howardang
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Posts posted by howardang
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Just noticed that I gave you the wrong web site. Try this one
https://www.watersidemooring.com/329-brighouse-basin-l1
Howard
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35 minutes ago, blue mick said:
That's very helpful
Thinking maybe I should delay my plans slightly to save more money and gain more learning
Been told this morning theys a boat yard in Brighouse were I'm working, does anybody know this place, I might visit it tomorrow
That's a very good idea and might save you a lot of heartache and hard work! There are many housekeeping jobs you need to get to know as well, like water and where will you be able to fill up winter as well as summer. Toilet waste disposal. Fuel replenishment. Battery charging, especially in winter. You are not allowed to run an engine to charge batteries after 2000 if in earshot of other boats, and most marinas will work on the same principle. At your chosen marina can you carry out repairs and especially their rules about tradesmen. All these sort of things need thinking about before you decide on a particular marina.
Brighouse Marina web site is :-
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Just in case you havent seen this here is a link to some information about the marina.
https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/directory/34836-frenches-wharf-marina
Howard
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14 minutes ago, blue mick said:
I live in the north near manchester, I intent to have it moored at a marina near a train station of work purposes.
Somebody I was speaking with said if I more it each week I would avoid council tax.
So I think just cruising up a down the local canal, certainly not constant cruising
No don't know much about boats total beginner but so was everyone once
Thanks for that. May I suggest that as well as asking here why not visit a few moorings in your area and speak to as many boaters as you can so that you can get a feel for what might be involved, and who knows, you may get invited to go for a trip or two.
Howard
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8 minutes ago, blue mick said:
Yes I'm a painter and decorator so I think a lot of cosmetic work would be fairly easy, it's the electrics and engine that's more of a concern.
I intend to live aboard monday to friday.
So with it being a GRP would the hull for a boat of this kind of age likely be good?
I assume that you will be working so have you thought about whether you will be a continuous cruiser or are you looking for a mooring? What part of the country will you be based? Do you know anything about boats or is this just a pipe dream because so far you haven’t given enough detail to get relevant and realistic advice.
Howard
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1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said:
Well I am a member of NABO and IWA but maybe I am not most boaters
Same here.
Howard
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3 hours ago, MtB said:
That is not however, what the OP asked about.
To answer his actual question, we need clarification about which he means. A self-drive hire boat or rent it out as an AirBnB or someone's home.
Very true, I was just trying to be helpful and possibly save the OP a waste of his time if it happens that he was thinking of renting out to earn an income, not realising that there may be some hurdles to jump which may put him off.
Howard
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17 hours ago, KEVIN121C said:
Hello All,
Can anyone recommend a boat mooring or Marina which allow you to rent your own boat out from in the West Midlands area or as close to as possible please .
Why don't you just cut to the chase and ask CRT for their advice on what you need to do to comply with their requirements. That way, at least you shouldn't have any issues with such as insurance requirements, CRT licence requirements etc. It might also be useful to ask your marina of choice what their views are.
You may get many different views on this forum and at least you will know what the official view is, and whether what you are proposing is possible or not..
Howard
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1 hour ago, BoatinglifeupNorth said:
Isn’t it just the Inland Waterways Association?
No it iwas initially a joint interest between IWA and NABO but the ere are many other organisation also involved. They are listed in the press release.
Howard
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5 minutes ago, Andyaero said:
What would be a usual/standard....... if such a thing exists....... length of galley, dinette, saloon, bathroom, bedroom on a 60' cruiser stern with cratch?
You could get a crude idea by looking at the brochures of some hire companies. They mainly offer cruiser stern boats, and you could modify layouts to suit your personal preference.
Howard
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1 hour ago, PeterScott said:
Valuable advice in contributions so far.
Try reading/asking Philip at https://www.boatshare.co.uk who has long experience and thorough knowledge of shared-narrowboats.
Nobody has mentioned the view from a possible part-owner. They are likely to pay, say a twelfth of fifty thousand pounds for the capital in the boat, and then maybe a thousand pounds each year for the right to use the boat for a month. Those lumps-of-money may be a stretch for the family. For those of us familiar with boat-maintenance, a thousand-pound job, or five-thousand to sort out the engine, or ... are just something we might shrug-off as one-of-those-things: it could be a major issue for our new part-owner. Even more serious is that small-hole in the pumpout tank, which needs to be replaced for one of those five-thousand-pound jobs, and use the three or four weeks that were the family's WHOLE-YEAR's holiday. Someone has to tell them the bad news ...
Well done, Peter, you just did!
Howard
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13 hours ago, haggis said:
As it was me who took the case to the Ombudsman all those years ago I don't think that is quite correct. My memory says that a higher licence fee was paid if the management company still owned part of the boat. As that was the case with Challenger, I believe they had to continue paying the higher fee - 247% if I remember correctly. Boats with OwnerShips and other companies started paying the same fee as privately owned boats. Sally Ash of BW fame could never understand the difference between a boat owned by several people and one owned by a company like timeshare and used by several people.
Thinking back to the saga I have fond memories of Eugene Baston who was on our side and helped "behind the scenes" but not so fond memories of the iWA who when approached refused to help.
As you may remember my wife and I were shareholders in Ownerships like yourselves, and like many others we certainly remember the feeling of injustice in being classed as a commercial operation. We were very grateful for your efforts in fighting our corner with BW/CRT to change the rules, and in winning an agreement that when all shares in a boat were totally owned by the owners with no shares being owned by a management company, then those boats were treated in exactly the same way as any other privately owned boat, which was indeed, and meant that we were able to take advantage of a fairer licence fee, rather than being treated as a commercial operation and charged at a higher rate. . We employed Ownerships to do the day to day operational management until a few years later when they ceased trading, at which time we decided in both our boats, to form owners syndicates and run them in all aspects by the owners. In our case and in many other shared ownership boats, this arrangement has worked very well and in our case went on until we decided to give boating a break a couple of years ago. I think it is fair to say that over 100 hundred shared boats are run under this basis very satisfactorily. Certainly, my wife and I had many years under this system and enjoyed our involvement and satisfaction in being totally responsible with the rest of the syndicate for looking after our boat.
Howard
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6 minutes ago, David Mack said:
My suggestion would be that you don't even hint at your scheme to CRT. Some years ago BW/CRT decided that shareboat schemes operated much like hire boats, so should pay the higher hire boat licence fee. There was much protest from people who asked how a share boat (in which shares were held by 12 individuals) was any different to a boat owned by a couple, or how 12 owners paying a management organisation to arrange licencing, insurance, maintenance etc. was really any different to a single private owner paying a boatyard to do repairs. Eventually a compromise was reached whereby commercially managed share boat schemes (of the Challenger/Ownerships type) would pay the higher licence fee, but those where the management was done wholly by the co-owners would continue to be regarded as private leisure boats. In such cases one named individual is the point of contact with CRT and is the boat owner as far as they are concerned.
The OP's scheme, with him holding half the shares and doing all the management looks to me a little like the commercial type of operation, particularly if the fee structure includes an element of the other 6 owners paying the OP for his management role.
I remember the discussions about commercial and private schemes very well having been deeply involved. Of course the OP could do what you suggest but if I was a potential purchaser of a share I would hope that it was run properly and above board. Your advice seems to lean towards bending the rules and I would not wish to buy into such a scheme.
Howard
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29 minutes ago, David Mack said:
Some years ago Ownerships and Challenger were the main share boat operators/managers. Both companies went belly up. Some of the syndicates elected to transfer to other managers and some went self-managed. I know there are some forum members who have gone the latter route and who may be willing to advise how it worked for them.
I was an owner in two of these self managed scheme after Ownerships went belly up and both schemes worked very well. In your scheme it seems to be a hybrid between a syndicate run scheme and a managed shame and I am not sure how CRT or an insurance company would view it. I for one would not like to join such a scheme where you regard yourself as a principal owner and dictate repairs etc. My suggestion would be to put the scheme to CRT in the first instance to get their views before going any further.
Howard
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2 minutes ago, Bee said:
This is a real challenge. There are places where you might, eventually, find somewhere. Bristol, the Western end of the K & A but it will be difficult in the extreme. Apart from that you are looking at coastal marinas. The cost of marinas in the South West is kind of out of most peoples range and that is for smaller boats. A sixty foot boat is up in the superyacht size and that will be expensive and difficult. Falmouth and the river Fal might be possible. Apart from that you will really have to get in a car and spend time travelling around and asking but you might find this a hard task.
Agreed, and if you decide to take this advice, please make sure that when sizing up suitable moorings you take into account the need for occasional drydocking, repairs/alterations and if your chosen new location is able to offer you some peace of mind with regard to mooring longevity, i.e. can you rely on being able to stay there long term.
Good luck in your search.
Howard
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24 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:
Definitely, much less ready to accept questions apparently being ignored - that is if you lot consider me an expert.
In my humble opinion I think you more than qualify for the expert category!🤙
Howard
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21 hours ago, LadyG said:
I've been here five years, so I've sussed out the ones whose advice I would take, the others who can be regular posters are generally on ignore. It's sometime interesting to read the non experts, as they may have a different view.
Some folks have specialist expertise, so they only post when that is relevant.
Yes, I think I can safely say similar having been here on and off for 19 years. However, I do detect a subtle change over the years in that in earlier times there was less of the dogmatic responses by some "experts" with more tolerance generally towards newcomers with genuine questions.
Howard
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5 hours ago, LadyG said:
.....
As a regular poster, I know who are the experts, so I start reading their posts firsts, newbies don't have this advantage. Some posters get annoyed when the thread drifts off topic, but this is the nature of this forum, it bumps the thread. Generally the answer will be found in the first few responses.
Or maybe I think you meant " I know those who think they are experts."
It all depends on where their field of expertise lies, and some will give the impression that they are expert and knowledgeable in all subjects. Sometimes a pinch of salt is called for, which is difficult for the newcomer who may take all advice given as gospel. That, of course, can be the issue with forums such as this one.
Howard
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12 hours ago, Pluto said:
On the L&LC, unpowered boats were called 'dummies' after diesel power was introduced.
FWIW Unpowered barges in a port scenario loading or unloading ships have very often been called Dumb
Barges.
Howard
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6 minutes ago, oboat said:
Not the Welland. This is looking back to the entry to the navigation.
Not the Welland Canal I know.
Howard
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9 hours ago, David Mack said:
They named their company after the old rope you stuff into cracks between your boat's planking?
If that is the case they spelt it wrong - the correct spelling is Oakum.
Howard
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32 minutes ago, MtB said:
That's one helluva big "as long as".
Who here would get inside their integrated narrowboat water tank and cement-wash it every year, if they had one?
C'mon, hands up!
Quite right. I wasn’t for one second suggesting that for canal boats but rather mentioning it for context and possible mild interest for some people. When I was a cadet I spent many happy hours in fresh water tanks scraping and then cement washing tanks and I’m sure everyone is pleased that there are better ways of doing this essential maintenance which is required by law each year.
Howard
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38 minutes ago, Napton said:
Many thanks for all your comments both for and against concrete and integral tanks. You’ve sort of reinforced the impression I got that this was a load of bull. I guess if I won that boat, I’d sell it and get a decent one. But I haven’t bought a ticket! 🤣
39 minutes ago, Napton said:Many thanks for all your comments both for and against concrete and integral tanks. You’ve sort of reinforced the impression I got that this was a load of bull. I guess if I won that boat, I’d sell it and get a decent one. But I haven’t bought a ticket! 🤣
There is nothing too problematical about integral tanks as long as they are coated properly and maintained regularly. When i first went to sea and for many years after, most ships had integral fresh water tanks which were cement washed every year.
rRegarding concrete boats, there have been many examples over the years, barges, yachts and other floating structures. If they are constructed properly, there is nothing wrong with their method of construction. However, over the years I have come across a number of sea going yachts which have been built using cement which have started to corrode internally due to trying to use this method on the cheap, and the cost for the repairs is horrendous, and sometimes not worth doing which may have given this method of construction a bad name. It is often the case that the reinforcing bars that are corroding rather than the cement which is failing.
Howard
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It doesn't appeal to me for a couple of reasons in my view.
1 - once in position you have no way of checking whether ant rusting is taking place and if for any reason the area where the concrete is gets wet you won't be able to check that it hasn't found its way underneath. Boats can and do flex, and although it may appear to be a perfect sea, over time ot may move slightly allowing water ingress.
2 - If ever you need to remove some or all of the ballast to change the trim of the boat or if you add weighty items which may lead to a need to redistribute ballast it will be a major job to remove.
In my view it is a quick way of adding ballast but for the reasons above it may be a problem in later years after purchase.
Howard
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Long term boat hire or boat share options
in General Boating
Posted · Edited by howardang
I think you may have a great deal more difficulty in finding many share boat syndicates that are willing to do this. In many cases a share boat is just like any other privately owned boat that just happens to have more than one owner, and to do what you suggest would certainly entail a lot of cost in meeting the more stringent costs of a hire boat company - insurance and safety aspects for example. A syndicate is usually used year round by owners - most shared boats are used more than hire boats for example during a year - and even if they were willing to contemplate such an arrangement I would suggest that there may not be any way your suggestion could be slotted into the syndicates owners bookings.
Howard