..... Perhaps fortunately for all concerned the photo resolution is too low to be seen here!EDIT: The above I wrote before RS2021 found his later photos showing QUERQUS spelt with a "Q", so now I'm really confused!! However the boat appears in both the "original" Brum Boats red livery, then (perhaps later?) with the main colour as green. Perhaps Dave, after your excellent initial work, the boat was re-painted for the name to match the Hoseason's brochure spelling?? ?
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After 2 days of solid work I have succeeded in producing Version 1 of my BrumTug Register and Fleet List. It is available for consultation in the Files Section of our Facebook "BrumTug" Group page at https://www.facebook.com/groups/2333300103642367
You do have to join the group to access the file. I work in Open Office but have also saved the file in MS Excel. I don't see a way to attach it in this Forum, but would be happy to e-mail it to anyone who is interested and who cannot (or does not wish to) access our Facebook page!
I would like to thank everyone who has posted information and commented on this subject over the last few days. The list I have produced is for discussion and correction, for the benefit of BrumTug owners and anyone interested in them. Please get in touch here or on the FB group.
[Photo of ESOX in case anyone has forgotten what a BrumTug looks like!]
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5 hours ago, Captain Pegg said:
I’d already intended to do that having read your comments above. I’ll see what he knows but I have no doubt he was referring to a BrumTug, he described the interior without me prompting.
I can recall a BrumTug being sold from Chirk Marina c.2015 and also passing one moored somewhere near Stockton three or four years ago. I note that’s near you so maybe that was yours?
Thanks JP! Through Sunday afternoon and evening I received a lot of information about QUERCUS / QUERQUS as you will see above, and accept that the boat is/was definitely a BrumTug. However we still don't have a BWB / CRT licence number for the boat and this would be very helpful even if expired.
You're right that I am not far from Stockton, however I don't have a BrumTug myself, just an endearment for them. My boat is a 70ft Colecraft full trad (back cabin and mid-engine) - perhaps a bit like a BrumTug on steroids?? -
3 hours ago, Rob-M said:
Hi Rob, Thanks for linking this discussion back to Dave Moore's November 2019 post! Especially interesting in the light of RS2021's post above showing BB hire fleet listings in the 1988 Hoseasons (?) brochure, in which the boat name is quoted as "QUERQUS" with 2 Q's!! I imagine the details had gone to print before Alan Green and Dave Moore corrected the sign writing on the boat itself.....
In case you hadn't guessed, I'm Colin from HWBG
Brummagem Brumtugs
in General Boating
Posted
The new owner (as of late 2020) is Martin Etheridge who is a member of this forum but who has not (yet) contacted the BrumTug Group on F.Book that I run. You should try to contact him through Canal world therefore!