Robin2
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Posts posted by Robin2
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Yes, and the need for the back-end rail or back end rings was as the equivalent of the centre line loop on modern boats. That's the closest equivalent bit of a modern boat which fulfils the same purpose.
I am convinced about the rail - after all its just a bit of round bar riveted or welded to the boat.
However the angled brackets with rings attached require more explanation. For example why didn't they just put a short rail at each side if all that was needed was somewhere to tie a rope. Those brackets were designed for a specific purpose directly connected to the angle they were set at.
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I think the way to look at fridge options today is the cost between 12 volt and 240 volt, we bought a good quality 240 volt fridge A+ rated this still came out £400.00 cheaper than a 12 volt quality fridge. The way I see it is £400.00 could buy today 200 watts of solar panels. If those were dedicated to a 240 volt fridge through an already installed inverter then even through the winter the panels would have a pretty good chance of supplying the power required. Of course through the summer you're gaining lots of additional energy for other things.
Someone also posted elsewhere yesterday the recorded power usage of a fridge over a year and as the ambient temperature drops during the winter so did the fridges power requirements to quite an extent.
This seems to make sense to me.
A 12v fridge makes no economic sense if you are on shore power most of the time. If you are not on shore power and generate all your electricity with diesel or petrol the 12v fridge might make sense if it offered a sufficient saving of expensive electricity. However once you have solar panels your average electricity cost falls and so does the justification for a 12v fridge.
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Havent used it on shower, but have used Sikaflex on other jobs and it was worked very very well. It gets top marks from me.
Sika make a lot of products and I think some of them are silicone based. However usually when people mention Sikaflex they mean their polyurethane or polysulphide products. I think I read somewhere that polyurethane never lets go and polysulphide never ever ever lets go.
I have found the Evo Stik products variously called "Nail and Seal", "Serious Stuff" and "Sticks like Sh*t" (I think they are all the same) are excellent for glueing and sealing and a lot cheaper than Sikaflex. Evostik go to a lot of trouble to avoid saying what's in their product but I think its a polyurethane substance. You can paint over it. Note that "Nail and Seal" is not the same as "No More Nails" which is a very inferior product.
When I used Sikaflex I found that the whole tube went hard soon after opening even though I only used a little. The EvoStik products keep well - just the nozzle goes hard.
Silicone works fine as a sealant and glue provided it is not subjected to tension. And paint doesn't really stick to it.
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Some bits of apparatus are not made with one specific use in mind.
Very few parts are added to commercial equipment without there being a specific need and they will be engineered to the lowest possible cost that meets that need. (Eg read Gibbo's various comments about the new super-duper Smartgauge).
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Take a look here for a little bit of info.
I didn't realize fridges have digital control systems ????
The logical answer is also the conclusion I would draw from Gibbo's test - that energy efficiency is not as important as cost in a domestic fridge and is a far more important factor in a 12V unit.
Which goes back to my original comment - they are not more efficient simply because they use 12v DC - if they are more efficient it is because the people who convert them install a more efficient refrigeration system when them make the conversion.
It's a pity someone doesn't make an el-cheapo 12v conversion - I would gladly trade off high capital cost for lower efficiency.
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Here's PaulCatchpole's:
One for DC, one for mains.
Tony
Thanks for the photo. It looks like that is right beside the engine?
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Perhaps not. But it does prove that she loves you.
Unfortunately not even that is true
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Perhaps some kind person could post a photo of the earth connection point on their boat?
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OK...
Note that these 2 fridges have exactly the same cabinet, the 12V one is based on a LEC cabinet.
So the 12v fridge uses 30% less energy, and much of this is down to the DC compressor.
cheers,
Pete.
One swallow doesn't make a summer
And it's not clear that the Shoreline figure is based on the standard EU test.
And ...
... please explain why DC makes a difference.
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You tie the end of the side cloths up to the rings/rail.
Not a very good picture but the best I can find at the moment.
That picture is not very convincing - mainly because the topic of interest is these brackets with rings, not the bar that runs across the boat,
Also, there is a difference between the use you make of something that is already there and the purpose for which it was made.
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If I found our boat teamed up with a boat of gorgious models in bikinis, I'm sorry but as wierd as you might find it, I'm not letting them go ahead into a lock with strangers, and I'm not leaving them stranded on the towpath by themselves.
When I was 19 six of us hired a boat and thought we would meet a boat full of beauties on the Shannon. Alas, life is not like that.
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If it was one of the native crayfish, well done. They are a protected species.
If it was an American Signal, with red bits on their claws, you have broken the law. They must be destroyed if caught. See the EA web site for pictures of each type
I can't really tell from the EA pdf. The pictures are not very explicit. I think it was either a white-clawed or a noble. But that's just on the basis that I saw no reddish colour on it in the short time it was on the roof of my boat. Its body was about 70mm long.
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Agreed. However the interesting thing is that all the 230 volt fridges were less efficient than all the 12 volt fridges. No exceptions. No crossover.
Another broken finger edit.
I don't doubt your sincerity but I can't see how you can make that statement without comparing like with like. There is also the question of whether there might have been better 230v fridges or worse 12v ones that you did not test (for whatever reason). Not to mention the possibility that the examples you had might not have been typical of their types.
On the other hand if you can publish your methodology and results they would probably provide very good guidance for readers (including me) and we can put the question of the validity of manufacturers claims to one side.
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No. I tested about 20 fridges (I forget the exact number). A completely random mixture of makes and models. Some 12 volters were identical to some 230 volters but had been converted by (remember these people?) Batts. Some were completely custom built 12 volt fridges. Some were standard fridges that the manufacturer happened to also do as 12 volts. It really was a completely random mixture.
The idea of testing 20 random fridges as opposed to a certain 12 and a 230 volt model of the identical fridge was to get some real world comparative figures, on average, of what people were likely to experience in the real world, as opposed to some definite figures for just a single model.
Broken finger edit.
PS. I almost forgot. I had done the almost identical test about 5 to 10 years earlier (this would be about 1985 IIRC) and at that time there was almsot no difference whatsoever between a 12 volt fridge running from the batteries and a 230 volt fridge running from an inverter. Don't hold me to the dates, they are wild guesses.
It is hard to know what to make of your tests without knowing the types of fridge and the testing procedure. I would expect considerable differences between different models, but not so much between identical fridges with different motors - unless more than the motor was changed. After all there is no intrinsic difference between a 12v dc motor and a 230v ac motor - they both convert electricity into rotational energy and both are "theoretically" 100% efficient.
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Did you test the exact same fridge with nothing changed but the motor?
Clarify your question and I will happily answer it.
Then we can move back to the subject of your previous statement that the only difference is the inverter losses.
It seems clear to me - did you test two otherwise identical fridges with the only difference being that one had a 230v motor and the other had a 12v or 24v DC motor? And if so I would be interested to know the brands and the results.
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What?
I tested them. The 12 volt fridges were more efficient than the 230 volt fridges.
You said the only difference was the inverter losses, which is clearly wrong.
Answer the question I asked and stop standing on your professional dignity !
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The other thing I notice about the new boat is a much more pronounced tendency to move the back away from the bank when using reverse (even at tickover) to stop the boat when mooring.
Mine pulls in to the starboard bank and pushes out from the port bank.
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But then it will only work when connected with the Three dongle.
Tony
Yes. If you want it to work on another connection select the original SMTP server.
Actually it might work without being changed back if the other ISP is less picky than Three.
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Will need some more silicone sealant soon when tiling shower and wondered if any recommendations.
Have been using Sikaflex to date but its hard to get locally, so am looking for something else.
Looks like it may be Geo Cel.
Any advice?
Just want something that will last and do the job well.
Cheers
Frank
Are you sure that the Sika product you were using is a silicone sealant? If not you might be disappointed if you use silicone in place of it.
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I caught a nice big brown one in my tyre fender a few days ago - and put it back in the canal.
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Three allow port 26 which my email provider has enabled to get around this problem (not only with Three) but your email provider will have to enable this.
if you try 465 which is not disabled by Three then you will have to set Secure Authentication for Outlook to work properly.
The next step is to ask your email provider what other ports they allow.
If you set your outgoing SMTP server to smtp-mbb.three.co.uk and the port to 25 you should have no trouble and no need for authentication.
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Oh, there is another use for them/it - to tie off the bottom cloths.
I don't know what you mean by "bottom cloths" - are they the bottoms of the tarpaulins covering the cargo? If so it seems to me that the rings are set too high, and for that purpose would more likely have been attached to the side of the cabin rather than the end.
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I am probably (almost certainly) wrong but this is what I make it.
Power=T x w
T=85Nm
w=angular velocity
60rpm=2pi radians p/s
60rpm=6.28318 rps
1000rpm=104.72rps
P=85 x 209.44
P=17802 watts
1hp=746w
hp=23.86
Which means i was quoting kw (18) instead of bhp.Sorry for the confusion.
The way I calculate it is as follows (my earler calcs were wrong by a factor of 1/2
)2000 rpm = 33.3 rps
circumference of circle of radius 1m = 2x3.142 = 6.28m
M/s = 209.26
Nm/s = 17787 = 17.8 kW = 23.8 hp
Max Hp at 3000 rpm (assuming the same torque) would be 35.7
I'm a bit confused here. Are we talking about MPG or hours/litre? I can see that in mpg terms consumption will be lower at lower revs. However if I were to run at tickover for an hour I would use less fuel than if I ran at 1500 rpm but I wouldn't get as far and would need to travel for longer in order to travel the same distance as I would at 1500 rpm thus using more fuel.
Because fuel consumption rises more sharply than speed mainly due to propeller inefficiency the consumption per mile will be lower at lower speeds. A car gets a firm grip on the ground and only suffers from increased air resistance as it goes faster.
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No it isn't.
I ran a pile of tests on the two different types of fridges. I tested about 20 in total. The 12 volt ones were a lot more efficient. I didn't get as far as looking into why but can only assume it was something to do with either better insulation or the compressor itself being better. Whatever the reason, the reality is that the 12 volt fridges were more efficient.
Did you test the exact same fridge with nothing changed but the motor?
If not, what you are saying is that low voltage fridges are better made - and would thus give a lower manufacturer's average annual kWh consumption figure.
Your original comment was a criticism of those manufacturer figures. Ar you now saying that the manufacturers of 12v fridges publish more accurate annual consumption figures? Maybe they do!
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Inverters!
in General Boating
Posted
My Sterling inverter "manual" says "One cable is always best but, cable is simply copper ... ,so it does not matter if it is one cable or 10 cables as long as the square area adds up."