Robin2
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Posts posted by Robin2
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Tug capsized and sank whilst towing a crane on Friday morning (12th Aug); one crew missing, two rescued ... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14505009
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oh I dunno
As you posted all those nice pictures for my benefit I have to say I don't think if you called into your local canal boat builder and asked him to build you a widebeam boat that you would come away with a boat that looked like any of them
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Hello Steve.
When the boat first entered the water, it only ran for about 5 minutes, at this point the stop (or go) solenoid developed a fault and was replaced under warranty. No wiring mods at this time.
The boat then ran o/k but turning the ignition switch off did not always stop the engine.
I presume the alternator was continuing to feed the stop (or go) solenoid.
A 'Stop' button was added to the circuit (press to break white ign feed to solenoid)
All of the above happened in the first hour of running.
The boat then ran for 2000 hours without problems of any kind.
As far as my knowledge of electrical circuits go. please PM me.
Heath Robinson from day one, then
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A mint-condition wooden top cruiser on a Bourne 35 hull with a good interior fitout and modern systems (diesel central heating, inverter, shore power, modern galley and bathroom) might be worth somewhere in the region of £25-30,000, depending on where it is. One in decent nick with a working engine could be worth £20,000 on a good day at the start of the season, but £17-18,000 might be a more realistic figure.
You haven't mentioned the condition of all of the wood, or the quality of the interior fittings or systems. If they don't require work, then the question is: if the boat costs £10,000, can the engine be replaced and the blisters sorted out for £8,000 or less? (Of course the other question is, does your budget run that far?)
As far as the blistering problem goes, the old survey tells you quite a bit. I wouldn't worry too much about the moisture readings, as they're perfectly normal for a GRP hull that's spent 40 years immersed in fresh water and been hauled out the day before survey. I'd imagine the surveyor put them in the report because they felt the customer expected them (and to cover their backside), not because they had actually learned anything useful from them. More important is the hammer test, as that would suggest that at the time of the survey, the blistering was mostly or entirely confined to the gelcoat, and hadn't caused extensive delamination of the hull. Getting the hull professionally peeled, washed, dried, and coated with epoxy is likely to cost £10,000+, and it's unlikely any company would provide more than a two or three year guarantee on their work. It's difficult to put a figure on how much it might cost to grind out and fill all of the blisters, it depends a lot on where it's done and by whom. Assuming a cheap yard and a combination of owner and unskilled yard labour, £2-3,000 might be a good starting point, but some yards might charge £5-6,000. Possibly the biggest variable in that is how long it takes to get rid of all of the blacking - I'd seriously consider getting the hull soda blasted back to gelcoat by a specialist.
The other part of the equation is the engine, and I suspect here that rather than waste money on an engine survey, if it's been left for as long as the survey suggests without running or maintenance, it's probably easiest to assume that if it's not scrap it will need a complete rebuild, and therefore a replacement engine+gearbox is probably a good idea. Engine+fitting is probably somewhere in the region of £5-6,000 for a reconditioned BMC (assuming the existing stern gear is in good enough condition to use), or £8-9,000 for a modern common-rail diesel engine.
By the way, where is this boat? If you did want to take it on, I know a good yard in Norfolk that could do all the necessary work, and I suspect could come to some kind of an agreement over the price. It may even be worth transporting the boat from the Thames or the Fens and back again.
If there's significant rot in the wooden bits, then it's well beyond economic repair, and probably worth a couple of grand at the most (assuming you can find somebody who wants to repair a hull and then fit it out from scratch).
After all that, would you buy it?
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How close to you is your local DHL or UPS post box?
Don't they collect?
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Why is does my google open a new page and open a new page on CWDF page when I click a link?
It never used to
Alex
I don't understand what you mean.
I presume you mean your browser rather than Google - what browser are you using?
What do you mean by "open a new page and open a new page on CWDF page" ?
What sort of link are you clicking?
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I thought it was unreliable starting once hot?
Tony
You are quite right. Apologies to anyone whom I have confused.
Mind you, I still don't see the solenoid(s) making a significant change in the system voltage unless the start battery is not so good.
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... Could this boat's value deteriorate rapidly due to its potential osmosis problem? How costly can it be? Sorry for all these questions, just need to get my head around this problem before I speak to the seller again...
At this stage I think you need to ask yourself a simple question "Would I mind if I bought this boat and then discovered that it was worth nothing, or worse, that I would have to pay to have it scrapped".
If you can't afford that, then walk away without any further consultation with the seller (apart from a polite "no thank you").
It doesn't matter how good it might turn out to be if you cannot afford for it to be bad.
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When they make widebeams why do they never make the gunwales wider (say 300 - 500mm) as that would improve the proportions enormously?
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If people want to correspond by letter why don't they just get DHL or UPS to deliver them. There is no need for an expensive postal system that mainly delivers bills and junk.
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Hello Robin2
Perhaps I should have said "red herring" instead of "guess".
Not sure the alternator is contributing during cranking.
Regards
Steve
Maybe I've got things wrong but I thought the problem was that the engine cut out after running for a considerable time?
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Anyone planning to transit central London should probably read this.
The usual television nonsense. Lots of footage of the correspondent and nothing else. Couldn't they have just posted his photograph and saved a lot of bandwith (and my download bytes that I pay for). These TV news things should come with a health warning "Move away now folks, nothing to see".
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Hang on, we've been missing the obvious solution
If we add 18" wide walkways down each side, we have made the boat up to ten feet wide and added two valuable promenade decks at the same time! Ideal for accessing the bow for lock work, for sun loungers, deck quoits, cruise romances
I reckon £50 for some decking and angle iron and an afternoon's welding.
Richard
And probably look better than the usual widebeam
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assisted by steam powered catapult,as were sometimes used to launch spotter seaplanes from warships
They still use them on modern aircraft carriers. I read somewhere they can launch a plane at flying speed (in 3 seconds I think) even with the brakes on.
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Surely that is what the government wants, there are no votes in funding the waterways. I am prepared to give NWC a chance and I do believe they will manage, it will not be easy and we all need to support it not just sit back and say "it will never work!"
Well we could put the same energy into getting the existing BW to work without running the risk associated with the charity.
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The title of the thread does not inspire confidence - nor the use of the third person.
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I'm fairly confident that the temporary pump was a lower pressue and therefore had a lower current draw and consequently imposed less volt drop of the system as a whole.
Regards
Steve
I think we need to get Dean to draw us a diagram.
The different fuel pump won't affect the voltage of "the system as a whole", especially with the alternator working. If there is a dodgy connection and the fuel pump AND the stop solenoid are both fed through it a lower pump current might matter. But this depends on the assumption that the fault is very delicately balanced between success and failure. I think that's unlikely, but it should be easy to test.
I had a somewhat similar problem on a car some years ago that was eventually tracked down to a chafed wire that was intermittently grounding on the chassis.
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Why would it look wrong?
I've never seen a widebeam that looks right.
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here we go again we are all doooooooooomed!!
I think we need to split the issue of the NWC in two parts.
I agree with your criticism of the doom and gloom merchants who never have a good word to say about BW or about what will replace it and haven't a single constructive suggestion to make.
At the same time, under the present legal framework the responsibility for the state of the canals ultimately rests with Government and politicians can be called to account if the system degenerates to an appalling extent. In effect, it doesn't matter how bad BW might be, the State is the backstop. After all that's how the restoration of the canals happened.
Under the new regime the Government will be able to wash its hands completely even if three-quarters of the system becomes unusable.
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Now let's explain whats happening in ''The Tube''.As soon as the tube end in the stove became red hot,the water flashed like lightening into high pressure 'Flash steam,'huge expansion,and its only way of escape is rearwards and out of the pipe,and thus whamming against the water outside,and shoving the boat along.When That PHUT has died away,water runs back up the pipe to the stove,hits the red hot end and the action is repeated. Next bit will be taming it and methods of stopping.To be continued bizzard.
I hope you don't think this is a new idea. The Nazis used something similar in the V1 doodlebugs (air rather than water, of course).
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i do wish we could give the new body a chance, before condemning it.
If boaters are busy grumbling about change and how it's all a con, whilst other interested parties are enthusiastically getting involved, we may find that we've whinged away any influence we may have had.
I suppose it's easy for the moaners though...A self fulfilling prophecy will just give them something else to moan about.
I don't think there is a contradiction in agreeing with Carl and with Peter Underwood.
I had assumed that the legislation was already through Parliament. If not then there is at least a possibility of lobbying to stop it.
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Work out how much it would cost to replace the engine and add that to the price before judging the value.
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Hello Tony
Here is the basis for my figures.
Readings taken from new spare parts which I keep for a Yanmar from the same engine family as that owned by the OP.
Start solenoid coil 0.3 ohms, about 33amps at 10 volts (typical during cranking)
Fuel solenoid pull in coil 0.4 ohms, about 25 amps at 10 volts (typical during cranking)
Fuel solenoid hold in coil 23.0 ohms, about 0.6 amps at 14 volts (typical during running)
The fuel solenoid is a "woodward" item; the hold in is energised from the key switch "on position" and the pull in is wired to be energised during cranking. There is no adjustment possible or indeed required; as when in operation the rod on the end of the core is fully withdrawn into the casing. The protrusion of the casing into the housing on the engine being set at the design stage.
Just checked the Isuzu web site; the 3CB does indeed have glow plugs which will increase the current flow in the common parts of the key swith in line with your estimate.
Regards
Steve
It's too wet to go measuring things on my boat, but I can't help feeling there is something wrong here.
Afaik on my boat the glow plugs are not energised at the same time as the starter.
And it defies logic to have a starter solenoid drawing 33 amps at the particular moment that all the power (about 140amps) is needed for cranking. 33 amps would be 23% of the cranking amps.
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It's obviously not appropriate for the forum to pry into your personal circumstances. However I would strongly advise that your first boat should be cheap enough only to use a modest part of your available cash - in other words, unless your house is worth several times the price of a new boat I would suggest buying a modestly priced s/h boat that has all the features you think you want, but perhaps needing a little TLC. That way, if you feel like keeping the boat a long time you can afford to deal with any problems that arise. Or if you conclude that it does not suit you, you can afford to sell it and get something more suitable.
All of this, of course, presuming that you have a survey done. I would be inclined to wait until I had selected a boat before finding a surveyor who operates in that area. I would also advise being there while the survey is being done so you can ask the surveyor questions.
I didn't use a solicitor when buying my boat. I don't know if other do. Buying a boat is more like buying a car than buying a house. I certainly would not recommend trying to match the timing of the sale of the house with the purchase of a boat - you will only feel rushed into a poor decision.
Wealth of advice in one place
in Living Afloat
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Presumably because he was more interested in Google finding his post than is using normal english. I suppose its a reasonable explanation, even if unpleasant to see someone trying to abuse the forum that way. I had begun to wonder if it was someone else posting under his name.