Teorico

There doesn't appear to be an option to edit the original post to this thread, so I've added the suggested additions below. As the list grows, I'll group them by address so that it's easier to see what is closer to where. - Preston Brook, Runcorn, Warrington - S&A Marine, Grappenhall, Warrington - Liverpool Marina - Preston Marina - Ribble Marine, Preston - St. Mary's Marina, Southport - Tattenhall Marina, Shropshire Union Canal - Frenches Marina, Greenfield, on the Huddersfield Narrow - New Islington, Ancoats, Manchester

I'm compiling a list of moorings and marinas in the North West that might have long term/residential or over-wintering moorings available. I know there are a dozen websites that contain this information, but I'd like a handy single reference to remind me what's where. This list includes canal and coastal moorings, so yacht marinas are included as I don't know exactly what type of craft I'll end up with. I'll dig through the vast list of websites I've bookmarked and update this, but off the top of my head, here are a few that seem to offer residential moorings. - Preston Brook, Runcorn, Warrington - S&A Marine, Grappenhall, Warrington - Liverpool Marina - Preston Marina - Ribble Marine, Preston - St. Mary's Marina, Southport - Blackpool?

Yes, I had considered whether the dimensions quoted were theoretical maximums or practical maximums. A bit of wiggle room is certainly to be desired. On the subject of East West transit via the Leeds Liverpool, I was talking to a knowledgeable fella (not a canal boater, but a good amateur historian) who sagely pointed out that the LL is smaller, on average, than most other wide gauge canals because, like the Calder and Hebble, it crosses the pennines! (I'm afraid this had not occurred to me.) So, in reality, should there be a dry summer (which seems to be the norm, these days) I would probably struggle to get across unless I was among the first in the queue. This brought home to me the difference between UK and continental canals: the continent have rivers wider than some of ours are long! No shortage of water for canal locks over there. Hence my inclusion in the spec list of a spar torpedo. There's only room for one broad beam on this network! The apparent lack of a reliable, year-round coast to coast route further south than the Caledonian makes me wonder about the emphasis I should place on inland navigation vs. the compromises I would have to make in accommodation. I can't go down to narrowboat dimensions both because of work needs and private interests that I wish to continue with. So either I compromise on a wide beam vessel of some sort, or just go the whole hog and do something like convert a 70' grain barge, and like everyone else, charter a yacht to satisfy my occasional urge to emulate Vasco de Gama. I'm watching a conversion being done at a local marina on a 75' barge. It's huge! But it doesn't travel. The owner hasn't even bothered installing an engine. When he works away from home, he has simply accepted that he leaves his floating house behind just as he would leave his brick one. Of course, that still leaves the problem of where to moor it! And that seems to be a whole new and complicated subject that I have yet to wrestle with :-( Thanks for the help. Lots of invaluable information and experience. My brain groans under the new load it now bears!

Looking again at barging.co.uk's map of broad beam canals it would seem that while 62' x 13.5' will get me down the Leeds Liverpool, it could present a problem on the Grand Union down to Leicester... however the other section of GU seems to be wider! Ah, choices, compromises, buggerations... why did the Europeans know to build their canals bigger? Oh well. The more we debate canal capability + accommodation + coastal capability, the more I think it's starting to sound like the FCN. Apparently one can get them in 62' x 13'. Problem is, having watched the DVD, the engine sounded extremely noisy (not sure if the microphone was just enhancing the effect) and the thing did seem to roll quite horribly in quite mild weather (yes, I know it's a barge, but the builder promotes it as seagoing).

Thank you for the advice! I have been doing some deeper research (cued by the responses I've had) and some thinking. I've also received a copy of the first three episodes of Timothy Spall's adventures from Peter Nicholls. I suspect Mr Nichols thinks I'm a Walter Mitty, an assessment several posters here probably agree with! The FCN 54 featured certainly looks an impressive bruiser, but upon watching the footage of Spall's open water cruising, I immediately wondered whether some sort of roll stabilisation system would have helped. Googling around, I have found no reference to the use of systems like the Flopper Stopper or other paravane stabilisers on barges. But could it work? The more I look at Dutch barges, the more I am wooed by that bluff yet businesslike bow. The replica one's not so much, but the one's with funny names like Ijsselaak and Waalschooker and Tjalk Hollandaise are drawing my eye. Perhaps there is hope for me, yet.

Thank you for the advice. It has given me much food for thought. Thanks for having patience with this heretical intruder who comes onto a canal boat forum claiming not to want a canal boat! I'm not adverse to being told I've got it wrong! Better it happen at this stage than after contracts have been signed. I admit I was more comfortable with the coastal and open sea design partly because that is what I am more familiar with and, by comparison, the aesthetic of narrowboats and barges (unless we're talking sailing barges) escapes me. So its likely my basic assumptions were influenced by prejudice. To return to basics, aside from ocean cruising and any other performance or construction factors, my accommodation requirements as originally specified were broadly as follows: - comfortable accommodation for two and at least two guests - owners cabin with double berth (preferably an island berth) - two guest berths, one a double (either by converting the saloon or in separate cabin) - two full heads with showers/possibly sit-down bath (do canal users call them heads?), one ensuite with the owner's cabin, one for guests/day/at-sea use - separate office space with good storage - dedicated workroom/onboard tool shed for DIY/maintenance tasks/hobbying - spacious dinette/lounge in deck house I presume I can get all that with, for example, a 70' or 80' barge conversion. In fact, I've seen the old grain barge Barmere that was moored at Spike Island and is now at the Ferry Boat Yard where it is being converted, and it looks pretty big, although I understand it won't have an engine installed. But it will definitely have an air draft far in excess of 6 or 7 feet, so probably wouldn't be much more mobile around the wide beam network than my power yacht would have been and, to compound the problem, would not have the option of taking the long route around the coast that the yacht would have (or would it? Would one take such a vessel into coastal waters? Perhaps on a good day, but with a job beckoning, I would need to make best use of all the available time and couldn't necessarily wait for a weather window). I hear and understand the recommendation to get a narrowboat, but frankly I doubt I'd enjoy it. Just too tight and not what I'm drawn to.

Richard, basically all the major UK university towns. Until/unless I get tenure somewhere, I'm by nature peripatetic. In the near term the conurbations include Manchester, Liverpool, Leeds, Chester and possibly Sheffield. Moving south, I need occasional access to London and Birmingham (but for that, I probably would moor up somewhere cheap and take the train!), Bristol and, perhaps, Southampton. And then there's always Edinburgh, but I would only take the boat up there if I was sticking around for a while. Working abroad (anywhere from Ireland to most of Western Europe) would usually necessitate air travel unless the contract was longer than a few weeks, but is not an option I can rule out, and thus am looking at the continental network, as well. As you can see, both coastal and inland would be used, depending on the destination. In between times, I plan to use to boat to explore more widely such as up the Baltic and around the Med: places I suspect most Dutch barge replicas are not often seen. On the subject of air draft, I just happened across this excellent page on barging.co.uk, so perhaps my google skills are warming up, at last!

Thank you Grace. I had not come across that website. Very good point about the air draft. Despite what others have suggested, I've done a ton of dredging and my eyes are bulging. Places which I thought would logically contain the relevant information on lock dimensions and draft etc., such as the Canal route planner, don't. Perhaps my google skills aren't what they should be. To answer the question posed by others: why take an ocean going design on canals? Because I'm not a fish and work on land! I also happen to want to take it across an ocean occasionally, and sometimes I work on the continent for extended periods, so it can't be a narrowboat. So, I need the canals to get to work (that thing I do because I don't have "wedge"), and if I'm to live in a mobile home as my primary residence (because I don't have the "wedge" to keep both a boat and a house, notwithstanding the half finished car in the front room) then it seems reasonable that I should ensure the design allows me to take it along. Thanks again, Grace.

Hello. I am considering having a large power yacht built for use as a permanent live aboard and am trying to determine the best compromise between the vessels dimensions (and therefore my quality of life aboard) and its mobility around the country. However, being fairly ignorant of the canal system (despite having been born in Manchester), I'm becoming quite confused as I try to figure out what's big enough, small enough or short enough to fit through locks and around obstructions. I don't care about navigating the entire network: this was never an option as the vessel will be ocean-going and is intended for cruising around western Europe when not parked on a mooring. However, my career takes me up and down the country, so I still need to reach those major inland conurbations that blue water vessels cannot, and the map at barging.co.uk seems to confirm that I could get where I need to go. Thus, I can state up front that I'm only concerned with the wide beam/broad beam network and the navigable rivers, which leads to my first question: are wide beam/broad beam terms for the same thing, or do they refer to different widths of vessel which are greater in the beam than a narrowboat? And so, the nub of my post: what is the optimum compromise between ocean cruising/live aboard comfort and canal navigation? The basis for the design can be viewed here on the designer's website. The essential stats are as follows: 64' LOA 61' LOD 55' DWL 13.5' Beam 3.5' Draft 36,000 lb. DWL Displacement 45,000 lb. Loaded Displacement In discussion, we have determined that the LOA could be expanded to 70' and the draft reduced to 3', but in my mind the question remains over the ideal beam. We've discussed a shoal draft variant with a beam of up to 18' or 20', but obviously, that wouldn't work even on the so-called wide beam network! So, is 13.5 too much to be practical? Too little? What's the maximum figure I could push it up to and still have access to most of the wide beam canals and upper reaches of the navigable rivers. Also, what is the maximum draft? There is a further complication: the vessel might be completed as a motor sailor and so will have collapsible masts, but what is the maximum height restriction for wide beam access, generally? Again, I'm struggling to find a single figure. Thanks