Ritchard

Read what I posted, a drunk chap on the roof first of all is not a threat, they have terrible balance - rock the boat and they would fall in. If the kid wasnt drunk and started threatening/mouthing off and then advanced on me and I thought there were serious risk of harm to me or others I would shoot yes. But like I have said before, once the chap had seen the gun and seen I was in no mood for his shenigans I am fairly confident he would be off like a shot for a new pair of trousers and to find somewhere else to hassle people. A shot gun at 55 ft (the length of my boat) if shot in the chest area would be unlikely to kill out right (with standard supreme game no 6 cartridges). It would be far nicer to shoot at his legs and stop him from being a threat that way. Anything further than 100ft would sting like hell but leave no lasting mark, yes I have been shot at that range. Not fun. Certainly a brown trouser moment! Of course within 20 to 30ft they can be rather messy.

I quite agree a kind word is always the first option, however as I have stated if someone; youth or not is coming at me, and they continue to do so after being given a warning and they look like a threat and that they could do some serious damage I wouldnt have any qualms about shooting them in self defence. Im hardly going to shoot someone for fly tipping - even if it does make me very mad, as quite simply they are not an immient threat to my safety.

Read what I have said Phylis, I have said that if I felt I was in immient serious danger with no other option I would not hesitate to use a gun to protect myself or others. Its not about looking 'powerful' to a group of children its about being quite clear that if I have no other option I would use it. Some chap said on another thread that he was once in the situation where a teenager was on his boat roof waving the boat pole around - if I were in the same situation and had my gun on board it would undoubtadly be in my hands by that point. If the lad then advanced on me or others and I felt the threat was sufficient enough then I would shoot him to wound. But in all liklihood as soon as the lad saw that I was armed and not your average bend over and take it wooly mitten liberal he'd run off for a change of trousers. There is nothing illegal nor irresponsible about that, its simply looking after oneself. However am I fairly sure that it would be tested in court, and knowing that I would still do it but be very sure about it. I plan to be a full time liveaboard, just testing it out at the moment. As such there is no gun nor gun safe on my boat atm, but I plan to have one on their once I have refitted out. I am quite lucky in that my shoot backs onto a local canal so yes it would be quite nice and novel to moor up and see if I could get something fresh for the pot

You undoubtly did the right thing. And I would probably have done the same, however my point still stands that if I feel that there is serious immient danger to my self or others on my boat I would use a gun. As for firing a warning shot, you are more than likely legally correct. But it seems fair to me as I would need to impress upon those whom are posing serious immient danger that I would use the gun if they continue to advance on myself/others on the boat. I shall bring it up the next time I speak to her, because I have a feeling that while it is illegal to shoot over the canal or from the canal (illegal as in it breech's BW bye laws), I think it may be legal to shoot from the none towpath side with your back to the canal. What happens on shoots where the canal runs right through the sporting ground? Firearms officers are more than happy to answer questions and clarify the law as it is not a simple black and white jobby with all the bye laws! They are more concerned that one is a safe holder of s shot gun cert. and rightly so. As for issuing me with a firearms license, I dont think that would ever happen - rifles have far more stringent controls than shot guns and I would need to prove that I have the land to use one (which I do) and jump through a variety of different hoops. Im tempted to go for one, but I think its perhaps more hassle than its worth - especially seeing as I do not enjoy shooting rifles

I broke BW bye laws unknowingly - which I believe is a £100 fine. Members of the public were more than happy to wait and actually quite enjoyed watching. And I think you will find that I have not stated I would use the gun to menace people I dont like the look of but rather to protect myself and those on board from immient serious danger. If youths are chucking house bricks Im not going to sit there waiting to get hit, I will stop them.

I had four interviews for my Shotgun Cert. and quite frankly I think the chief of firearms and my local firearms officer know I am not a threat to the publics safety. Using them for self protection is not frowned upon by the police providing there is no other option. As for securing the gun safe, I can weld a cabinet to the bulkhead - in a house it would be bolted. So I think on a boat it would be secured more safely. I have already asked if CCers can have gun safes and it is not an issue according to my firearms officer. And of course I know I need to reapply/inform them if I move the gun safe, its not more dificult to steal a boat than it is to break into a house and steal the gun safe. I'd imagine a stihl saw would be handy in both cases - of course the hard bit is finding a boat/house with a gun safe and then finding where the safe has been hidden. I must admit I was shocked when my firearms officer said they could be secured in a caravan....thankfully only static ones tho!

I did not organise the shoot nor the drive, and I was under the impression it was legal. What would you rather have us do? Wave them through? Like I said previously, every boat that passed seemed happy enough and some were quite interested that we were keeping another British tradition alive. It broke up the monotany of the journey for them I guess, a conversation starter in the pub later that day perhaps? We didnt have any complaints and they all smiled and waved, so Im fairly confident we didnt upset anyone

Genius. Absolute Genius! Until the kids get catapults that is... Gun safes have to be securely bolted to the wall and floor. I have already asked my fire arms officer if they can be fitted to a boat and she has said yes, which I'll admit I was surprised about. She even said they can go in caravans...

I have a gun safe at my parents house, I would shoot any burgler if I was in immient serious danger. I eventually plan to move the gun safe on to my boat when I do a refit out, I would still shoot if I were in immient serious danger. No I do not need to be armed, however that weapon is my responsability and I would like it under my control/supervision as such a gun safe on my boat is the only way to do that. Besides I have a canal that goes right past my shoot and it would be quite nice to moor up out of season and do a bit of rough shooting What do you class as a lethal weapon? A knife? A pellet gun? A brick? If used with enough violence anything becomes a lethal weapon, and if left with no choice I would shoot - knowing full well that there WOULD be an inquiry and that I WOULD more than likely get arrested, as such you can bloody well count on it that I'd have covered my arse and done things by the book and would have had no other choice. As such I would expect to be let off with it. Alas there was a farmer many years ago who shot a teenage burgler - he was sent to prison for quite some time, but then again I would consider there is a big difference between shooting someone in the front as they advance on you and shooting someone in the back as they run for their life! I agree that most on our shoot are not good shots, I however am rather good Even if I say so myself. As for meeting me on the canals, you have nothing to fear - providing you stay away from me rum!

Well there isnt much of an option is there? Im no good at sword fighting and missile launchers arnt available to the public I'd have a cannon, that could be a laugh, possibly fit a mast with rigging and sails too. And a poop deck.

We are actually quite responsible and a good laugh, you are more than welcome to join us for a day and find out what happens if you like Can I have a pair of fingerless gloves? They are quite handy when shooting

They would have to board my boat with weapons. Or a large group of them chucking bricks. Or alternativly be wearing a pirate costume! I not be taking chances with pirates, arrr!

A gun may be needed to protect oneself in any aspect of life, and yes I do like shooting birds - which may I remind you that more pheasants and partridge are bred every year and let loose into the wild than are shot each year... And I dont happen to have a gun to hand, funnily enough its locked in its cabinet There is nothing quite like a good shoot day, the challenge of high and hard to hit birds and the good drinking session that happens too

Yes I do agree as stated by Carl that BW bye laws state it is illegal to shoot off a boat. However as I have said countless times, if left with no option and myself or those around me were in immient serious danger I would shoot. Simple, illegal or legal. Whether or not I would be prosecuted, my safety and those around me means more to me than going to prison - because I know I'd have done the right thing, protected myself and those around me. Life of course. Im not entirely sure on that but I dont think so Matthew. I know for example that we have a current right of way through our current shoot. We can still shoot there and they have to stick to the path. I remember one year a load of cycalists turned up and nearly ruined a few drives for us because they DIDNT stick to the path.

You would have to be a distance of either 50 or 100 yds away - I cannot remember the exact number. And as Carl has pointed out, it is against BW bye laws and as such I am sorry! Alas we did not know at the time, and it was many many years ago. We didnt get any complainants at the time....but unsurprisingly people tend not to complain to people holding shot guns, so its not really saying much!

I think you will find what I said was that boats were stopped by runners, not firing accross the canal. I did indeed think what we were doing was legal - alas BW bye laws say not so, in which case fairplay, and I am sure if we had known then we would not have done it, with so many bye laws and laws around it is quite hard to obey them all - but we were obeying the fundlemental rule of guns - being safe. We are no longer on that shoot but one a little further up the canal, which has no drives backing onto the canal, just our wood where all the birds live I wouldnt be shooting at young people just because they are anti social tho would I? I would only shoot if they present an imminent threat of danger to myself or anyone on board. How does that condone it?

Im actually being rather honest here - I was intelligent until I started partying too hard, like I said alcohol and drugs are not good for ones intelligence!

Hmm, it would seem so. Thankyou for enlightening me, however the fact still stands that I would use a shot gun on my boat if I was in immient danger. It seems like you've been a shoot before then

I believe the right stems from the 'its for your own safety' mindset! The few boats that we did stop were always quite bemused and happy to see us shooting, was quite good

Because I like to shoot pheasants, partridge and pigeons As for Shepherd's Bush estate...I wouldnt even try and make a point of trying to defend myself their, I would run until I collapsed. That estate probably has more weapons than the MOD!

The point of Christianity being to keep the masses in fear and paying donations to a massive organisation that likes to fiddle with kiddies? Ok, ok - I cede that their may be quite a few decent ethical lesssons within the bible and other religians, but the organisation its self? I have no respect nor time for it, they were just a way of gaining power and influence over the populace in a by gone age when the earth was flat and the only way anything could be explained was 'god made it so'. We have science now. And thank God! As for me not being intelligent, nah Im dumb as two house bricks mate. Private Education (Salve! - yes, that is Latin which I know a little of) and University does that to most people. Damn those student parties! And all that alcohol! And all those drugs! Damn!

Or perhaps said yobs would find somewhere else to get their kicks and thrills? I wouldnt need many shot guns pulled on me to decide I might go elsewhere to wind people up... And to further enlighten you carl, I have just remembered that one shoot I used to be a member of used to have a drive where we stood on the canal bank and shot the birds as they were beaten over the canal towards us (runners were sent up to stop the boats for a little while). So your argument of the canal being a public place needs looking into - no doubt a BW towpath is considered public, however what about none towpath sides? It would fall to whomever owned the sporting rights of the land as to whether they wanted to press charges I would imagine. However, whats the score if your on your own boat in the middle of the canal....hmm, interesting legal stuff

Find my keys? I wouldnt be a very responsible gun owner if I didnt know where those keys are 24/7 would I? Hell I wouldnt be responsible if they were not kept upon my person at all times... Im all for talking and difusing sitations - its often the best way (as I found out while doing door work) however once kids are throwing half bricks and stones I think I can quite safely say that they are past the 'talking' and 'reasoning' stage! And attention seeking? I have no doubt that a few do, but believe me - by the time they are throwing house bricks they aint seeing attention, they are having a jolly good laugh at our expense. Well it wont wash with me mate. Sorry if that upsets you.

Indeed I must be because I wont bend over and let delinquents shaft me. Letting them get away with it doesnt stop them....turning the other cheek doesnt work...if it did Jesus wouldn't have been nailed to a tree. (Not only have I upset the anti gun nuts now, but I've also upset the religious nuts, go me!)

Your first sentence is more than correct. However does that mean I cannot clean the gun? Or remove the gun from the cabinet to take it elsewhere? I think not. And you can wave a gun around in your garden providing you have written consent from the land owner - I could be shooting rabbits for example, or I could just be getting the 'feel' of how I swing the gun. Its legal, not liked and liable to have the firearms police called out but it is legal. For example I have 2 acres of gardens where I shoot rabbits - people can see me from the road - it doesnt make it illegal. I believe the official figure if something like 50 to 100 yds away from a public highway. And funny how these youths now turn into children isnt it? I would judge it on a case by case manner, young kids 5 to 14 I would moor up and go confront them (unarmed may I add!) while those whom are 14 to 20ish I would most certainly arm myself if there was immient threat of danger. Popping down below and unlocking a gun cabinet would take hardly any time, as for loading it - I would more than likely have two cartridges in my pocket and then load if the troublesome lot hadnt dispersed upon seeing the gun. Im not advocating a shoot first and ask questions later policy...