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hmallett
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Another video from me, showing how the restoration has progressed over the last 6 months or so.
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Another video, showing the section under restoration, from the air. Looking a lot more canal-like after all the recent rain!
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8 hours ago, tree monkey said:
...do you know why the barrels are floating mid canal?
I had a rough idea, but I found more information on the Shropshire Union Canal Society restoration pages. During the restoration, sumps are left in the blocks to facilitate pumping (work parties often start with a lot of pumping!). Because this first section is left filled, but will need to be drained to connect to the next section, the drains have been left in, with drainage pipe left in place as "chimneys", to raise them above the waterline.
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Dragging this thread back up, for a bit a shameless self-promotion, I walked the section being restored and you can see it on YouTube.
It might help put the pictures above in context.
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1 hour ago, magpie patrick said:
Flood management has a much wider scope these days, it used to be just a case of speed the water through and let it be someone else's problem - that's no longer true.
The things that I took from the article are that (1) people like caravan park owners were phoning CRT to ask them to open the sluice. But surely as Patrick says this needs to be part of a wider strategy - CRT shouldn't be doing this just because some member of the public asks them to. Who was in control of the flooding relief on the day? And (2) the sluice is located in a building that's not theirs, that has been deemed unsafe by the council. Given that CRT aren't an emergency service, it seems a bit harsh to expect them to put their workers in known dangerous situations.
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On 03/03/2019 at 14:05, Heartland said:
Nice to see the stretch of waterway as it is in 2019.
I was interested to know where this image was taken
It's the winding hole in Llanymynech, just to the west of bridge 92.
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Thanks, everyone, for your helpful replies. Certainly some food for thought. I like the sound of the Prickwillow museum!
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I'm hiring a narrowboat from Black Prince at Ely for a week in April. There will be four of us, all with experience on canals (but not canalised rivers)
I've got an Imray guidebook of the area, but would welcome advice on where to go and spend our time.
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Why would a new lock be needed though?
My guess would be that in order to avoid disrupting the A483 (which the canal is at the level as, and once had bridges over the canal), a lock will be added to lower the canal to pass under the road.
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I am curious how much more remains to reunite the un-navigable sections of the Shropshire Union route from Frankton Junction to Welshpool. Over time more and more has been put into use. After so more sterling restoration work the closed part deserves attention.
Ray Shill
How much more what? Obstacles? 2 miles and 4 furlongs of dry canal, and 4 dropped bridges. Money? Plenty. Time? No-one knows!
The Montgomery canal is still afflicted by Powys County Council with bridges that cannot be rebuilt easily. Its become a non starter in my eyes and is now arguably in worse condition than when I first saw it in 1972. Then there was a trip boat in Welshpool and that at one time was accompanied by a small hire fleet, now all that has gone and the canal is very overgrown.
An interesting waterway but with serious long term conditions.
I wouldn't say it's very overgrown. I would say it's consistent with a very low traffic canal!
Thankfully it isn't your eyes that count as I'd argue your statement on the cana'ls condition is fallacious, since 1972 two major road crossings have been reinstated and ALL the CRT owned locks have been restored.
That said, there is little doubt that restoration has stalled and despite an enormous amount of behind the scenes work it doesn't look like restarting any time soon. Blame Peter Walker, SoS for Wales 87-90, who turned down money that the EU offered to restore it in full.
Which 2 road bridges? The A5 at Queen's Head and the A483 at Llanymynech?
In my opinion parts of,the" Montgomery Canal"are in better condition than some fully navigable canals,The towpath is in exellent condition generaly,the Newtown to Berriew section has recently been upgraded .I have only been as far as Gronwen Wharf so far in the boat. As soon as the section to Crickheath Wharf is opened I will be back. I agree that the Welshpool section is underused,appart from the Heulwen boats .However,it is a most attractive walk.and a great asset to Welshpool .I believe that part of the problem is that a lot of the canal is in Powys .Any invoice for more than small change is likely to be more than Powys County Council can manage. The whole canal is a treasure to be enjoyed by walkers,fishermen,canoeists and in part by narrow boats.As has been said,all the locks up to the feeder are fully operational.I think Cart should have great credit for the standard of maintenance of all the bits that they control.
The towpath is great, and easily walkable right up until the last mile or two before Newtown.
My understanding is that Powys will only really consider restoration or replacement of bridges once the canal is navigable as far as Powys. I can see their point.
It is clear that the Montgomery(shire) Canal and the Llanymynech Branch of the Ellesmere Canal continue to receive restoration attention and the Shropshire Union Canal Society steadily restores short lengths to navigation. If a concerted effort is made then it should be possible to reunite the Welshpool section with the main national network. This waterway offers remarkable scenery and could well be another jewel in the waterways crown.
When these waterways were made water supply was an issue, yet with time the making of the Tanat feeder and the feeder from the Severn solved this issue. The locks that descend to the low point before ascending again to Carreghofa require a decent supply of water. It was clear that this was achieved with the supply from the Severn as Welshpool had a water mill beside the lock there that used the flow of the canal water to drive the water wheel!
At the current rate of progress, it will be a few years yet before this link is finished. It would be nice to think that more can be done. Whether it can be achieved through political assistance or a greater effort from the IWA remains to be seen. .
And, if there was a fantasy world then the CRT might also help, but as this is a real need, their help may not be forth coming
Ray Shill
At the current rate "a few years" is generous! However, progress continues to be made. The quarter-mile section from Redwith Bridge to Price's Bridge took years. The next half-mile section from Price's Bridge to Crickheath Wharf looks quite technically challenging (to my untrained eye). As far as I'm aware CRT do provide help, in terms of materials. After all, it's their canal!
Those involved in the continued restoration is still chiefly in the hands of the Shropshire Union Canal Society. If I read the WRG website correctly they have no camps on this waterway in 2016. If a concerted push is made the link from Crickheath to Llanymynech could be completed and with it a long length of waterway united with the main network!
WRG came a few years ago and worked on the Price's Bridge to Crickheath section. I think they encountered unexpected difficulties (such as a broken culvert).
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Why is there is not a single WRG workcamp on the Montgomery this year.
I don't know. Why not ask them?
I can accept that the nature reserve people have put up many barriers which is why I suggest that restoration past LLanymanech is probably stupid and the canal past there should be given to Powys council as a nature reserve and stop spending money to maintain a canal that will never see a boat.
On the contrary, if the restoration can be progressed as far as Llanymynech (4 miles of dry canal), then from Llanymynech the canal is in water all the way to the navigable section. Raise (or engineer around) 4 lowered bridges, do a bit of dredging and you've added another 16 miles of navigation, including Welshpool.
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Seems daft theyd shift it there when its not as far as I am aware a BW water yet, do they have a statutory duty of care for the in water sections?
Are you referring to the Monty? If so, it is a BW/CaRT water. They continue to maintain the non-navigable sections, such as the lock gate replacement at Carreghofa locks, plus works carried out recently on Vyrnwy aqueduct.
I was hoping that someone from WRG or from the Shropshire union canal society would be able to explain why a WRG workgroup could not finish the section from Redwith to Pryces bridge. Looking at the SUCS website the distance is 400 metres. Since 2008 200 yards has been completed. 100 metres per year!!! According to PETE's excellent Montgomery website there were 4 weeks planned last year but nothing seems to have happened. Why? This year nothing seems to have been scheduled. Why?
I think that probably the biggest issue is that one group wants to be solely responsible for any section it works on. Whether WRG would want to work on a section that SUCS have been working on for several years, I don't know. Whether SUCS would want WRG to work on a section they'd already been working on for several years, I don't know. You say that since 2008 100 metres per year has been completed*, but the canal doesn't get worked on in a linear fashion. In fact I'd say that until September 2010, none of the canal was completed. The good news is that since the lining of the canal started, a new liner material has been approved for use, which is easier to work with (bentonite is really, really heavy), the ground is slightly easier to shape (there were plenty of trees in the canal bed near Prices Bridge), and the work is moving closer to the compound (when you have to walk 200 metres for a cup of tea it all ads up). In 2012 some of the progress was slowed by having to pump thousands of gallons of water from the area that needs working on. I think (and this is just my opinion) that if the weather this year stays generally fair (because when it rains the canal holds the water) then by the end of 2013 there will be considerable progress to see.
Why have WRG not continued the work they did on the Prices - Crickheath section in 2011? I don't know, you'd have to ask them! I might suspect though that they found the state of the canal harder than they first thought though. I have seen a reference to the section they lined being a trial section of some 10 metres or so. My understanding though is that it was not a trial, but that they had planned to line 100 metres in the 4 or 5 weeks of work parties. Given how organised and experienced WRG are, I think that's an indicator of how tricky that section is!
* In fact, you've got your sums wrong, and the average pace is 50 metres per year.
I would love this canal to Newport to reopen, but it will probably never start, as i've heard about it for years. Also if it does start it will only end up like the Monty and take forever, unfortunately I don't intend to live that long so i'd rather more money was spent maintaining the system that's still in water.
I'd love to see the Shrewsbury Canal restoration under way too, but there are land ownership issues to face before they can even start restoration. The balance between maintenance of existing and restoration is one that there's no easy answer to.
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Firstly, sorry for the mega-multi-quote!
Have just been for a walk along the Montgomery canal at Redwith bridge. I live reasonably close so walk the canal every few months. The progress with restoration appears very slow. I thought there were going to be WRG work camps last year but if there were they do not seem to have made much difference. The few hundred yards between Redwith bridge and Price's bridge look as if they could be finished in a week with a WRG work camp and another section could be in water. I am sure there are valid reasons but when you read of the progress with the Hereford and Gloucester canal and the Cotswold canals and realise that the Montgomery does not have land ownership issues it is difficult to understand why restoration has not progressed faster.
As one of the volunteers doing the restoration, I'm sure we can all agree that we'd like restoration to be faster! Some background for those who don't know... From the Llangollen Canal several miles have been restored and are navigable, and have been for several years now. There is then a 1/2 mile section (from Gronwen Bridge to Redwith Bridge) which has been restored (by contractors) and was rewatered 2 or 3 years ago. It is not navigable (except to portable craft) as there is no winding at the end, and the plant growth is having time to flourish as a result. The next 1/4 mile section (from Redwith Bridge to Prices Bridge) is currently being restored by volunteers from Shropshire Union Canal Society. The towpath side was piled by the contractors who did the Gronwen-Redwith section, and all other work is being undertaken by SUCS. This includes towpath wall building, retaining wall building, towpath laying, creating an invert under Prices Bridge, channel shaping and channel lining. Because everyone is a volunteer, work parties take place for one weekend a month. During winter conditions for working in the channel are not ideal, so this year and last year no winter work was undertaken. So that leaves about 9 weekends per year to work on it. The current situation on that length is that most of the remaining work is channel shaping and lining, which is very approximately 50% complete.
WRG did some work on this length when work here started (a few years ago), but none since.
WRG had a canal camp on the next 1/2 mile length (from Prices Bridge to Crickheath, which lasted 4 or 5 weeks, in 2011. I don't believe they returned in 2012. I believe they encountered some technical difficulties on that section. Parts of seem to be basically built in peat, there has been some subsidence, and in one part the offside is basically missing! Personally I think it's big enough to need a contractor and big pile of money.
Of course money is always an issue...
is it down to some rare species or other, I was young when they started the restoration and I doubt i'll ever be able to chug to Welshpool. It is a waste, but when the existing system is not being maintained it's hard to justify opening more canal miles.
Floating Water Plantain is the main species that gets mentioned. I'm no ecologist, but I believe there have been many issues caused by its presence.
...just this winter CaRT have replaced a number of lockgates through the town...
Not just Welshpool Town lock, which won't see much traffic as it's an isolated section, but at least it's navigable. All lock gates or the two locks at Carreghofa have been replaced too this winter. These won't have seen a narrowboat for about 70 years! I only know of them being used by portable craft once in the last 5 years.
I have just looked at the waterway recovery groups camps for this year. Not one is on the Montgomery. I tend to agree with Laurence. Maybe the Montgomery should be re-abandoned and the Norbury to Newport section of the Shropshire union could be considered instaed. Very little of this is in Shropshire and none is in Powys. I may suggest that the bed of the Montgomery could be used to put the pylons for the wind turbines on, it follows the line that they want to go.
The Shrewsbury Canal has "challenges" too, like the first bit of restoration needing 17 locks restoring (assuming you restore, and don't replace with a boat lift).
With regard to Powys Council, I'm sure I heard that there attitude was along the lines of "we support restoration, but there's no point us doing anything until the restoration reaches the Powys border at Llanymynech". I can see their point! Anything they did to improve the canal would only affect the currently isolated section.
All comments my own etc.
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I would like to offer the Ffrwd branch of the Ellesmere Canal. I've only ever seen a few references to it in canal literature, and there's little to be seen on the ground.
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Maybe it's bad form to reply to your own post from 10 months ago, but...
The land adjacent to the lock, which might or might not belong to BW is now for sale.
Never heard of it referred to as Tilston Quay before.
It would be nice to think that a condition of repairing the lock could be made upon any developer, but I think that's wishful thinking!
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Thanks for all the answers so far. Plenty of research to be done...
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Hi all,
I'm trying to plan a week's cruising for some time in 2012. One of our group wants to do the Leeds and Liverpool canal, but there are two areas where I could do with a little help:
- We have always hired from Black Prince in the past, but they don't have any bases on (or even near) the L&L.
- We normally hire for a week, and prefer to do rings if we can, but I think that would be a challenge on the L&L!
So the questions are: are there any recommended hire companies on the L&L? I'm aware of Silsden boats, but don't know anything about them, or about any others on the L&L. Secondly, where would you go if you only had a week? We're used to putting in reasonable days, and we're fairly able (done the Stourport Ring, the Cheshire Ring and the Four Counties Ring in a week each).
Thanks in advance,
H
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The upper pounds do run out of water. Hopefully there's enough water in the upper pound that you don't run out though.
The lower pounds usually discharge excess water into rivers or other watercourses.
For keeping the summit pounds full, there's usually one or more reservoirs.
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Gronwen Wharf remains the limit of navigation, unless you've got a canoe, in which case you can do another half mile or so.
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Any sign of Mr Lees original plan done before he was employed by BW full time?
I don't think I've ever seen it. I'll ask some people who might be more likely to know next weekend at the SUCS restoration work party.
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While my initial reply may have appeared a touch flippant, I often think it's the only accurate answer I can give!
There is no single document or plan that I've seen that has all the answers, and when you speak to people involved in the restoration, they don't know either.
Have a look at http://www.britishwaterways.co.uk/media/documents/Monty_Canal_Conservation_Management_Strategy.pdf - that's probably the most official document I've seen about the restoration plan. If you look back in time though, you'll find plenty of examples of people giving estimates for completion. They've all passed. If anyone claimed that they could give me a completion date, I wouldn't believe them.
Other things to look at:
http://www.britishwaterways.co.uk/media/documents/Monty_Canal_Regeneration_Summary_Document.pdf
http://www.britishwaterways.co.uk/media/documents/Monty_Community_consultation.pdf
http://www.britishwaterways.co.uk/media/documents/Monty_Assessment.pdf
http://www.britishwaterways.co.uk/media/documents/Monty_Details.pdf
http://www.britishwaterways.co.uk/media/documents/Monty_Landscape_Archaeology_Assessment.pdf
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When will it be finished? I suppose the cheeky answer is "sooner, if you help"
There is about 4 miles of dry section between the current northern wet bit (at Redwith Bridge) and the northern end of the middle wet bit (at Llanymynech). The quarter-mile section at the north end of this is being worked on by volunteers from Shropshire Union Canal Society. This section was started about 2.5 years ago, and probably has a year or two to go. If you were to extrapolate that, you'd get about 64 years! Of course it's not that simple, and the honest answer is that no-one knows, because each section seems to be being considered individually at the moment. There are so many interested parties that the politics behind it all makes it very confusing!
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I'm quite familiar with Rednal Basin. Wile in some ways it's sad to see it neglected and unusable, in reality it's not accessible by car, so has very limited scope to be used by boats I think. Besides, the railway line that goes right by it is the Wrexham - London line (I think), so I imagine it's not the quietest place on the Monty!
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As I'm still passing this twice a day I should really get some photos of the current state to share on here.
One thing that hasn't been posted here (for those that don't know) is the Chester Canal Heritage Trust's website link - http://www.chestercanalheritagetrust.co.uk/ - they obviously pay quite a lot of attention to the Dee Branch and Taylor's Boatyard. Interesting talks they arrange too.
Montgomery canal restoration.
in General Boating
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Time for me to drag this thread back up to the top! After the end of lockdown I managed to get along to see more progress, including a walk further down to Schoolhouse Bridge, to see the preparation for restoration there too. Happy viewing!