Big COL
-
Posts
835 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Content Type
Profiles
Forums
Events
Gallery
Blogs
Store
Posts posted by Big COL
-
-
Just to ad clarity, I should of quoted the whole phrase, "The mixer tap thingy on the calorifier"
I understand a temperature controlled mixer shower.
Opps
I know you know the difference, just wanted to point out the danger of plumbing it in the wrong way.
-
Hi
I am intrigued by this 'mixer tap thingy' is a temperature control valve.
Mixer tap / Temperature control valve, which should be plumbed in correctly. Depending on the type, you could end up being scalded if not. The cold feed is normally fitted so when you open the valve, cold water starts to flow, you then feed in the hot water by adjusting the temperature leaver/knob or whatever to your required temperature.
If you plumb the valve in reverse when you open the valve hot water will flow first and could or I should say has caused problems. So please check that you have it connected correctly.
-
Is it me? I'm a bit confused by the last 3 posts. All I'm suggesting is a gate valve (as per Chris Polley) in the feed to the calorifyer adjusted to bleed just enough hot water through to get the calorifyer hot, forcing most of the water through the skin tank. It doesn't matter where the takeoffs are. just like balancing a central heating system. Use a clamp on, or infra red thermometer to check plenty of heat is going into the skin tank. I'll be checking mine next week, I'll let you know how I get on.
My comments re the auto valve were based on the little experience I have of such things, ie they don't work for long. Big Col sounds as if I offended him in some way, didn't mean to, or maybe I'm missreading his posts?
SteveHi steve
Chill out it seems we are all out of the loop.
-
Hi
We used him last summer, had to wait for about 2 hrs as he was out on a job. It was a portable set up and he brought it round on a Little trailer and lawn mower tractor. I remember it very well as our prop picked up a foam seat and locked up solid, took 30min to get it clear.There is an entrance both above and below the lock we used the one below the lock,as this is where the tank is, hope this helps.
-
At a risk of getting shouted down here is my 2p
The feed to the calorifier should be taken off before the thermostat, some are fed using a T piece in the outlet hose from the Thermostat.
Now the return is the key:
I believe it should be in the feed to the skin tank from the engine as this just runs in parrallel to the main engine feed bypassing the thermostat. Many engies have these take off pipes already anyone remeber changing a bypass hose on a Mini!
If it is fed to the return from the tank to the engine ( as the OP is ) then it will bypass the skin tank.
Having said that Barrus use a system with two thermostats that does route the water back to the return to the engine.
see here in their brochure
http://www.barrus.co.uk/shirebrochure.pdf
J
Steve
What you are saying is probably true. Baldock asked an entirely different question, he asked for an automatic valve which can go into his calorifier circuit. A Drayton tapstat will do just what he is asking for, only trying to help.
-
This post has lifted the scales from my eyes, having got my hot water nice and hot, have been having some cooling problems, never thought that the water could be simply bypassing the skin tank! I would think the fix was to simply restrict the flow through the calorifyer rather than start messing about with thermostatic valves, just something else to go wrong.
Hi Steve
Just how much more simple could you make this? One valve 30min installation. What else is there, please could you tell us.
-
Baldock
Simple solution to this is to fit a drayton tapstat on the return from the calorifier. This valve is a mechanical thermal valve and will progressively close as the return temperature rises. The advantage of using this valve is as it closes some of the engine water circuit will be forced through the keel cooling and some will still pass through the calorifier loop until the set temp is reached.
Set correctly you should be able to use it as a share valve and do both the jobs required. These valves are not that expensive around £50, It is a straight through valve with compression fittings on each end. Job time 30 min start to finish.
-
Hi Baldock
Assuming that I have understood this correctly. That when the flow through the calorifier is stopped the flow will revert to the cooling system through existing pipe work. If so, 2 pipe stats and a 12v/ 24v mag valve depending on your electrics will configure to control the flow through the calorifier coil.
-
Will you do it if you know the RCD is not in perfect working order?
Will you do it if there is no RCD on the shoreline? (they are not mandatory).
Will you do it if you realise that *much* less than 30mA will more than likely paralyse a swimmer? (look it up on the net, it's well documented).
Bonding the earth to the hull will prevent the danger in all the above cases.
Gibbo
Hi Gibbo
It's your challenge I was prepared to do, you are now moving the goalpost
I didn't say I disagreed with your reasoning. Due to your convincing argument, I need to re-evaluate just how the mains system is configured on my boat. At the time of installation and because an isolation transformer is being used the shore line earth was not used. -
Hi all
I have been following this thread and have read Gibbo's web pages. As regards swimming in a marina while the voltage is raised From zero to whatever before it trips the shoreline RCD I will do this, no problem whats so ever. Providing that the shoreline RCD is in perfect working order.
Lets suppose without anyone being in the water and you managed to raise the voltage to 100v in the water, and the dropped the probes from a multi meter into the water what voltage or amperage would you expect to read on the meter?
Cock strutting and flaunting degrees mean nothing to the guy on the ground. I have seen thousands of so called experts flounder once you put a spanner or screwdriver in their hand. Give me people like Snibble
shit in the fingernails type of guy every time, he earns a living by what he knows and can do.
Personal dog fights do not help the members of any forum, amusing as they may be to those that can follow and understand, they mean nothing to the majority and only confuse a lot of readers.
PM me as to where I am going swimming, bring plenty of beer as I am sure there will be loads of people after a free beer.
-
Our Vetus certainly hammers drive belts. I would question whether the belts fitted on many engines are up to powering 90Amp plus alternators. The Vetus has just one 3/8inch drive belt. I'll probably have Vetus on my case again for posting that
Hi Catweasel
This probably applies to a lot of situations when the design is at its limitations. The problem with rubber vee belts is that when they warm up they start to melt bits start to stick to the pulleys and then go to a self destruct stage.
To lengthen the life of the belt I would use a Kevlar belt. the type used on ride on mowers and are capable of absorbing belt slip without destroying themselves. For this reason belt tension is critical to obtain the desired grip for the normal output, however should the belt start to slip the only thing that will happen is the output will fall off at this point you readjust the belt instead of replacing it if it was a rubber type. I understand the Kevlar belt has a chalk compound in its construction this is what allows the belt to slip without destroying it.
I await the experts to contradict this.
-
HI All
Has anyone checked the marina at Billing Aquadrome this is a huge marina and has visitors moorings. Although a lot of visitors just get lost among the other boats. Just a thought as I haven't seen Billing being mentioned.
-
Hello Carrie
Gary and I were referring to skirting rads as the sole source of heat. If you have an sf stove in your lounge area then this alone will very likely be adequate even without the rads. The problem comes in those areas of the boat which your sf stove cannot reach, typically the bedroom if it's at the other end of the boat, where you need to rely on rads. It is in these circumstances, where they are the sole source, that they may be inadequate unless perhaps they are run around every inch of the floor which is almost certainly impractical. Typically they run down just part of one side of a room.
At least this is my experience on one boat which had no sf stove so that these rads were the sole source of heat. And that was in October when although chilly at night, the weather hadn't yet sunk to winter temperatures. Gary's view will be more weighty as I presume he has seen these things on a number of installations.
It's a trade off between saving space and being warm. For a liveaboard the former is clearly crucial and finrads increase usable space, but I see little point in having rads that are inadequate and consequently never get the areas of the boat which you wish to heat with them up to the required temperature.
regards
Steve
This is pure conjecture, and mostly incorrect. Finrads or wall mounted panel rads, if the heat source isn't there in sufficient quantity in the first instance then neither will make the boat warm. This is where the mistakes are made, stoves are great for radiant space heating, but not so good for central heating boilers.
Do the job properly and calculate the heat requirement including expected losses then either type of rads will serve the purpose. To say finrads are inadequate is rubbish, sized and installed correctly they are better than panel rads. The heat distribution from finrads is even, and starts where you want the heat - at the lowest point.
Our boat will hold an even 21c with ambient temperatures at -10c from a heat source of finrads only. What more do you want?
-
A very modest and self deprecating statement.
On this post and life in general it usually bad policy to claim intellectual superiority over others.
It wasn't ever intended to sound as if I was intellectually superior. It is not in my nature to see myself as superior to anyone, in fact the opposite would be nearer to the truth. I continue to ask questions when I need information that is how we learn. As you seek to construe my posting into something that it was not, it may be for the best if I refrain from any further postings on this forum.
-
Colin.
Why all this 'pressure reducing valve' stuff. The Surefow pumps that most boats are fitted with have an adjustable pressure switch, it is an horrible contraption but it can be made to work and much improved if fitted with the alternative low pressure spring. I have also found that water systems function perfectly well at one bar (14 psi). The ratings on calorifier and other items are of course MAXIMUM pressures.
Much better to fit a good quality pressure switch and gauge as previous thread.
John
Mute point between between maximum pressures and safe working pressures, I thought I had clarified in my posting the reason for fitting a pressure reducing valve and also covered the reasons why. John you are renowned for keeping boat equipment as basic as possible, you have pointed out that the pressure switch is a horrible contraption, which is the very reason I have recommended protecting the calorifier against any over pressure instances occurring. Bearing in mind that this particular calorifier is low rated by modern standards whereby calorifiers are now tested to 5bar (70psi)
You may have found that 14psi is acceptable to you I personally need more than this pressure to run my shower, and to enjoy the means to have a proper shower, that's a personal thing. When I give advice I look at the facts concerning the particular problem and give the best advice possible, not allowing personal preferences to cloud the issue, if it means using a piece of equipment that is out of the norm then so be it, I am advising people who have less knowledge than myself and I take this into account in my recommendations,
Whatever I advise is something I would do for my own use if it be needed. In this particular case if it belonged to me I would protect it as described. Bones will have to decide what action to take, from the varying and obviously confusing suggestions that have been posted. I have tried to keep it as simple as possible and at the same time giving the maximum protection.
-
OK - the accumulator has a thing of 8bar on it, and the calorifier says it should be 20psi and not above. What do I do about this?
If the calorifier is labelled for 20psi safe working pressure it would be unwise to ignore this. To get over this problem you will need to fit a pressure reducing valve and a pressure gauge. The pressure gauge needs to be fitted after the pressure reducing valve which is manually adjustable. The gauge will allow you to see the pressure going into the calorifier as you set the valve, in setting the valve start at the lowest pressure possible and adjust the valve up to 20 psi. You will need to buy a valve that is adjustable down to a minimum of 1 bar/14psi. You can do this using a gate valve instead of a pressure reducing valve but it will require the gate valve to be locked off to avoid anyone accidentally opening it and over-pressuring the calorifier. You could remove the handle of the gate valve after setting, I personally would go for the pressure reducing valve.
This is assuming that your water pump is delivering over 20psi even if the pump is opperating at around this pressure you need to safegaurd the calorifier for any quirks with the pump. You can set the pump to cut out at 20psi but this will leave a short band for the pump to opperate in and this is also assuming that the pump has an adjustable pressure switch. Considering the low safe working pressure the calorifier is rated at, the safest way and to give peace of mind is to guard the calorifier with a pressure reducing valve.
-
I think that's about it, but why not baseplates?
Hi Maffi
Mill scale is only a problem when the steel is to be covered in paint. Mill scale drops off the steel after a period of time, If not removed before painting as the mill scale falls off so does your paint. The base plate is out of this equation.
-
Oh dear... whats a header tank and do I need one?!
are you sure Daniel... coz if it is then how come the pump kicks in when the level gets low... - and surely an expansion tank should be purely for expaning and not storing the water?
Bones
An expansion tank and accumulator are basically the same animal, Depending on how you install them, An expansion tank is normally used on a sealed central heating system, it is there only to take up the expansion of the water, if the system was of an open type with a header tank then there is no need for one to be used.
When used as an accumulator it helps to smooth out the cold water pumps pulses and if adjusted correctly will help stop the pump short cycling (cutting in and out )
For the simple question you first asked things have escalated a bit. If I was doing the job I would do it exactly as you described. Check first that your calorifier has a PRV (Pressure relief valve fitted) Most of todays calorifiers are tested to at least 5bar 70psi some are only tested to 3bar 42psi check what pressure your cold water pump delivers.
PS You do not need a header tank on your cold water supply, header tanks are used on central heating systems.
-
I have 15mm from my accumulator to the taps which carries cold water. I want to fit the hotwater this weekend (hahahahahaha). Do I continue this cold water 15mm pipe braching off for bathroom taps along the way and then attach it via a non-return valve(to stop hot water returning down the cold) into the calorifier, or do I need to do it differently?
Hi Bones
Thats OK I didn't even use a non return, the water doesn't get thet hot at low level. All that may happen is a small pressure rise on the cold feed due to expansion as the water heats up.
-
I think pickled & oiled is a is a good state for a drinking man to be in!
While we are on the subject Gary, Why not baseplates?
Hi Maffi
Boat Names
Equinox = The day the build started, if they can find the base plate.
Solstice = The day the boat was finished ( if you are very lucky)
Oiled & pickled = 1st excuse used, and how you will continue to be when on board.
Only joshing mate
However the boys are on stand by awaiting a small brown envelope. -
I know you know all that John, but others may not.
Excluding the earth there is no difference between the positive half cycle and the negative half cycle other than the direction of current flow?
So you need a reference point to check against. Earth.
Knowing what doesnt work does narrow the field. Now if you could help Colin get me that £200,000 government grant I'm sure between the three of us we can come up with an answer over a few beers in Florida!
Florida, £200,000, Three of us, Beers, and a problem.
What problem?
-
John
If you were checking polarity on a DC system then a diode/resistor across the pos/neg would be a solution.
However in an AC system you are checking to see if the neutral line is actually connected to the neutral connection in the power station three phase generator (light off condition tells you everything is working normally). This connection is strapped to the earth. It is, as you know, only when there is a fault that the live is connected directly back to the power station earth (or substation earth) (light on condition) I don't see how this can be achieved without connecting to the earth.
Mr Toads idea of using a test plug in a single socket would work if the socket was wired in before the consumer unit. Superglue securing the test plug in place would prevent the socket being used for any other purpose.
Just thinking out loud
Which ever way round you connect the Diode/resistor it would switch on & off 25 times a second. You would have to be pretty quick to see it go off and determine if it was switching off at the right time.
Just joshing!
Hi Maffi
Looking to see your baseplate hijacked by the AMPTHILL MOB, Just joshing
Not really my field. Having to think back to the day release days, is there not some way this could done using diodes, you can get full wave rectification, there must be some way to do this.
-
Has anyone thought of a way to do it without an earth connection ?
Hi John
Could you not use a diode with a resistor in series?
-
Not wanting to turn this into a political debate, but you must have realised by now that this government is feeding off the middle class. Stealth taxes keep being added quietly, good old Gordon slipped another increase on the red diesel duty recently. It's the easiest place for them to raise money from.
I Know of 5 families that have upped stakes and moved abroad in the last six months, there is a mini middle class exodus going on. Last one to leave the country switch the light off.
Steve
I didn't say I disagreed with your reasoning. Due to your convincing argument, I need to re-evaluate just how the mains system is configured on my boat. At the time of installation and because an isolation transformer is being used the shore line earth was not used.
Pre- mix thermostatic valve for washing machine
in Boat Equipment
Posted · Edited by Big COL
Hi Alan
You could use a 3 port tap stat to control the temp from the engine to the calorifier. These are thermal / mechanical valves. When the preset temp is reached it bypasses the calorifier coil straight back into the return.
These are used on stoves heating circuit to control the water temp in the calorifier,as the output from the stove is usually uncontrollable.
Big Col
.