Big COL
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Posts posted by Big COL
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And i thought i was being crude having a urinal fitted in the engine room and draining through the side.
Richard
You won't be the first not by a long shot! or a short shot, come to that.
HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYBODY. Off to the pub as you do, then a couple of days on the boat. Bliss.
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Chris
Boats that have gone to France have had a twin systems fitted, as over in France you can still dump overboard, it's not difficult to do. You have to fit two tee fittings in the pipe from the waste tank to the pump out fitting in the gunnel. The first tee is fitted close to the tank, the second tee is fitted as close to the gunnel as possible with a valve on the under side of the tee, from this valve you connect a pipe to the top side of the tee at the tank.You now have a straight through pipe with a valve in line and two branches off tee fittings one top one bottom. From the bottom tee branch you fit a pipe to the inlet of an electric pump and from the outlet of the pump fit another valve and then a pipe from this valve to the branch in the top tee. Opening and closing the valves in sequence ie one open one closed, and vice versa, allows you to use the conventional pump out system or your inboard pump. It's advisable to have a long electric fly lead off the pump so as to be able to control it from the bank side, and you will only need a short length of pump out pipe to go from your gunnel fitting to your plastic barrel.
I hope you can follow my description as I haven't mastered how to draw diagrams on this forum's replies.
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Hi Richard
Quote
Kerisine is parafin i think sold for house heating boilers it is thiner and cleaner than derv so burnes hotter
Unfortunately this is not true. see table below.
Comparison of calorific values - Oil Vs Gas
Quantity Fuel Heat content/unit quantity- kWh
1 kWh Gas (mains) 1
1 litre Propane (LPG) 7.113
1 litre Kerosene 10.35
1 litre Gas oil 10.85
I thought you were intending to work on your boat over the hols, hows it coming along.
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John
If you do not use a trap you leave yourself open to suffering odours in the hot weather as a bilge pump will not remove all the water in the tank. A water trap will prevent this from happening.
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Some very interesting points of view. Firstly this is not only applicable to boaters, when the derogation finishes all recreational vehicles are to be prohibited from the use of red diesel. Whether this will include generators run at public events I am not sure but to my understanding the only use of red diesel will be for agriculture, the forces and permitted vehicles on public services ie road gritting, and heating.
There have been some very conservative figures used in some of the examples and I suspect the extra costs will be far greater than these. Most heating systems will use more than 200 litres in a winter. There will also be a lot of boaters that will have the immediate extra cost of having to fit a separate tank if they wish to continue to use red diesel. The cost of red diesel will rise to boaters as the quantity being sold will be considerably less due to the fact that consumption will only be for heating purposes, marinas will need to raise the price so as to earn a reasonable profit for going to the trouble of stocking a product that has a limited sale, that is the ones that will continue to do so. The unknown factor is just who will continue to stock red diesel - you may find that you have to cruise some considerable distance to find a stockist. I would think it will be damn near impossible to find anywhere to fill up drums as C and E have recently tightened up the regulations for the sale of red diesel. I would imagine that once the general sales cease they will tighten the regs even more, so you might not be able to lug cans of the stuff down the towpath as you will probably be unable to be allowed to buy any to put into a can to start with.
The ones that are at the build stage are in the fortunate position of being able to have a separate tank installed, but you will still have to fill it somewhere, so you could still have a problem. Richard suggested having a tank or tanks big enough for a tanker delivery- he may be lucky in his area in that he may be able to get tanker deliveries of small amounts, but these will probably be 500 litre minimum deliveries. That equates to about 1/2 ton of liquid ballast which raises another problem - where to site the tank so as not to alter the trim too much.
To my mind there are too many unknowns to be blasé or apathetic about this situation, the one thing that isn't an unknown is that it will become more expensive to run a boat if this comes about, as it's always the public who has to bear the cost.
I think you may have underestimated the inconvenience that this is going to cause. My own boat has only one tank which was deliberate as my marina is a day's cruise in either direction from an alternative fuel point and it's unknown if any of these three will stock red diesel. There seemed little point in installing an extra tank for it still to be unused as I may not have any facility to fill it when I most need it, i.e. winter time when, although I am on the boat most weekends, I could see little point in cruising for two days just to stock up on red diesel. I will just have to see what transpires and then act accordingly but I have consciously already made the decision to bear the extra cost. I am fortunate to be in a position to do this but there are a lot of people who are not and may very well have to give up boating altogether and maybe lose their home, which would be a tragedy. Let's not be insular about this, the comment that the general public doesn't care is a defeatist attitude to adopt, have some feeling for the boaters that are going to find this hard - it may be their homes that they have to give up. There are enough of you living as full time liveaboards to know that this is true, we all know someone who is struggling to keep ahead of the rising costs to stay with their boats. This will be the straw that breaks the camel's back.
I have already signed a petition for this but the more petitions raised the greater chance of the collective voice being heard and the more chance there is of something being done or you can be insular and the collective voice will be a squeak.
To attempt and to fail is more honourable than not to attempt at all.
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Heating oil / diesel
I can see there is some confusion as to what is what with this subject, but as I understand it there are two grades of fuel. I am sure someone will correct me if this is wrong.
1= 28 second oil, kerosene, paraffin, TVO (tractor vaporising oil)
2= 35 second oil, gas oil, red diesel, white diesel,
The two grades are taken at differing stages in the refinement of crude oil when refining petrol. they are basically graded by their weight ie 28 sec oil is lighter or thinner than 35 sec oil, the lighter or thinner the oil the less of the oil lubricating properties it has left in it, hence the need for caution as to the applications and uses of the fuel being used.
The oils in grade one are basically the same but each type has varying characteristics TVO for example was an agricultural fuel and could be described as a dirty form of paraffin as when it was used, it burnt off with a lot of black smoke.
With the exception of TVO the remaining oils should all work on equipment designed to use 28 sec oil.
The oils in grade two are also basically the same but with the difference in their properties caution is needed in their application, it's safe to say that all the oils in this grade will run a diesel engine, but this is not the case when applied to heating appliances. Some appliances will operate on any type in this grade, this is because they are designed to work on the lowest type in the grade. Other types of heating appliances are not and you must follow the manufacturer's instructions,and also be aware as to what you are buying on the cut. Gas oil is not the same as red diesel although in the same grade and will not perform properly with appliances that should be run on red diesel. When you buy fuel on the cut you should ascertain what they are selling you as most sell Gas oil and not Red Diesel.
I am no fuel expert and this is a very basic breakdown of oil grades but as I understand it this is correct. If there are some experts out there and there are any mistakes in this then please correct me.
All the oils in both grades with the exception of white diesel have a discounted duty on them which will soon cease, hence the origination of this thread. When this happens they will only be able to be used as heating oils, and you will then have to run your boat on white diesel incurring very much higher running costs.
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Stuart
Heating oil or gas oil or 35sec oil is the same animal, similar to red diesel but not as refined and contains less of the additives that red or white diesel contains. This is why certain manufacturers of heating systems will no longer guarantee their equipment if gas oil is used.
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No a cord for holding a whistle is called a Lanyard.
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Time's marching on and the end of cheap red diesel will arrive quicker than you think. It occurred to me that the forum collectively could perhaps do a little to help the lobby for its continuation in the form of a collective petition. If a standard petition form were designed whereby each member could print off the form and collect names from each of their separate localities they could then sent to a central address and then be presented to the appropriate authority as a petition from the Canal World Forum.
I apologise to Jon in advance if this contravenes the rules of the forum and if so please delete it. If not then let's hear your opinions and try and get something organised. Otherwise don't complain when diesel becomes £1 a litre and you cannot afford to go cruising.
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Wynd lass
Thats ok but they will just move further afield out of view, into the country and on the tow paths.
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Lets call a spade a spade. and thats what you would probably end up hitting them with if it was your wife, girlfriend, mother, being assaulted and appealing to you for help. I cannot believe that anyone faced with these circumstances would not treat like for like and retaliate. I sincerely hope that none of you will ever have to put it to the test, its one thing sitting on a keyboard insular from any real life situations supporting the softly softly approach, but when faced with these situations fear soon raises another emotion self survival, then the Adrenalin kicks in and rage quickly follows don't be ashamed of this, its natures way of self protection. How would you feel after the event where you have tried to negotiate with the assailants and failed and your partner has taken a beating, could you live with yourself? and you will never know what they realy think about you standing by with a non-aggressive approach
I am not suggesting that we degenerate down to the level of these yobs, obviously we are all decent living people what I am saying is that there is a limit that decent people can be taken and these yobs need to be shown just where that limit is, shouting, swearing, wont hurt anyone but show any form of violence to me my family or friends then be prepared to suffer the consequences.
This is the way that I feel I cant help this, in a previous post I described my late father as a hard yorkshire man. He rigidly instilled into me certain values to never start trouble, but never walk away if threatened, as you become a target for the bully's, and to help those that need and deserve help ie the innocent ones.
It has served me well during my 57 years, but what is now going on in this country seriously worries me I previously stated that I sincerely hope that no one has to be put to the test but the way things are going I believe that some of us will be we need the old British bull dog spirit to be reinstalled.
Sorry rant over.
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Martin
Now you have decided that a controller is the right thing to use, have a look at Driftgate controllers I used one of these with my old boat and was impressed with the results that it gave, and the customer service was excellent. I would have used them on my new boat but as a sailaway it came with the beta controller.
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James
Very useful when two boats are going through double locks with limited crew, it allows you to only use one gate as the first boat in can crab itself sideways to allow the other one in, an the reverse for leaving the lock.
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I was going to buy one but I found that when the radiators were working the heat seems to get dissipated from the stove so you don't get that stinking hot stove.
Paul
What do mean when the radiators were working? You haven't gone and broken it again have you.
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Maffi
I understood that a multi voltage TV used an internal inverter to bring the voltage back up to 230v, is this not the case then?
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James
I wouldn't use Rockwool as sound proofing it has the wrong make up to be effective, its not even worth using as a heat insulator when you consider that there are far Superior materials available.
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Wynd Lass
You've gone and done it now, you've got me chomping on the bit, just reading your post. You're being too kind - must be the pacifist in you. I would do a lot more than you are suggesting, what kind of society have we become when eighty year old ladies are mugged and raped. designer drugs, more people snort a line of coke than the number of people that smoke but they're hell bent on stopping people smoking. It's a pity the same level of energy isn't applied to drugs and violence.
Parental control I hear them say, true - but have you ever thought who spends the most time with our children during their formative years. School teachers is the answer and when I was a child their hold over a class of children was amazing, but this nanny state has taken away any right of discipline in the schools so that they have no tools to command the respect that we would expect our children to show. It gets worse - now a parent cannot administer punishment in the style that we as children had to endure.
My farther was a hard Yorkshire man with strong family values and in my early years I was very wary of him, but when my own children were young I found myself applying very similar rules and values to my children. They are now two very nice adults, polite and courteous, and two good friends, so the hard line has worked for two generations in my case very successfully I could go on all night but I think the old adage sums it up.
SPARE THE ROD AND SPOIL THE CHILD.
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Colin.
You go out smashing looms up then ?
Hi John
Run out of looms, moved on to Amp/Volt meters.
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Hi Colin.
I would certainly not describe myself as a Luddite, quite the opposite I have spent half a lifetime as a design and development engineer but as such there has always been a constant battle to separate the real from the pseudo.
John Squeers.
Hi John
Neither do I but reading your previous reply brought a smile to my face as I got the feeling reading between the lines, that you tend to prefer systems that are tried and tested. I must admit I tend to be cautious with any new gadgets and usualy wait a couple of years for them to be tested by the public before forming an opinion. The Luddite label comes about from my refusal to own a credit card.
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Hi Richard
I purchased my first meter for my old boat for £150 when I said the price differential is minimal I was taking into account the time factor as well, I still calculate time even when fitting my own boat as any time spent doing something the long way round is wasted as you could have been doing something else with it.
Time management on a self fit is just as important as a commercial fit out unless its just a hobby an using the boat is of no real importance.
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John
The information gleaned from these meters is as you say basic, and the terminology reference meter is probably more accurate, as they are not automatic and do not manage the state of the batteries. This is done by the operator using the information to hand which is a lot more than you would get with a basic volt and amp meter. However they are a very useful tool to have, I have one installed on my boat and would not be without it, it allows me the choice of if and when the batteries need charging so as not to run low during the night. Although the information is basic, it is accurate enough for the use on a boat.
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Hi John
You sound worse than me and my wife thinks that I am a Luddite.
Battery management system probably better described as a battery reference meter, consist of one meter with scroll through functions depending on which system you buy and they are all much the same. It gives the following information.
1 voltage charge and discharge
2 amperage charge and discharge
3 Amp hours used and remaining
4 Time left in batteries
Number one is straight forward it shows the battery Voltage during charging and discharging
Number two is the same as number one only this shows the amperage for charge and discharge
Number three shows the Amphours used and Amphours left in the battery bank. When you set the meter up you have to load in the total capacity of your battery bank, the meter then uses this figure as the base for its calculations
Number four tells you what time you have left in the battery bank. This is calculated by taking the usage over the previous 15 minutes, the time scale for this is adjustable depending on the individual circumstances so the average can be taken over a longer or shorter period. In this mode, because batteries don't discharge at a linear rate, it uses Peukert exponent to compensate and to give a truer figure.
Most of these meters also have the facility to couple in a battery temp sensor.
With all of the information that these meters offer I can not see the point of using any thing else, the difference in cost is minimal and its a lot quicker fitting these than individual meters
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John
Your living in the past, and I am not being disrespectful, but most modern engines have twin alternators fitted with 45a/90a outputs a 60amp meter is well under rated.
This is why battery management systems have come to the fore, although the meter on these systems is actually measuring volts via a shunt and then recalibrated to amps,it allows far more flexibility than a straight amp meter. I also like to be a purist when possible, but unfortunately technology runs faster than I can keep up with, and I have to admit as much as I try to keep up with it I am slowly loosing the race. I probable like your self like to stick to tried and tested systems, must be an age thing .
Having said that you cannot buy EXPERIENCE. -
Dor
You could find one at head office collecting his redundancy package. When all the hands on knowledge has been disposed of and all that's left is managers managing under managers what then?
This seems to be a common trend in industry today, since the privatisation of the utilty services most of the installations and maintenance is done by contractors, in the event of an emergency it appears they have very little idea where the services actually run, as the engineers that did were all made redundant A friend of mine who still works for one of the utility services was complaing bitterly about this situation. It appears that BW is going the same route but then we are not privy to all the facts
Battery Chain
in Boat Equipment
Posted
I have been on my boat for a few days attending to some routine maintenance which included checking the levels in the batteries. There are four 125amp hour batteries in the bank, and it has become noticeable that the only ones that ever need water are the same two batteries. All the batteries were new at the same time and are only two years old, the two that require water are the ones nearest to where the charging lead connects. I know it should not make the slightest difference where the charging lead connects but it seems odd that these are the only ones that ever need attention, it also seems progressive - the first one takes more than the second one. All connections are tight and the draw off for the combi inverter is on the last battery in the bank. It appears that there is a chain effect here starting from the most used going on to the least used.
It is a fair assumption that in a battery bank one of the batteries will lead due to the fact that they will have varying voltages when fully charged, but this lead must interchange between the batteries, as the voltages in each battery change during discharge. I intend to check them with a high discharge tester because the plates in the two batteries in question look a little sad. As a qualified eletrician I should probably not be asking this question but DC battery banks act in peculiar ways
The question is - Is this a common occurrence in battery banks and if so why?