TomIre
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Posts posted by TomIre
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2 minutes ago, Ray T said:
On horse drawn boats or butties towed from the mast and running blocks I'd love to see how the OP would make a cleat work here.
Does the OP know the reason for this set up?
Zero experience with horse drawn narrowboats. Frankly, I don't expect that to change anytime soon!😁
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1 hour ago, magnetman said:
Thread title has a blatant error in it.
It does! Oops. Not sure how to fix it though.
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2 hours ago, haggis said:
We don't find that. At the bows, the rope is attached to the T stud and after going round or through something on the bank ( bollard, ring, nappy pin, morning pin ) it is tied off on the extra cleat in front of the cratch. Similarly at the stern the rope forms a triangle and boats can go.past as fast as they like but Kelpie never moves in any direction .
The extra cleats are painted the same colour as that part of the boat and are unobtrusive but they are very effective.
I really like this idea of bow cleats and T stud. Any chance you have a picture of the cleats so I can see where they are mounted?
7 minutes ago, Loddon said:Anyone who uses a roof mounted line to moor a boat in any way is an idiot.
They should only used for boat handling
Bits on the gunwales however do work well for attaching mooring springs.
I use two centre lines to one fixing in the centre of the roof, these are fed through fairleads which work well.
I have only a small experience of all types of small craft having started boating in 1960. 😎
I guess I can't quite grasp the difference in having a centre post and two fairleads with just eliminating the centre post and replacing the fairleads with cleats. Same angle of pull just less fittings and chances of anything fouling.
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45 minutes ago, Barneyp said:
So your opinion on how best to moor a narrowboat is based on your experience of a different type of boat, not sure if by small boat you mean dinghies or boats with a cabin, but either way they are different to narrowboats.
Also narrowboats are generally used on canals (often narrow canals) which are different to the rivers, lakes, estuaries and sea where small boats are normally used.
My boating experience is varied so I often use techniques learnt on one type of boat on other types of boat, sometimes this helps, but often I am just using a technique out of habit and because it feels more familiar and comfortable to me, not because it is the best available way of doing things.
I've no doubt your suggestions would be the best method for you, but that doesn't make them the best for everybody.
Also the idea of 2 centre cleats on the roof seems similar to having fairleads on either side of the roof for the centre line which is not uncommon, it really comes down to personal preference, not everyone needs to do everything the same way, what works well for one person may not work for someone else.
Good points particularly about the familiarity and comfort. On reflection, I do try to do things on a boat in a very repeatable, consistent manner. That may be carrying over here.
I had first thought of fairleads either side if the centre post but then figured cleats where the fairleads go is just simpler.
My small boat experience is mainly in coastal cruising in power and sail boats under 100 feet. I've taught many courses on coastal navigation (set, drift current, dead reckoning), celestial navigation and boat handling.
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First, thanks for the mostly on point and thoughtful replies. I have less time for the newbies, feeble and hide bound comments but I suppose you take the rough with the smooth.
I do actually know horse towing was done from the centre post. Doubt I'll be doing much of that unless diesel gets much more dear though! Similarly, not planning on towing a butty which would call for cross tying to dollies.
No reason properly sized and affixed marine cleats can't be just as robust as T studs, centre post and dollies. I wasn't really planning on screwed in lightweight stainless fittings.
The two centre cleats will be affixed to the roof at the sides not the gunwales. This would also reduce/prevent the lines from fouling anything steer on the roof. This would also make spring lines effective when used with less roof fouling. Similarly, positioning the bow cleats just where the bow starts to flare out would reduce paint issues and make the cleats easier to reach from both the well deck and the bank.
In practice cleats are very versatile to use. Most mooring lines used on vessels equipped with cleats have an appropriately sized loop spliced into one end. This loop can be either dropped over the clear or taken ashore and dropped over (often with a cow hitch) over a bollard. In locking, the line would normally be looped securely through the on board cleat using a cow hitch and the line tended from the lock side.
In general, my opinion is cleats are more versatile, easier to use and more fit for today's purpose - which is securing boat to bank not towing. My opinion, admittedly, is formed not through extensive narrowboat experience but rather through 40 years of small boat handling and instruction.
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Prove me wrong - T studs at the bow, a centre post and stern dollies are all throwbacks. Mostlt to horse powered boats and/or towed butties. There is nothing they do that a well designed and well placed marine cleat can't do better. Two cleats at the bow (although one centre cleat would do), two cleats one each side in the middle and one on each stern quarter. All lines secured by using the stronger, much simpler to tie, simpler to untie and less likely to jam cleat hitch.
Nothing wrong with tradition but also nothing wrong with accepting improvements.
A horn cleat is the traditional design, featuring two “horns” extending parallel to the deck or the axis of the spar, attached to a flat surface or a spar,
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11 minutes ago, Tonka said:
Lots of boats have Alternating Current on them.
In this case it is Air Conditioning, not Alternating Current.
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For the sake of the argument, let's assume money is not an issue here. How nice would it be to have AC on the boat for those handful of hot days each summer?
I'll have plenty of solar and Lithium on my parallel electric diesel hybrid. And, during those hot summer days the solar has topped off the batteries by noon or earlier anyway. That leaves plenty of time to replace the energy used overnight by the AC.
Locating the unit is one issue I'm still mulling over. I think putting it in the bow locker is going to be best. Gas free so no bottles there. Engine bay would create an issue on running the ducting through the boat on our reverse layout to the bedroom in the front.
What am I missing?
Longish YouTube but it's what got me thinking.
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4 hours ago, Idle Days said:
We have an integral 200 gallon water tank and a bow thruster. I wouldn't want to have to cope with less water capacity and consider the bow thruster to be an essential accessory.
Mind sharing your "arrangement" with me? Stainless tank under well deck or something else?
I agree 200 gallons or more. Thanks.
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Bow thruster probably a discussion for another day!
We will have an electric incinerator toilet so no water required for it.
Agree an integral tank may be the way to go.
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Thanks! Did you have a bow thruster? Any other storage in the bow?
We are a gas free hybrid so the space is available but we are currently planning on a bow thruster and bike locker in the bow.
I know everything is a compromise in this regard. We may have to rethink the bike locker.
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Hi All,
We're in the design stage of a new build narrowboat with our builder! Exciting times.
They're specifying a 125 gallon/470 liter tank. We've asked for one quite a bit larger. 600 to 1000 liters. We plan to CC and it seems to me that water capacity is going to be the limiting factor for staying out.
They're struggling with finding a place for that larger tank.
So, those of you who have a larger tank - where is it?
My only thought at this point is to raise the well deck by a few inches to accommodate it. But, I think that might possibly make entry through the bow doors an issue.
Any other thoughts?-
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Thanks all. The monthly approach sounds like a good plan. I guess after that as far as care taking goes it's a hit or miss thing.
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Assuming this Covid issue is somewhat cleared up, my wife and I will need to travel out of the country for irregular extended times due to some family health issues. We expect this won't be necessary until late 2022 or 2023 - hence hoping Covid is under control.
Our rough plan is to work with one of the marina groups (like Aquavista) to have mooring privileges across the network which would allow us to more easily stop when needed. We would then have to fly out for a month or so and return back to our boat and possibly do that 3-4 times a year.
A couple of questions! Is this plan doable? Is that how the reciprocity arrangement works with these marinas?
And, is there any provision or service at these marinas to "keep an eye" on boats that are unattended? Not only for theft, etc but also for safety issues like leaks, etc.
Many thanks in advance for your input!
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We're probably six months away from having to make this decision. I hope to speak with someone who has used an electric incinerator by then. There are a handful on the cut. But nothing more right now. Stay in touch and let me know what you find out and I'll do the same.
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Should drain via scuppers unless they get blocked by leaf/debris.
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Thinking of doing away with cratch board and cover. Here's my thinking. I will have a full pram cover on my cruiser stern. So I will have a large sheltered space for muddy boots, wet dogs on bad weather days. Doing away with the cratch and cover means access on and off the bow will be easier. I suspect if I have a cover I'd just end up using it for "junk storage".
Am I missing anything?
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48 minutes ago, haggis said:
Storage - our loo tank is under the bed in a space which would be difficult to access if it was used for storing "stuff". We never know it's there !
Smells - there is no reason to have toilet smells on a boat. You just need to use one of the many available products in your loo tank. We don't use anything and we have no smells.
Bother - if you have a pump out system the only bother you have is mooring at a boatyard which offers a pump out service. You don't do anything apart from paying, the boatyard staff do it for you. You can use self pumpout facilities and that is a far less unpleasant job than emptying a cassette .
Don't know anything about incinerating toilets but presumably you have to remove the burned stuff from time to time.
It is really no concern of mine which system you install on your boat but I think it is important to have all the relevant facts before you make a decision. As you know, boaters always talk about toilets and you will no doubt get much conflicting advice on here.
Haggis
Definitely everything is a trade off - toilets included! And, I accept there is no perfect solution. To each their own and it looks as if you agree!
We're planning on having gas struts to raise the bed for "deep storage" under it in plastic crates. Winter coats, etc. Glad your's has no smell. I'm sure that is achievable, just hasn't been my experience to date. You do have to remove some powdery ash but very little is left and easily binned.
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44 minutes ago, tree monkey said:
How much will the diesel cost to replace the electricity taken from the batteries to burn the poo
No idea. Also don't know how to amortize the cost of solar cells charging a battery which supplies power as well. I've seen estimates of gas incinerator toilets at .50p.
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Haggis - I guess my point is that pump out has £'s costs as well as other costs (storage, smells, bother, etc).
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8 minutes ago, Tim Lewis said:
A friend of mine has one on his boat and reckons that it costs him 50p every time he uses it!
Can you find out how often he needs to run it? I'm thinking not every time it is "flushed" but I don't know.
Just playing but if you run it twice a day, that's very roughly £600 a year. If you pump out every three weeks or so, that's around £350 at £20 a go. So, for an extra £250 a year I no longer have to store a tank of waste in my boat? Doesn't sound all that bad.
8 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:The convenience and lack of personally handling your own waste is better with a pumpout and as practically all hire boats use pumpouts, the facility will continue.
Agree, but the downside (there is one to every system, I know) is that you have to fit a fairly large tank for waste storage. That room could be used for other storage and, at the end if the day, you are carrying around your own smelly waste 24/7. And, then find a pump out station and wrestle with bulky, sometimes dirty hoses.
Again, just pointing out that everything in this area is a trade off.
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On 21/04/2021 at 02:59, Mad Harold said:
I would like to apologise to the OP for this flippant response to a serious question.
My excuse is I was in agony with my back thanks to the stiff locks on the HBC and the C+H and eased the pain with too much alcohol!
If I am to keep boating,I am thinking of changing my mooring to one where there are less locks.
No apology is needed but thanks for taking the time.
My conclusion is - no real world experience yet. We're at the spec stage of designing a new build narrowboat. I suspect technology will change over the next 18 months and toilets won't be exempt from that change.
I know toilets are endlessly debated and the truth is there is no perfect solution. For me, the less "handling" and "storage" of waste I need to do the better. Incineration seems to fit that brief best but there is the energy issue for sure.
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A search did not turn up any recent posts on this - time to start a new thread!
Does anyone have first hand experience with this type of toilet?
I do understand the power needs. If I go this route it will be electric.
My main question is how often do you need to incinerate? My reading Incinerating toilet tests from Sweden seems to indicate that you only need to run the incinerator every six or so uses. I'm guessing this excludes urine? If this is correct then if smells are not an issue it doesn't need to be run every time the toilet is used. Maybe once a day and maybe not that often for a couple cruising.
Would be very interested to hear some real life experiences if they are out there.
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Ding Ding! Thanks Tony. Aquadrive it is.
Obsolete mooring set-up
in General Boating
Posted
Yes, correct now. Thank you!