Up The Creek

April 21, 2015

Apologies again for tardy response to suggestions; I'm only at the boat once a week at present.

I think you may have put your finger on the problem. Yes, there is a sense that the frequency is changing/slowing as well as the volume; in a way, the sound seems to change from a loud, persistent 'buzz' to a quieter 'croaking snore' (hope that makes sense!) as the revs increase and, when I last tested, the noise disappeared completely for a split second or so at higher revs. And the alternator warning light is glowing slightly with the engine running.

I need to try what Tony suggests (although it may be beyond me!) but, in the meantime, does this sound like a potentially serious fault which needs urgent attention?

Thanks again for your advice.

Bob

April 15, 2015

Apologies for the delay in replying – I’ve been away from the boat for a few days. Ref. the suggestions and queries:

I doubt that the boat builder added an additional sensor or alarm, in that he personally came out to service the boat late last year and was also stuck for ideas.

Yes – the warning lights (oil and battery; no temperature) come on at ignition and then immediately go off.

If I increase the revs to over 2,000, the volume of the buzzing decreases significantly to become almost – but not totally - inaudible. Re. the confusion between the ‘whistle’ and the ‘buzz’, they do emanate from exactly the same ‘black box’ (Kingstate KPE-209), but the sounds are very different, and they are never audible simultaneously (ie the initial whistle is transformed into a buzz once the engine starts, and vice versa once I turn the engine off).

Hope that helps?!

Thanks.

Bob

April 10, 2015

Thanks John and Iain. I'll do the checks you suggest.

The alarm when in "run' position is a very different (whistling) sound from the loud buzzing I've been getting once the engine starts, which I have simply assumed is an alarm. Does that make any sense?

Regards.

Bob

April 8, 2015

Some advice would be welcome on a recent problem.

I recently acquired a Sea Otter with a 27HP Vetus engine. A fault has developed where a quite noisy buzzing (which I assume to be the alarm) comes from within the control panel as soon as I switch the engine on, and only disappears when the ignition is turned off.

A marine engineer came to look at it, but was unable to fathom the problem; his best guess was that there was a fault with the oil pressure sensor, which I don’t know how to check. He could find nothing seriously amiss - the oil warning light only glows momentarily, as normal, when I turn the engine on.

Any ideas? How to check the oil pressure sensor? Any other obvious possibilities?

Many thanks.

Bob

October 5, 2013

Many thanks for all your advice. We will probably give it a go, and make sure we complete the trip before 4 November.

One other point; I might need to tackle the first third of the journey single-handed. Any particular issues there? At 36' the boat is not particularly long, and has a bow thruster.

October 5, 2013

We are in the middle of purchasing a 36' Sea Otter, and need to transport it from the Middle Level Navigation (near Peterborough) to The Thames (Shepperton) at the end of October, or sometime in November. We are thinking of cruising from the Middle Level via the Nene/Grand Union/Thames. It's not an ideal time of year to be taking a boat on a 2-3 week trip, but it would save us quite a lot of money compared to lorry transport, and would probably be fun.

Any views on why we should/should not do it? We are moderately experienced boaters (but usually - wimpishly - only on the Thames in summer!).

Thanks for any advice.

June 21, 2012

I can't find original so I'll quote this one.

The readings above; I'll assume you mean 80Ah not 80A (400Ah). Your voltage reading under load is pretty meaningless, so the 12.37 after 80Ah is not U/S batteries. It's really not bad, implying a capacity (without doing any maths) of 350-500Ah.

80Ah in 5 hours is average 16A (what load?) and while I wouldn't expect that load to drag the batteries down to 10.2 the recovery, to me, suggests a connection problem. Making reliable connections for high current 12V is not trivial.

I am posting against my better judgement as I think you need to call in some expert help. On-site diagnosis would be so much easier than this remote wibbling.

And back to solicitor...(sorry) an initial consultation, which could be free, will at least tell you where you stand on responsibilities and possibilities.

Thank you all.

Batteries are from CPC; they are unnamed .........

The 80 ah over 5 hours (average 16 amps) comprised the usual evening load, for me: a fridge freezer, a few ceiling and side lights, plus TV/radio.

I agree it's time for expert help (including legal), which I am currently arranging.

When/if these problems are finally resolved, I promise to post the outcome on the forum!

Bob

June 14, 2012

Thanks, Dave.

Yes, the hydrometer is a little more difficult to use than I had expected, but I'm fairly sure that only a very small percentage of readings would be out by more than an infinitesimal amount. Am usually quite good at spotting the bullshitters (inability to write coherent English is often one sign!) but, hey, they are all trying to help.........

Ref. solicitors, I had tried to get this taken forward as part of my insurance legal cover, but the company of solicitors refused to do so because the policy for legal cover was not taken out on the day the vessel was purchased (yes, you read that correctly). As my brokers say, with concern, to the BMF: "any of our clients that purchase this legal cover after purchasing their vessel - which a great many do - would not be covered". Worrying. The BMF were unable to help. Solicitors will not take this on a "no win, no fee" basis as the value of the claim would be less than £5,000. I am reluctant to take this forward at my own expense, until I am sure of my ground. What "potential holes" do you see? (Jay: I had mentioned the Sale of Goods Act - goods must be fit for purpose - in a previous post, and have reminded the builders of their responsibilities under it).

Chris: although both the electrician here at the marina, and another Forum member, feel that the cabling/connections are not the source of the problem, it's a fair point about absence of photos which I said I would post. I use an IPAD (no flash), and have no PC Internet connection at present, and don't think it's possible to post photos with that combination (?). My problem, but that's the reason for the delay.

Last point, as I think we are coming to the end of the road on this (sound of cheering all round!): may I offer a heartfelt 'thank you' to all who have tried to help me with this problem, and particularly to Dave, Nick and Tony, who gave so much of their free time. It really has cheered me up to find so many kind people willing to offer their expertise to those who are 'challenged' in this area. If any of you happen to be on the Kingston part of the Thames, there are some excellent pubs around here, and the drinks are most certainly on me!

It's good to be part of this Forum.

Bob

June 14, 2012

I had hoped and expected that equalisation would give a better improvement than this, but at least its all good learning.

I also hope that Gibbo might make a contribution.

I am a very experienced engineer but my knowledge of batteries is limited to what I have learned by facing issues similar to yours on my own boat.

(this is my contribution to the new forum policy on electrical honesty ????)

Gibbo has broader experience of batteries.

However it looks like terminal suplhation to me.

Are you confident about your hydrometer technique? its not easy to be accurate despite what many will say.

If you can keep your electrical demand down then you may be able to muddle through with these batteries whilst you gain a bit more knowledge and experience.

I try to avoid "political" type contributions but:

Use solitors as a last resort, and only if you are sure you have a strong case...from your previous posts I can see some potential holes in yours. .

Treat all experts, (both amateur and professional) as bullshitters till they prove otherwise (confidence is often inversely proportional to knowledge).

Accept that even real experts can have different views of boat electrics and don't make expensive changes unless you are sure that they are required.

..........Dave

June 13, 2012

Oops, sorry, the table did not appear as I had constructed it!

Try a different way. The numbers 1-6 refer to the individual batteries:

1. Old SG range: 1.220-1.255. New SG range: 1.225-1.250. No. cells which increased by more than 0.05: 3. No. cells which decreased by more than 0.05: 0.

2. Old SG range: 1.225-1.260. New SG range: 1.235-1.245. No. cells which increased by more than 0.05: 2. No. cells which decreased by more than 0.05: 2

3. Old SG range: 1.230-1.260. New SG range: 1.240-1.260. No. cells which increased by more than 0.05: 4. No. cells which decreased by more than 0.05: 1

4. Old SG range: 1.225-1.250. New SG range: 1.240-1.250. No. cells which increased by more than 0.05: 3. No. cells which decreased by more than 0.05: 0.

5. Old SG range: 1.230-1.250. New SG range: 1.240-1.250. No. cells which increased by more than 0.05: 1. No. cells which decreased by more than 0.05: 0.

6. Old SG range: 1.225-1.250. New SG range: 1.245-1.250 . No. cells which increased by more than 0.05: 3. No. cells which decreased by more than 0.05: 0

Apols.

Bob

June 13, 2012

Thanks for this, Pete, and for your previous posts. Yes, I think it will be very difficult ever to know what caused the overcharging last time but, although I will still pursue it, I am far more concerned about getting things sorted for the future.

Regards.

Bob

Well it did get to float eventually this morning, after I had taken all the load off. Not sure I am using my (new!) clamp meter properly, but the amp reading I got from it was 0.8. Maybe, as you suggest, there is a default minimum to keep it at absorption so long. Have asked Victron.

After a further 3 hours equalisation today (4 hours in total), this is a summary of the changes which resulted:

Battery. SG Range. No. cells SG increase No. cells SG decrease

Old* New. of + 0.05. of + 0.05

1. 1.220-1.255. 1.225-1.250. 3. 0

2. 1.225-1.260. 1.235-1.245. 2. 2

3. 1.230-1.260. 1.240-1.260. 4. 1

4. 1.225-1.250. 1.240-1.250. 3. 0

5. 1.230-1.250. 1.240-1.250. 1. 0

6. 1.225-1.250. 1.245-1.250. 3. 0

* before equalisation.

So, a variable picture, mildly encouraging that in all batteries the minimum SG increased, but in some cells the SG actually went down after being equalised. In none did the maximum increase; in one case it decreased.

Re. voltage: after equalisation and taking the batteries off the shoreline for a few hours, the voltage readings dropped dramatically just as before (see my first post) i.e. from 12.65 down to 10.2 volts (using Victron Monitor) after drawing 80 amps (from fully charged) in just over 5 hours; each individual battery also gave exactly the same reading of 10.2v. Taking all load off then led to an increase in the Monitor reading to 12.37v, with each individual battery also reading 12.39v.

Any other interpretation would be interesting. Worth trying the equalisation for a few more hours? I feel I am flogging the proverbial dead (albeit happily equalised.......) equine.

Bob

June 13, 2012

Maybe call a local BSS examiner, who might know someone in the trade. I've heard there's a one up river at Port Hampton, the BSS website should have a list of local ones.

I'm not that far away myself but don't do commercial work, anyway it sounds like it'd be hard to find out what happened exactly originally, now the batts are replaced and charger adjusted.

cheers,

Pete. ~smpt~

Thanks for this, Pete, and for your previous posts. Yes, I think it will be very difficult ever to know what caused the overcharging last time but, although I will still pursue it, I am far more concerned about getting things sorted for the future.

Regards.

Bob

Are you sure you are checking the current correctly? Your battery monitor may well be showing zero current, but that is current into/ out of the battery. If the battery is fully charged, the monitor will show zero even though boat services might be taking many amps. You should put the clamp-meter around the charger 12v lead (either +ve or -ve) to check what current the charger is having to produce. From the charger's point of view it cannot distinguish between batteries taking current because they are not yet fully charged, vs boat services taking current. Even though you think you have turned everything off, maybe you have forgotten something that takes enough current to keep the charger in absorption.

Alternatively, since I am not familiar with products other than Mastervolt, maybe you are still on the minimum time the charger stays in absorption regardless of current, something that can almost certainly be configured in the software. The default value for this in our MV charger is 45 minutes.

Well it did get to float eventually this morning, after I had taken all the load off. Not sure I am using my (new!) clamp meter properly, but the amp reading I got from it was 0.8. Maybe, as you suggest, there is a default minimum to keep it at absorption so long. Have asked Victron.

After a further 3 hours equalisation today (4 hours in total), this is a summary of the changes which resulted:

Battery. SG Range. No. cells SG increase No. cells SG decrease

Old* New. of + 0.05. of + 0.05

1. 1.220-1.255. 1.225-1.250. 3. 0

2. 1.225-1.260. 1.235-1.245. 2. 2

3. 1.230-1.260. 1.240-1.260. 4. 1

4. 1.225-1.250. 1.240-1.250. 3. 0

5. 1.230-1.250. 1.240-1.250. 1. 0

6. 1.225-1.250. 1.245-1.250. 3. 0

* before equalisation.

So, a variable picture, mildly encouraging that in all batteries the minimum SG increased, but in some cells the SG actually went down after being equalised. In none did the maximum increase; in one case it decreased.

Re. voltage: after equalisation and taking the batteries off the shoreline for a few hours, the voltage readings dropped dramatically just as before (see my first post) i.e. from 12.65 down to 10.2 volts (using Victron Monitor) after drawing 80 amps (from fully charged) in just over 5 hours; each individual battery also gave exactly the same reading of 10.2v. Taking all load off then led to an increase in the Monitor reading to 12.37v, with each individual battery also reading 12.39v.

Any other interpretation would be interesting. Worth trying the equalisation for a few more hours? I feel I am flogging the proverbial dead (albeit happily equalised.......) equine.

Bob

June 13, 2012

Good idea. I had asked once for suggestions for an expert local to me (Thames, at Surbiton) who might be able to advise, but no recommendations were forthcoming. And yes, as has been said before, if/when action is taken against the builders, I will almost certainly need an 'expert report' by my side. I now have the equipment (hydrometer and multimeter) to take any necessary readings in advance.

I would like to first try to complete the equalisation operation (am in regular contact with Victron) and take on board some of the previous posts but, even if the condition of the batteries improves, I will still have very little faith in the stability of the electrical system, particularly if the recent spate of tripping/shut downs continues. Not sure where Chris Gibson is based (Midlands?), but hopefully he would be able to help, or at least suggest someone more local.

Thanks.

Bob

June 13, 2012

I've read this thread a few times now, and I just wonder if the OP shouldn't hire an independent electrical engineer to perform a thorough check test and system evaluation. His/Her report could form the basis of any claim against builders, installers, suppliers, or even manufacturers. Given Chris Gibson's (Gibbo) experience, and trade, perhaps he would make a good independent choice, why not ask him directly?

June 12, 2012

Right. Did have a fairly small load on, but everything turned off now.

Monitor (reading 'I') has been showing amps going into battery as a constant zero today. That, I think I recall, is usually the case when it is also reporting the battery as fully charged; voltage reading (at absorption) is still showing 14.7.

Electrician at marina assures me what I am doing is not the cause of all my electrics tripping out three times this evening!

Bob

June 12, 2012

If you are taking current for other services on the boat (lights, fridge etc) the the charger just sees this as current being taken by the battery and remains in absorption mode. To get it into float, and then do a satisfactory equalisation, you should turn off as much load as you can, preferably all of it.

Certainly on our Mastervolt you can only get it into equalisation mode if it is already in float mode.

June 12, 2012

I just found 115F on the www, which is 46C

I measure temperature on the battery case as I dont want to put my nice thermocouple into the acid, so a safety marging is good.

I am sure the thermocouple would be ok but I try to minimise acid contact since the brand new pair of trousers episode.

Our batteries are also in the engine room but the battery box sits right on the baseplate which helps to keep the temperature down.

The downside of this is lower capacity in the winter.

This is one of many good descriptions of equalisation on the www:

linky

Forgot to say...make sure that none of your electrical equipment is going to get upset by the higher equalisation voltage.

dave

Have taken on board points about safety, temperature, and danger of damaging electrical equipment. Thanks.

Will be pursuing further equalisation as soon as I can, but it's amazing how long the charger is taking to move from absorption to float (where I understand it needs to be before I can start the operation). After switching off the charger briefly while testing the ('fully charged') batteries, it took 8 hours to revert to float. Another thing to confuse me!

Bob

June 12, 2012

I would suggest that no battery charger will ever do a full equalisation charge because the time required will vary between batteries. They should be done manually on a variable voltage charger and under continual monitoring for temperature, electrolyte level and specific gravity.

I go with the having another bash at "automatic" equalistaion with the charger.

June 11, 2012

Actually, this just might lead to understanding what the problem is, you then just need to "fix" it.

Your initially problem was due to severe overcharging, or maybe a random cell failure.

That is now fixed.

Your current problem is probably what I would call "degenerative undercharging syndrome".

It goes like this:

For some reason you leave the batteries in a part discharged state for at least a couple of days.

This might be because you use too much electricity overnight when cruising, and don't cruise enough to replace it.

It might be because you leave the boat unattended for a while without a float charge.

The batteries become a little sulphated.

Sulphation is an evil thing because it conspires to fool both you and your charger into thinking you have a 100% charge when you do not.

On charge the current falls, the voltage increases, it looks like full charge, the charger goes into float.

But.........

you only have 85% charge because some of the sulphuric acid is trapped as sulphate.

So now you are leaving the batteries less than fully charged all the time leading to more sulphation.

Next charge looks like 100% but is only 82%, then 80% etc etc.

Your hydrometer is the weapon to use here, it will show that your "fully charged" batteries are only at 1.225 ror 1.230 rather than 1.265 (or more).

You can remove some sulphation with a long charge, this is why liveaboards do an 8 hour run once a week, but if your clever charger goes into float too soon then this will not help.

Slightly worse sulphation can be fixed by equalisation!

Even worse Sulphation can be fixed by a longer equalisation.

For really bad suphation there are special devices available but most people believe they are snake oil!

So

Equalise the hell out of your batteries, you have nothing to lose (as long as you don't blow yourself up).

Improve them as much as you can.

Spent a few months taking hydrometer readings to learn how to keep the batteries fully charged and only then go and get some nice new ones.

You might of course learn that its easier just to get to 90% and replace the batteries a bit more frequently.

Don't feel bad, it took me five years to work this out and I am an electronics engineer!!!

(this might all be rubbish but its worth a go!)

............Dave

Thanks Dave.

Doesn't sound like rubbish to me ("In the land of blind.........."), and trying the suggested equalisation seems to have achieved a consensus. Victron say it's worth a try, too, and it's fairly easy to do with my Victron set up. I'm still at a loss to see how we might have left batteries discharged for a few days, as we are so rarely off the shoreline, but that possibility does seem consistent with the train of events.

So, I tried equalisation this evening, and a sample of cells showed, as a result, an increase in SG for some of the apparently weaker cells (e.g from 1.225 to 1.250), and also for some of the stronger ones (from 1.250 to 1.260 etc). Some showed no change at all. That would seem to support your comment that the equalisation does have some limited effect, and is thus worth trying again? Your previous post suggested a few hours, so maybe try it a couple more times? (the Victron automatically stops the equalisation after around an hour). Or is the idea to keep going until I get all, or most, of the cells up to 1.265 or so (if that is possible)?

Have also reset the Tail Current to 1%.

One other point: after equalising/hammering away at 15.8 volts for an hour or so, the charger returns to float mode, and of course is then at 100% SOC, but (under a load of around 10 amps), it then rumbles away at 14+ volts for at least two hours, before settling at around 13.5. Is that to be expected?

Bob

June 10, 2012

I am not an expert on these things, but might just qualify as a half expert.

You have a hydrometer and can take SG measurements of every cell...you are now in a very good position to work out what is going on!

I don't see strong evidence of bad cells here. As has been suggested, swot up on "equalisation" and do a big one, taking SG measurements every hour.

I would hope to see all cells getting to the same value after a few hours, maybe even a little higher than 1.260. You need to get an estimate of battery temperature for accurate results.

It is just possible that these batteries still have a lot of life left in them!!!!!.

..............Dave

Thanks, the battery suppliers also suggested the 'equalisation' road (though that won't get to the root cause of the problem, of course)) which I will be travelling next week, and will report back.

Bob

Interesting topic this, surely a boat electrician would have confirmed the cabling was correct or not and the right sized cables used when he looked at it (Re Gibos point), did he?

Probably of no help but to endorse the Victron equipment, I have the same combi (but 2500 inverter) and the same monitor, both have operated faultlessly, the batteries don't boil, I do have a look at them every couple of months to check the levels and have topped up the water once in 12 months even then they hardly needed water.

Regarding the table in the first post what was the amp draw (which is net of whats going in and whats being taken out on the monitor readout) at the various times? might give a clue about the possible overcharging

Just a general point but you have a very big bank, I know you can have a big one of you choose but I would have thought 500 amp more than enough especially as you have land line most of the time, just curious

Good points. Will get amp draw figures.

Why such a large battery bank? Same answer about almost all of the more technical aspects of the boat; we took the recommendations of the boat builder..........

Bob

June 10, 2012

Good question, but you would have to ask Gibbo that one. Clearly the final current after 24 hrs for good condition batteries will depend on bank size, but whether that diminishes as the batteries lose capacity I am not sure. My inclination would be not, since as batteries degrade there is likely to be more debris in them that could act as partial conductor between plates and therefore result in a higher final current. Just guessing though!

You should however put the estimated actual capacity into the meter, rather than the new capacity. You could estimate the actual capacity by discharging for a while from full, noting the AH consumed, then checking the rested open circuit voltage, from which the actual SOC can be fairly well estimated and hence the actual capacity calculated.

Makes sense to me, thanks. Don't know if all the same points apply to my Victron Monitor (600S), but am asking Victron for their response, and will let you know what they say.

Bob

June 9, 2012

Hi Bob

Please do not feel embarrassed. The discussion is of immense value to many other boaters who have similar or related questions, but have not asked them.

It is the minute detail this sort of query unearths that is of such value, and cannot be found in one place elsewhere.

I for one am grateful to you for raising the issue.

Thanks Brian. Nice of you to say that.

Bob

June 8, 2012

A lot for me to take in, but I'm getting there! Some responses below to the various points made.

The comments and suggestions about alternator use/regulation/testing, I understand, and will implement - rigorously!

Ref. periods on the shoreline (where we have spent the vast bulk of our time), some points of clarification on our battery care. It's sadly true that I believed uncritically the readouts from the Victron Monitor; I had, it seems wrongly, thought the whole charging and recharging routine was controlled automatically (and efficiently.....?) by the Victron charging and monitoring equipment. I will certainly not rely on SOC again, but it has never actually led me to take the batteries off charge just because it suggested they were 100% 'fully' charged; I have done so only to test their health every few months. The adaptive charging problem you explain, though, would certainly have added to any potential difficulties.

The only occasions we have ever left the batteries standing discharged have been overnight when (infrequently) cruising. As for 'using the boat like a house', yes, maybe on occasions, but only when on the shoreline. When using the batteries, we have been scrupulously (and increasingly!) careful with them, to a degree that others with a similar size bank have said is unnecessary. Yet (as a reminder), two new 810 amp battery banks seem to have been destroyed, one boiled and one not, in less than two years, with a total 180 hours engine use (first bank:150 hours; second bank: 30 hours), from new. The present bank has left the shoreline just once since their installation in late July 2011.

Re the synchronisation issue, I had understood (wrongly?) from the manual that the meter was resynched every time the battery was fully charged (in our case, regularly, on the shoreline), so I thought it should have happened regularly and automatically.

After the batteries were (I think!) fully charged at 13.4 volts yesterday evening and then waiting for 3-4 hours with no charge or load, I took the following hydrometer readings:

Battery Cells

1. 1.255. 1.255. 1.230. 1.220. 1.220. 1.240

2. 1.225. 1.250. 1.250. 1.260. 1.260. 1.250

3. 1.230. 1.230. 1.230. 1.240. 1.250. 1.260

4. 1.225. 1.250. 1.240. 1.225. 1.240. 1.240

5. 1.230. 1.245. 1.250. 1.250. 1.250. 1.250

6. 1.250 1.250. 1.230. 1.250. 1.250. 1.250

From your comments, these readings would seem to show some bad cells?

Thanks - hugely - for the time you have spent on this. I am slightly embarrassed, though grateful, for the amount of debate this has generated but, on a positive note, this does rather support my contention that, as the problem seems relatively hard to explain, it is unreasonable for the boat builders to deny it is their responsibility as a warranty issue. Priority now is to stop it happening again; I will post photos early next week (am having a 'battery-free' weekend in Brighton!), to show interconnecting leads. And I have now bought a hydrometer and a UNI-T ut203 multimeter..........

The battery supplier will be looking at the batteries next week; they suggest the charger might have been 'turned down' (by Victron) too much, to compensate for the earlier overcharging

I agree I will probably need an 'expert report' (and recognise the danger of trying to fix the problem myself.) Any suggestions?

Bob

June 7, 2012

Good points.

No, I did not isolate the batteries in between trips. So much good practice, to be learnt only by trial and error. That is why I invested in ALL the best/additional gizmos recommended by the builder, as far as possible to avoid the difficulties we ended up with. AND went on a course, though not (sadly) Tony Brooks'.

Oh for an Idiots Guide, to be provided with all new boats!!! I have a 22 page 'Owners' Manual', of which 3 lines are devoted to batteries.

Bob

June 7, 2012

The default setting of the Victron unit is for AGM / Gel batteries with a float voltage of around 13.8 volts.

With the wet lead type of battery you need a float voltage of 13.2

It would seem the the Victron combi is incorrect set up if you have a float voltage around 14 volt

Keith

Thanks.

Float voltage has gone down to 13.4, but it took a few hours to get there!

Bob

How dare you call me inane with your content free post "bring back Gibbo" how is that more insightful and helpful than "see a solicitor". The OP has a complicated warranty claim against the seller of faulty goods - the boat builder NOT any of the manufacturers. To that end Gibbo is no use, pontificating about bank wiring is no use.

So if you can't contribute anything more useful I suggest you keep your inane and asinine comments to yourself.

I repeat; the OP needs legal advice.

See a solicitor.

To dibble around with ill informed discussion will not help him recover his large financial loss.

If he wants to be better armed in his claim he needs a certified report by a qualified engineer who can inspect and measure not trite comments by you Arkright or idle speculation.

..

I am glad this is clear to you. The caution I would advise is trying to fix this problem yourself. You need to keep the chain of responsibilty clear if you pursue a fix from the boatbuilder. I am sure a solicitor will advise you thus. A letter reminding them of their responsibilities should focus their mind.

If there is an issue with the Victron or its configuration let the boatbuilder pursue that.

Yes, I would want to follow up the suggestions made by the more knowledgeable amongst you, but under (or by) someone well qualified, thus my query re somebody local to assist.

Have already threatened legal action, thus the £300 offer from the builders. Will still pursue Victron (again) under their 2 year warranty.

Thanks again.

Bob

With regard to the original overcharging problem, did you always isolate the batts when the boat was left unattended between trips?

For the existing charge problems I'd recommend asking your electrician to fit a 'Smartguage' battery monitor which is far more 'fit and forget' than the other batt monitors.

To learn more about boats it would be well worth going on a course from 'Tony Brooks Training' or he could point you in the right direction.

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

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