Tony1

You rang, m'lady? Hey, no, don't panic. I'm just joking. Unless, that is, you have lithium batteries....

Can I just say- tree monkey made me do it.

I may be a tad over-cautious, of course, but I've noticed not many of the ladies of the forum are actively contributing to this particular thread, which could mean some of the comments are not very appealing, and if at all possible I'd prefer not to cause any discomfort, distaste, or offence. And anyway, with your invaluable help I think I've already identified exactly the sort of lady I should be looking for, should I ever feel like pursuing affairs of the heart in future.

I was about to say I think I might have already seen a couple of such creatures on the canals of Cheshire, but I must cease and desist from this line of enquiry Mr Monkey. I fear we are straying into dangerous and controversial territory, and our female forum colleagues may not appreciate the full hilarity of the 'bantz'.

Yes, in many ways that is the ideal woman. It is important for any would-be romeo to identify his target audience, so this is progress. And if you'd met me, you'd realise that your putative bald, short sighted lady would have to lower her dating standards.

Aha Mr C, you might think that. But I have 1400 watts of solar panels, and a set of lithium batteries, so I fear no hairdryers- well, at least not the low power models. I use a 1000 watt electric kettle that boils a mug's worth of water in about 4 minutes, so the purported future Mrs Tony will be able to dry her hair, albeit rather slowly. If she wants to boil a kettle AND dry her hair at the same time, then we will have a problem.

In the late 80s I lived full time with a woman for the first time, and I suddenly grasped the critical importance of understanding a woman's thinking, because it quickly became clear that if the woman was not happy, then nobody on the premises was going to be happy. Not even the dog. I was alarmed to discover that there were a large number of domestic issues which could cause unhappiness, involving everything from the toilet seat to the colour of wallpaper. Initially I rather resented this reign of terror, but of course it was just her trying to make sure the place was run in a civilised way, and me being a stupid bloke-ish troglodyte. I'll probably never be subtle or smart enough to understand an intelligent woman's thinking, but as long as I pick up on what needs to be done, and the essential procedures relating to laundry etc, I feel I'm off to a start at least.

I think the Americans call this sort of thing a murphy bed, and there are some examples on youtube that have been made/fitted into vans and motorhomes (of similar width to a narrowboat). In the example above the bed folds into four, with the fold lines running transversely, but this wont be so easy on a narrowboat, as the head or the base of the bed will need to be attached to a bulkhead. I wonder if it might also be worth considering one that folds along its length, with the side of it attached to a side wall? I'm sure you'll have considered this, but if the bed stays permanently flat (and doesnt fold like the example in the picture) it will take up a big area of the side wall, thus blocking any windows behind it, and reducing the sense of light and space a bit. On the other hand, if the bed folds along its length into two sections, it might take up a couple of feet of space along the side wall. When people put them into vans, they tend to have the bed base rigid/ permanently flat, so the bed stays made up. When the bed base is lowered, the edge of it comes to rest on top of a bench seat on the opposite wall. Its a clever idea but I am not 100% convinced about how useful it really is. Lifting the bed can create some open floor space during the day, which sounds good, but what would you do with that space, bearing in mind you have to lower the bed again in the evening, or if someone is feeling under the weather and wants to lie down for an hour? Anyway its all very interesting, and I hope you'll let us know what design you settle on, and how it works in practice.

Joking aside, I think there are many civilian women who would be attracted to the idea of holidaying on a narrowboat, or even taking extended cruises- as long as they have a house to return to, with all of its comforts. So yes, I would agree that a narrowboat has an big appeal, but not necessarily as a place to live full time and permanently. But a widebeam like yours is a different animal altogether. For a start, the living space is much closer to what the woman would be used to. Also, you can fit larger water tanks, more storage space for clothes and normal civilian things, a full size bed can be put in there with no adaptations needed, and so it goes on. I think it would be much easier for a woman to look at a widebeam and to be very positive about the idea of living aboard, where she would have some reservations about narrowboat living. I'm not a woman of course, and I have no means to fathom the inner workings of the female brain, so I may well be wide of the mark. But in terms of attracting the interest of a non-boating woman, I think yes, a boat might be a great thing. But if the proposition is to live aboard it, I think a much smaller number would find a narrowboat to be attractive.

I only hope you respect the sheep in the morning, Mr S.... But it strikes me that your average sheep may not be inclined to agree to a romantic liaison with any passing boater. This is rather a niche field- and one in which I should point out I have no experience- but I had always imagined sheep to be more discerning creatures. Best bib and tucker, etc, I should think. Perhaps even a splash of Old Spice, or Hai Karate if you have any left from the 70s.

My dear Mr Smiler, as we have never met, you will not be aware of my amazing good looks and charm. Should it become publicly known that I am once again 'on the market', so to speak, my hope would be that the ladies would form an orderly queue, and complete the necessary application forms and interviews. But I fear they may become desperate, and it can only be a matter of time before one of them kidnaps me.

Absolutely. My ex tried it out 😂

Should my thoughts ever turn to matters romantic, I'm fairly sure alchohol alone will not make me sufficiently alluring. I would be more likely to succeed if hallucinogenic drugs were involved. And kidnapping. And I know this is going to sound hopelessly old-fashioned and mawkish, but I'm not sure if kidnapping is a sound basis for a long term relationship. Besides, I don't look good in handcuffs 😄

Why you're right, and my apologies to the OP for reading one sentence and thinking I'd got the gist of it. That said, I am a bit interested in what the actual figures are for the ratio of single male/single female boaters. I'm not looking for any kind of romantic relationship with a female boater, but it would be interesting to know how bad the odds were in purely numerical terms, in the event that I ever did actively look (and I'm not even sure what 'actively looking' would involve, to be fair). I'm rather out of practice. I imagine my chat up lines might involve lithium batteries.

When I got a poynting aerial and pole, I seated it into the existing holder that was there for the repeater thingy I used to have. When the aerial is dismounted, the cable stays connected to it, and I lay it flat on the roof under the front solar panels, so its relatively safe from harm. Having the antenna connected constantly means I can use the router 24/7 as a wifi source, and because its outside the hull, even when laid flat it can still get a decent signal a lot of the time. I led the cable under the cratch cover (its quite thin), and then into the cabin through an existing hole in the front wall that was used for the TV aerial wire. Once the cable is inside, the router can sit almost anywhere on the boat, so I kept the cable as short as possible and sited the router close to where the cable comes in. If you can site the mast near the front of the cabin roof, and then feed the cable in under the flaps of the cratch cover, you might be able to avoid using connectors- although this is not the most elegant solution visually to be fair, and I might one day opt for a connector to tidy it up a bit.

I can't help thinking that as a full time liveaboard on a wide beam boat, I'd have to have a coal stove in those dark and freezing winter months. Perhaps I could sneak in a small chimney in somewhere on that roof, and disguise it so that it doesnt ruin the whole film-star yacht aesthetic...? No, probably not... Perhaps their next project will be a 'Titanic'-styled widebeam, with a series of chimney stacks along the roof.

My advice to the OP would be basically don't hold your breath, unless you look like Brad Pitt, are as rich as Croesus, and have the wit of Oscar Wilde. And if you are all of those things, don't get picky. Just restricting it to liveaboards- I don't know what the numbers are of single female boaters (of various age groups), as compared to single male boaters, but from what I've seen so far, I suspect the single males outnumber the single females by about 5 to 1, if not more. So it's no surprise to hear that single female boaters spend a lot of time basically fielding offers and approaches of all sorts, from all sorts of male boaters. I never make even very subtle overtures of a romantic sort to female boaters, because I don't want to add to the nuisance factor in their lives, and and they're probably fed up hearing all the lines. When I made the decision to try liveaboard boating, I accepted that it was probably unlikely I would find a compatible female partner, and I'm not expecting that to change unless/until I move back into a house. I saw the lack of potential female partners as an inevitable side-effect of moving aboard, and I bet there are not hundreds of true stories of couples who met whilst living aboard. It might be possible to even estimate the numbers, in a very very rough way. I half-recall seeing a statement that there are only about 6,000 or 7,000 full time liveaboard boats, and I would think about half of those will be couples. At a wild guess, I'd say that of the 3,000 ish full time liveaboard boats owned by single people, at least 2,500 of them will be men. So my very rough fag-packet estimate would be if you want to meet a liveaboard woman specifically, your target population might be as little as about 500 women, in the entire country. If you extend the 'search' to include female boaters who live aboard on a part time basis, you multiply the 500 by 5 or 6 maybe? So its still not even a fraction of the number of single women you might hope to meet if you lived in a house. Whatever the exact population numbers are, they are certainly not that great. I reckon you might have more luck advertising among civilian women, rather than the boating types.

For the OP: Just to throw the cat amongst the pigeons and perhaps stimulate a different line of thought, I wonder what you think of this wee beastie? (setting aside the limitations of it being all-electric for the moment) I think its a lovely thing, even if it is slightly mad- especially with that powerboat-styled rear deck, but doubtless it would be horrifically expensive, and if I'm honest, its sheer novelty means you would be having conversations about it all day long, with boaters and civilians. So I would never buy one, unless money was literally no object. It seems like its probably been made partly to showcase design ideas, rather than strictly to a customer's spec. The dutch barges will always be the most beautiful boats to live aboard on our rivers and (wide) canals- no argument there, at least from me. But if I was cruising in this thing, every time I came back from Tesco with the shopping, I'd have to stop and stare at it for five minutes before going aboard. And as for storing 10 bags of coal on the roof in winter- well that would surely constitute some sort of criminal offence.

I'm sure you've seen a few of these, but just in case- here's a view of the interior of a Thomas. These are lovely looking boats, but I bet they're really, really expensive to buy new.

The phrase 'ocean going' is not a clear expression of what I had in mind. I am thinking about the sort of boat that would be capable of crossing the channel, or perhaps even the north sea, as many dutch barges have done. Or perhaps even cruise around the UK coasts in moderate weather, as Tim Spall did in his barge (although I dont know if his barge was able to cruise any canals). Most of the yachts I've seen do not have flat bottoms, nor do the offshore power boats, so my presumption was that a flat bottomed hull would not be well suited to say a channel crossing, in a boat of about 50 or 60ft. The Katherine class has the potential to cross the channel as a category C vessel, but has a mostly rounded hull bottom from what I can tell, with perhaps a flattish section, but it also has a draft of 2.8ft, so it would be ok to cruise places like the Thames, but the OP was wondering if something like the Katherine could also cruise any of the canals, or indeed if any other boat could do this kind of thing.

I disagree. He said the word boats, but the example given was of a ship, not a boat. (Or at least not in a boat in the sense that the OP and myself were using the word. As I said, it is certainly interesting to see how flat the bottoms of these big ships are, and its a positive sign that they are largely flat, but the specific issue that myself and the OP were trying to focus in on was whether a flat bottomed boat (of the size and type that could cruise our canals) was as seaworthy as a similarly sized boat that does not have a flat bottom, so any clarification on that would be really interesting. I'm guessing we would have to be talking about a widebeam canal boat, but as I said I know almost nothing of the subject.

Whilst its interesting to see that modern big ships have flattish bottoms, I'm really talking about boats here, not ships- so an answer relevant to boats would be more helpful, and even more interesting.

Does that design principle also apply with the seaworthines of 50ft vessels?

The question of how seaworthy the various hulls are I will leave to the experts, I'm just assuming based on the fact that most ocean-going boats I've seen do not have flat bottoms. I did have this dream of cruising a boat across the channel and down through Europe, but now that we are limited to 3 months from every 6, it doesnt seem feasible, or at least enjoyable, to guarantee getting your boat out of the schengen zone by a certain date. People do it in motorhomes, but a boat is a different matter. If you are able to claim nationality of an Eu country that will open all the borders to you and remove all the restrictions, but thats not very easy. I recently discovered that there is a small chance I might be eligible to claim Dutch nationality, so if that comes up trumps then my next step, in about 2 years time, might be to sell up and buy a GRP boat in france to live on the European canals.

Well I'm certainly not going to contradict a barge builder 😄 Its just the way I personally think of them, as I said. I do love the lines of the ones where the stern sweeps inward down to the waterline. The dutch barges seen on UK canals are probably no more authentic than a 'trad' narrowboat built in 1995 that has 'fake' rivets in the hull, and the names of long gone trading companies painted on the side- but I spent many months dreaming of owning a barge like Timothy Spall's, that could do some coastal cruising or cross the channel, and in my mind that has become fixed as the idea of a proper dutch barge - and I dont really care what the actual dutch say!