Big COL
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Posts posted by Big COL
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Yes Col
I know on the charger you are right, but if you switch on a kettle or cooker the load will be there and it needs some bypass to hold it back till the gen is up to power . not everything can go through a inverter unless you have a bank of 3 or 4 joined together. i have wired the cooker heater and several other bits together so they can only be used if the gen is running or land line is present. with the exception of one ring on the cooker and that can only be used through the inverter.
Richard
Are you saying that you have two independent mains supplies to the cooker? One from the Genny/shore power and the other from the inverter.
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Not true Richard, the inverter will not switch from inverter into charge mode until it senses a mains voltage. So the gen-set will be starting off load.
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Dear All,
Ok - now we've moved to a lovely cheap mooring we've not got a shoreline, I've got some batteries being added and some really good wiring being done. BUT
I've not got a generator at the moment, we are living using batteries and solar panels.
I want to get a generator with an automatic start and have something like this wired up, is it possible?
BATTERIES ---> INVERTER ---> 240V
^ ^
| (power)
(charge^) !
SOLAR PANELS !
ENGINE !
GENERATOR ------------------------!
Here's how it would work - the 240volts would say "Is there anything coming through the invertor?", if not it would start the generator to provide 240v and put charge into the batteries for a set time say 2 hours and then switch back to the inverter.
Hope that makes sense
That way you'd have constant 240v.
Paul
Is your inverter a combi, or just a straight inverter with a separate battery charger?
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Andy
Not wicks, B&Q and the like, an independent plumbers merchant plumbing goods only, someone who is prepared to do some leg work. Somebody makes them as you have seen them, so there available, pity you are not near MK I could recommend someone.
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Luckily we got a berth in Sawley marina and have really enjoyed our time so far 18 months have passed and no incidents or accidents it has a RYA society award and justly deserves it for it is well run and policed by the staff some of whom live on boats in the marina.The situation is good close to the M1 and the cruising routes are varied,Trent,Soar,Trent and Mersey,Erawash Canal,so we might be paying a high price but we get everything we need and no money grabbing landlords, also i have heard of boaters moored on canal towpaths paying higher rents than we do! so you pays your money and makes your choice.Bear in mind tho that when the music stops you must find a chair in otherwords moorings are running out as more and more boats go on the water every week.
Chris
You are the first person that has had a good word for Sawley marina. It is constantly being criticised on other canal web sites, even more since BW took over, I have visited Sawley but have never moored there, so I can not comment.
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Chris
Duck, Incoming.
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David and Heather
Thats exactly the way it used to be done, a lot of boaters still prefer to do it this way. There can be no accidents this way, you remove one incoming supply(shoreline) and replace it with another (genny). Using a changeover switch allows you to hard wire both supplies into the switch. as you select from one position to the other, it switches the supplies, it saves you having to pull plugs out and put plugs in, plus you can leave the shoreline connected to the boat while you need to use the genny. Its just a convenience.
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Colin I am not on the boat and don't actually have the instruction manual to hand. I seem to recall it contains a schematic drawing which refers to the "AC in" terminals and says words to the effect of "AC in from shorline or genny" I don't recall any mention of splitting these supplies beforehand. In all honestly though the booklet is pretty dreadful reading and perhaps I have therefore misunderstood it. As I said I am still fitting out and will take your advice anyway.
David and Julie
AC in from shoreline OR genny, OR being the operative word, I suspect the definition of this means one or the other only, and not both together. To be safe it needs clarification. Which I have now done. I have spoken to Stirling and you cannot connect two separate supplies into the inverter. To use two separate supplies you must go through a changeover switch.
They have a new model comming out that will have two sets of connections, one for shoreline and one for genny supply, the inverter will then handle the changeover.
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Correct. While I agree Sterling use ups and the inverter automatically senses input voltage, if you have TWO sources of input you must ensure they cannot become connected together. e.g. plug and socket arrangement or changeover switch if directly wired. Our genny plugs into blue shoreline socket so can't become inadvertently connected to shoreline.
Stan
I have had a google for Sterling ups, all I could find was about power distribution, If the land line is in circuit and the inverter is in charge mode and a large load is switched on in the boat, it reduces the charging rate so the equipment can be used, when this piece of equipment is finished with, it steps the charger back in at a higher rate until it has caught up with losses caused by the reduced charge rate.
This to me is just power sharing, Victron have a similar system. Nowhere could I find anything where the inverter handles two separate incoming supplies automatically. It has been suggested that the sterling ups will handle two incoming supplies. Does anyone know for certain that this is the case. Or are some people heading for a big bang.
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Big COL wrote,
Obviously not like the Sterling inverter then, as Stan said they are pretty noisy!
I don't live aboard so have gone the 12v fridge/phone charger route, so I can turn the inverter off when sleeping.
I am also fitting the system suggested by Daniel, shoreline and standalone diesel genny both connected to the back of the inverter/combi unit, which has the UPS system to detect the incoming 240V supply.
The intention is to use the inverter if it is early/late or whenever we would upset other people and then to start the genny for washing/drying or battery charging if need be.
With two 240v supply's connected into the inverter, it is safer to take them through a change over switch first, it gets messy when two separate supply's converge.
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OH dear
Richard.
People that live in glasshouses shouldn't throw stones.
SCANDAL
It'll be in the Sun by Friday, News of The World by Sunday.
Do the honourable thing resign now, don't let them drag you through the mud, resign.
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We have a Victron multi unit. It acts as a charger, inverter, or pass-through for shorepower. In otherwords, it can charge batteries from shorepower, while feeding the power through to the mains circuit. It can also provide 240V AC from the batteries.
Ours is the small, 1.6kW unit. Bigger ones are available.
Seems foolproof, as long as it is wired properly - I had problems with the original wiring, sorted now, thanks to help from Col.
With this sort of unit you don't need a 240 alternator, just big DC alternator.
Alastair
With a large inverter and a 240v ac alternator you have a back up for either system which is what you need on a live-aboard that is using 240v white goods.
I lost your drift with a large DC alternator do you mean DC generator or AC alternator. The ideal set up as I see it to give you a back up system, for both domestic battery charging and 240v ac supply, is to have twin engine alternators one for starter battery the other for domestics, together with an engine 240v ac alternator coupled to a large multi inverter, this will give you a full permutation to cover the breakdown of any piece of equipment. (except the engine)
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And what are the rules....
You are liable to pay council tax if you live on a boat, if you are in a live-board mooring you will have to pay and you will have to if you are on the move.
This is fact, i have just checked with the rating office.
How many do pay?
I presume that if you are eligible for a discount on land the same will apply on water.
Water rates I dont know, but i suspect you should pay for it after all you are using the the stuff 52 weeks of the year.and in far greater quantities than a PTB. who will have paid it in some form at his residence weather it be by meter or other methods.
The problem with you Maffi is that you have this big chip on your shoulder that says everyone is out to get you, and you think everyone is jealous of the way you want to live.
This is not the case.
We all do and live as we see fit and as the time changes so may the way we live, i will be a live aboard when the boat is finished and will travel the system as and when i please.
But i will not try to avoid paying for the services i use, like refuge collection, street lighting etc etc, expecting other people to pay it for me.
Richard
How do you propose to pay for these services? Each council is responsible for the collection, if you are cruising through different areas who or which one are you going to pay? Pick one out of a hat.
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the bigger the better.
for example, Bubbles stoves recommend 35mm piping. I don't know where they do their shopping, but it isn't at a normal supplier.
spontaneous initiation of gravity flow will always have a better chance with larger bore piping. It is also important to avoid valves in the main circuit. I will have simple circulation straight through one radiator and two finrads, with no valves, on the basis that if I need to light the stove, then I probably need central heating.
the pipes will rise continuously to the top of the radiator, the flow will be down through the radiator and back to the stove through the 2 finrads. This will ensure that the hot water will continue to rise to a high point, and as it cools in the radiator it can drop down.
the other leg serving the calorifier will work on the same principle.
I like Alan's concept of a starter injection pump, but the configuration of the piping with an up and down leg before the radiator is not ideal. Ideally it should not drop down at all until the water has a chance to cool significantly in a radiator.
Chris
One small point, are you unloading diagonally across the radiator?
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Big COL wrote,
Whilst I agree with your comment Colin, I have noticed that a cooling fan occasionally starts on my Sterling inverter. I don't know that much about inverters and appreciate it may not happen with them all and maybe not at all at low outputs, but could this happen more with domestic fridges or freezers, as opposed to the rip off 12v versions? I have visions of the fan starting in the middle of the night and possibly waking you up. Could that be a potential problem?
btw, I am presuming when you said live a board you meant cruising rather than on shore power.
David and Julie
The fan can and does start at any time of the day on our Victron inverter, but it is no louder than a compressor on a fridge/freezer which also starts at any time day or night. It is not loud enough to disturb our sleep. Having said that it will depend upon where the inverter is positioned if it is in a bedroom then yes it is possible that it may wake you, ours is in a vented cupboard at the back of the boat. So the only problem really is positioning the inverter in the first place, and just how light a sleeper you are.
Live a board- cruising or on land line the boat is designed to do either. When cruising, if you have an early stop the day before and a late start the next day, say a 18hr stop over, then it can take up to 4-5hrs to recharge the batteries to 100% fully charged condition. This has been the only slight downside to using all 240v white goods, I think the recovery time is a little longer, but there are ways I can shorten this if the need arises, the way it is designed I have 160amps available for recharging the batteries, this has been regulated down to 90/110 amps for the sake of the battery life. All in all the system works very well.
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There are two posts both quoting 22mm pipe for a gravity system. I always understood that in a gravity system you should be using 28mm pipe.
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Then if im going down in a narrowlock, i just leave the rope on the ground as i operate the lock, just for good mesure, then i open the gates, climb down the ladder, and go to next lock.
Ah! Dan you'r the one that never closes gates then.
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Alastair
2x 1000 ltrs equates to 1,790 kg of liquid ballast, how would position the tanks, to keep the boat in trim. 1.3/4 tonne of constantly varying ballast needs some thinking about. 500ltr comes to 1/2 tonne even that needs to be positioned correctly.
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Hi Tomandsophie
John, Richard and myself have been through this many times, it seems non of us have changed our minds as to the answer. The link will take you to the last debate on this subject. Happy reading, let us all know what you decide.
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Richard
I am lucky if I can get as low as 40% by this time the voltage has dropped to between 10v & 11v
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Hi Big Col
Apart from the usual 230v bits and pieces, the high drain equipment would be a w/machine and maybe a drier.
The way I was thinking is that when using the w/machine, the engine would have to be running to supply the high demand. I was originally thinking about getting a big invertor, but I'm not sure if i'm pushing my luck running a w/mac. off an invertor and, the engine still has to be running anyway, so that led me to thinking about a 230v generator which they say will give 230v at any engine speed (I don't know how true that is) and a small invertor with some switch to changeover to the generator when it was online.
Maybe a big invertor is simpler - do you know if they will really run a w/machine, drier etc. ok?
Your point about being totally dependant on the genny is a very good one - I hadn't considered that.
JonA
We run a washer dryer through an inverter, I also have twin alternators and an engine mounted 240v system. The boat is designed to eventually become a live aboard and all the white goods are 240v, therefore I designed it to have some form of back up. Most the modern engines now come with twin alternators, for the small extra cost I would go for the twin alternators, how you design the 240v side of things only you can really decide as this will depend on how you wish to use your boat.
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If I am having my engine fitted with a 230v generator do I need 2 alternators as well.
I realise that one alternator will be charging the starter battery but can't I charge the domestic bank from a battery charger unit which gets its input from the 230v generator when the engine is running or shore power when hooked up.
A second 12v alternator seems like duplication to me but am I missing something obvious?
Many thanks,
Jon
Hi JonA
Short answer is yes you can. What you don't say is what equipment you will be running on 240v. If you have the output capacity to run both charger and all the boats 240v equipment that you need to run then it should be OK. The advantage of a second alternator is that you have a back up system to charge the domestic batteries, coupled with an inverter you also have a back up system for mains supply. To do it solely with the 240v generator leaves you totally dependant upon it. Should anything go wrong with it, you will lose the ability to charge the domestics and run any 240 equipment
Fuel alternative?
in Boat Building & Maintenance
Posted · Edited by Big COL
Breals
You are obviously not aware of the regulations concerning the disposal of waste, any waste collected from restaurants and the like has to be done by a registered waste collector, the same with waste oil from garages, there has to be an audit trail for the waste from its source to its final destination.
To obtain a constant supply of waste oil for other uses would be difficult unless you were a registered waste disposal agent, and even then the final use of such products is regulated as to their proper disposal.
Looking at your signature I am surprised that you are suggesting anything different. These regulations were introduced to stop all the cowboys stuffing anything and everything into landfill sites. You are advocating that we set up mini waste oil refinery's. where will the waste from these go I wonder?. Would someone lend me a chainsaw I feel the need to chop a tree down.