Timleech
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Posts posted by Timleech
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Don't think many of them got this far, but reading that Wikepedia thing I alighted on this:
Junkers Diesel aircraft engines. Take a look at these bloody things, must admit I had never heard of them before.
I think that's the design used as the basis for the Commer TS3.
Just trying, feebly, to get somewhere near back on topic, I think Junkers did produce a marine version of the design in sizes down to two cylinders, which would almost have fitted into a narrow boat.
Tim
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Sorry, that is not a V twin, it is a parallel twin clearly showing two separerate con rods and big end bearings.
Well it's from the makers' manual for a Suzuki RGV250, which on page 1-9 says
"Engine type - Two-stroke, watercooled, 90deg V-TWIN"
http://www.suzukirgv250.co.uk/ServiceManua...n01/jpg_1-9.htm
From Wikepedia :-
True V-twin vs V-2
In a true V-twin engine, for example Harley Davidson engines, the two cylinders share a single crank pin (also known as a journal) on the crankshaft, therefore the "twin" nomenclature. Two cylinder, V shaped engines with separate crank pins for each cylinder are more properly called "V-2" engines, however, proper identification of V-2 engines is uncommon. They are frequently referred to as V-twin engines, too, although this is technically incorrect.[citation needed]
Ah, it says so in Wikipedia so it must be true
I must admit that I'd never been aware of that distinction, but it sounds as though most people ignore it anyway
Your original post was referring to V-twins, but were they really (according to your quoted definition)?
Tim
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Don't think you have quite got the point either Phil. Unless you have some form of supercharger which these bikes certainly don't have, two stroke cylinders can't share a crankcase and if there are 2 crankcases they are not proper V twins.
I am still trying to find out what the format is.
Look at
http://www.suzukirgv250.co.uk/ServiceManua...03/jpg_3-29.htm
Clearly shows a 2-throw crank and divided crankcase.
Tim
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That is probably the most likely answer though if they don't share a big end bearing it could be said they are not a true V twin, more a 'not quite vertical twin'.
I don't understand that contention. If there are two cylinders in a vee formation, then it's a vee twin, surely?
Some makers use in effect a 2-throw crank to try to get smoother running, but they're still vee twins.
Or am I missing something?
Tim
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I am glad the anodes are doing their job but I was a little shocked to see them so disolved when I had deliberately chosen not to use my land line in order to protect the against this very thing.
Maybe they're just too small for the size of boat?
Some builders, and indeed some owners, will fit the smallest & therefore cheapest available, I've seen 1.5 Kg anodes on 70' boats. They won't last very long if you do that.
Tim
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Beginning to regret starting all this, I think the 2 stroke diesel you are all thinking about is probably the Cummins. Beautiful all aluminium high revving engine with Routes Blower. The Commer was a pretty crude contraption with bell cranks and rods connecting the pistons to the cranks. The engine was usually mounted midships between the chassis members.
I certainly wasn't thinking of a Cummins 2-stroke, in fact I wasn't aware that they ever made one.
Maybe you are thinking of the GM/Detroit Diesel 2-stroke? That certainly used a ROOTS blower, as did the TS3
Here's a link to info on the Rootes-Lister:-
http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel/technical/TS3.htm
Tony, the stepped piston idea was very much 1950's DKW was one of them and I think DMW another. I am taking about a 100 bhp 250 bike racing last Sunday.And Tim, think about it, how do you have a divided crankcase with a 'V' twin, that's the whole point.
I wasn't referring to your motorbike engine (Suzuki based?), though I don't see why a divided crankcase shouldn't be contrived, more about the older marine 2-strokes such as Bolinders. I don't understand the suggestion that a V-twin must use a shared crankpin?
Edited to iclude a link
Tim
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But 2 stroke diesels don't have the problem of transfer ports and crankcase compression.....The fuel comes from an injector, the air is blown in by a supercharger......
Not always. The Bolinder, Widdop, Petter 'S' & other similar 2-stroke diesels & semi-diesels used crankcase compression.
Multiple cylinders? No problem, just use a multiple or divided crankcase.
BTW, it was a 3 cylinder 2 stroke John, the Commer TS3. I understand Rootes were developing a 4 cylinder version in an attempt to squeeze more horses from it when they were swallowed up by Chrysler around 1969.And of course not forgetting the Napier Deltic 18 cylinder, 36 piston, 3 crankshaft 2 stroke unit used in rail locomotives on the east coast mainline...
Rootes were certainly working on a turbocharged version of the TS3.
And Listers marketed a marine version of the TS3, the Rootes-Lister
which like the commer TS3 had a *Roots* (no 'e') blower.
Tim
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Whatever you choose, don't go for a square stern.
I had the doubtful privilege of collecting a boat with a completely square cruiser stern a few weeks ago, a 3-day trip at normal cruising rates which included coming down Cheshire Locks.
It was the only time I've really felt that a bow thruster might have been useful, as there was absolutely no way to steer the boat out of the lock tails, & often the option was to either bounce along the waterway wall for a while, or stop & push the bows out. Luckily the weather was good (cruiser stern weather).
Lots of room for socialising, but to my mind better for enjoying a drink in the evening sunshine after tying up than for boating.
Tim
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Durite (and probably others) do an adapter kit with all sorts of threads, it might be worth arming yourself with one of those (as well as the matching gauge)
Tim
Forgot to say, if there's a choice go for the 'SAE' adapter kit. Chances are that it'll be a UNF or NPT thead.
No guarantees from me, mind
Tim
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The oil pressure on my Perkins 499 (much the same has 4107 and 4108)is very low, but I'm sure it's a dodgy electrical sender. I want to replace it with a hydraulic unit, but don't know what size the engine fitting is. Does anyone know? It'll save me a long trip and a lot of faffing about if I know in advance.
Steve
Durite (and probably others) do an adapter kit with all sorts of threads, it might be worth arming yourself with one of those (as well as the matching gauge)
Tim
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Does his trading name begin with 'M'?
Tim
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Big horses. Kelvin k series petrol start diesels have the advantage of 21 (22?) brake horsepower per cylinder, available in 1,2,3 or 4 cylinder versions. (The single i saw said 21bhp) 'i think you'll find' (anorakish voice) a lister sr3 is under 20hp at 19. Sabb gg would suit a 30ft nb.
What's the Sabb 'gg'?
Is that the 2-cyl 'g'?
Singles were commonly fitted to boats around 30', 'Cheshire Plains' hire fleet & their partners in crime used them. A customer has a 40' boat with a Sabb single, had it for years & been everywhere with it & perfectly happy.
Not sure about 21 bhp/cyl being a great advantage on a narrow boat (unless you have only the one cylinder, of course
)The J2 is much more of a narrow boat engine.
Tim
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Hi David.
As a very rough 'rule of thumb' we can reckon on one ton per inch of draught for a 50 -60 ft boat. If you had a 15mm bottom you would have had very much more of a problem. I make that an extra 5.5 cu. ft. of steel. What's that?
Something like 7.8 Kg/litre.
Get your calculator out!
Tim
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Yes of course. I was mixing up ST and SR powers. In my opinion the ST is a far inferior (but more powerful) boat engine.
Agreed. So did a lot of people when the ST came out, which is why Listers brought out the Canalstar, basically (at the time) a reintroduced SR.
I know of one full-length butty which was motorised (30+ years ago) quite successfully using an SR2, it wouldn't win any races but it's still going.
Tim
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They certainly do, though I'm sure they've got smaller.
Drumsticks were always my favorites though, which I'm sure have got bigger.
Put a Lister SR2 in your boat. Cheap, indestructible, sounds nice, 20hp to satisfy the horse lovers and a bullet proof gearbox.
Best of all...air cooled.
Erm...Shome mishtake shurely?
I think you'd need an SR3 for 20 hp.
An SR2 would be more than adequate for the job, though.
Tim
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(The change from 10mm to 15mm base plate alone giving a 50% increase in cost in that area alone!)
Just what benefit is an extra thick bottom plate supposed to bring? OK, you'll never have to worry about it rusting away in your lifetime, but the same ought to be true of 10mm.
It's always struck me as being more to do with bragging rights than anything else
Tim
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the reason i came up with the idea of starting this thread is as follows.
I was working on my fiberglass boat and a couple of blokes were working on a narrowboat.
They told me of a liverpool shell that had leaked and Liverpool boats didnt come out to fix it after i suggested i was thinking about a liverpool shell.
I was told of another story where the bulkhead between the engine bay and cabin had a nice big bit of weld missing so if it rained the cabin was getting wet.
My reply was right ok but Liverpool boats have been in business for how many years and built how many boats?
My limited experience has been that LB has tried to keep their customers happy. Yes I've had a small number of their boats on my dry-dock for remedial work, in one case LB sent their own welder out to fix a leaking diesel tank, another time they promised to pay the owner for the dock and supply the paint for reblacking the hull (the blacking was falling off), I haven't seen anything really bad though there were one or two horror stories doing the rounds a few years ago. LB is a large-scale budget operation, they must weld up a few miles of seam every year so it's not surprising if occasionally something gets past whatever 'quality control' they might have
I've been involved recently with a boat from a slightly less 'budget' builder, one with a very pretty website, supplied fully fitted with RCD. The diesel tank leaked into the boat, a small continuous leak and severely whenever it was filled near to the top, and had clearly never been tested though they claimed it had (there was no test marking). Because of the rather odd construction it was quite a big job putting it right, the owners ended up paying out of their own pockets to avoid more months of waiting, & going to court to reclaim the cost from the builder who wanted to deny any failing or blame. They got their money back eventually.
That's just to illustrate that it's not neccessarily the real 'budget' builders who are the worst to deal with.
Tim
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Tim.
Are you speaking from experience here, it sounds to me like an amalgam of every bit of nonsensical canteen culture I have ever heard. I can almost hear the bubbles from the boats as they glug to the bottom of the cut.
Yes.
I've been repairing canal boats for most of the last 35 years, & from time to time that has included 'repairing' new hulls.
Tim
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Hi Anthony.
It just doesn't happen
Chorus from audience:- "Oh, yes it does!"
"He's behind you!"
Etc etc...
It might do, it might not. Depends on your luck. If there's a slag inclusion causing a leak, the leak may get worse rather than better as the slag works out of the hole.I have never been to a boat launching where there was even a trickle. Stan McNaughton of Liverpool Boatyard once told me not to worry if mine did leak a little it will be bone dry within a few days. The principle is that a pinhole in a weld will immediately begin to rust within the hole, expanding, filling and sealing it.
If it's a leaky diesel tank it certainly won't seal itself
He also told me that in the good old days when they built ships in Liverpool they would leave several 6 inch pumps running for a couple weeks. (that probably doesn't make you feel better does it).That's wooden or possibly rivetted ships.
Or was it when Stan built ships in Liverpool?
Just have a very good look at it before it is dispatched and make them sort out any errors or problems.A good plan, or if you're really worried get a surveyor to inspect it before you take delivery. Rather spoils the 'budget' bit, though
Tim
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Just had a look at the ad to see what I'm commenting on. First observation is that the're supplying the BW tug fleet (now there's an endorsement I wouldn't shout about).
The second point is, can someone explain how, in the photograph of 'bill' apparently demonstrating his modified billhook, he is reaching the prop from the front deck hatch?
That's because the boat (Barge?) is double-ended, with a hydraulically driven prop at either end.
I had the dubious pleasure of renewing a broken drive coupling on it a while ago, one of those nightmare jobs where you have to hang upside down by your toenails and work with your arms at full stretch, yet still manage to apply full torque to the spanner or whatever.
Tim
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Hi Paul - could you let me have the link to the Waterways World article - lots of people in the Wigan area remember Roland but dont know what happened to her.
Roger
I don't know what has happened to her, but here she was 40 years ago:-
Easter 1967, Poolstock
Tim
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So the bluff front end of a woolwich is better than a Nurser or Josher? I don't think so.
The back end I'd agree (though it'd be a toss up between a little Woolwich and a Ricky, IMO)
What I said was:-
"probably the best working NB form ever built, especially the stern shape."
I stand by that, as
i) I was emphasising the stern shape,
and
ii) The fore-end shape makes bu**er all difference at canal or even normal river speeds, and the Woolwich shape allows a significantly greater carrying capacity than the (admittedly prettier) Joshers shape.
Tim
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Thanks lads. Went off topic and started talking Technical B***ocks that went straight over my head. Guess you should have just said you didnt know.
Thanks to the early replies that at least attempted to answer my question.
Actually I did try, amongst the pseudo-tech stuff, to give some sort of an answer.
Tim
Hi John,Yes, I expect a moped engine, suitably geared with a matching prop could push a boat along but torque is very important.
The old London Transport RT bus weighing in at 7.5 tons (empty) had a 9.6 litre engine developing just 100bhp. No doubt a smaller engine with similar power may have sufficed, but would it have been as driveable or reliable?
Edders
The torque requirements for propelling a bus and a boat are totally different. The boat needs the max torque at max rpm, the bus doesn't.
The moped engine probably wouldn't last more than a day or two, but that's not really the point.
Tim
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Thanks for the replies, they confirm what we have found, i.e. very economical (5.5 to 6.5 days per bag instead of 3.5 we obtained with anything else) and much less ash. It can be a problem to light until you get used to it and it needs much more air to run but we found over the winter that about 1/4 turn open on the Squirrel keeps the rads comfortable without having to chuck the duvet on the floor in the night.
Perhaps the tale of metal degradation has been a touch overstated.
Richard
We burn anthracite in the Rayburn at home, have done for 17 years, never heard of this degradation thing.
As for lighting anthracite, I keep a bit of bituminous coal on hand just for that. A couple of firelighters, kindling wood if you've got it, then a few lumps of smokey coal. Start to put your anthracite on once the coal is properly alight.
Tim
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Middlewich
in General Boating
Posted
It's now an Indian restaurant.
Tim