Timleech
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Posts posted by Timleech
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Hi Steve. This is the only reference I can find, but it may help you IF it is the 'EA' series.
'EA 4.99 Four cylinder, 99 in³ (1.6 L) diesel engine. Wet sleeves, used in London Taxis.'
Might help you forwards a bit. If I can find out a production year I will let you know.
Dave.
They go back to the early sixties certainly, but how much further than that I don't know.
Early diesel Transits had them, in the late sixties.
Tim
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In the name of authenticity we've had old poker ends, old poker ends on mild steel shafts, down to a bit of unpainted old scaffolding for the tiller handle. Where is this going? Am I going to be sneered at for having the forward part of my boat devoted to living space instead of filling it with coal like in t'old days?
Not at all, my post was just to note that fancy tiller pins aren't 'essential', nor are brass tillers
Not in any way knocking those who have them.
Tim
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If you were able to step back a bit in time, I'm pretty sure you would find that fancy tiller pins, including the 'traditional' poker handles, were 'a bit of flash' for the working boaters and not the essential kit which they're seen as today. After all, they didn't use them to hang their lines
A coach bolt would do the job just as well (without the nut). The same is certainly true of brass tiller bars, I remember them as being the exception rather than the rule in the last days of Narrow Boat carrying, certainly in the NW. Steel tube, with some multicoloured stripes if you were lucky/motivated to do it, was the norm.
Tim
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I have a 57 ft semi trad (21" draft) fitted with a 42 hp Izusu engine/ PRM 150 gearbox driving through a python drive to a 17" x 12" prop. (total 400 hrs on the clock). With full throttle applied in neutral, full rated engine revs of 2800 is quickly achieved but when full throttle is applied in forward gear 2100 rpm is quickly achieved but this is the max obtainable. I also get some cavitation noise over about 1200 rpm. I suspected that the prop was oversized but speaking to people with similar sized boats 17" x 12" seems to be about right. looking at the power curve for the engine, 2100 rpm equates to about 32 hp so does this mean that I can't utilise the full 42hp of the engine ?? I would be very grateful for feed back regarding max engine revs achievable by people with similar set ups to mine to identify if I have a problem and if so suggestions on how to correct it. Many thanks
Yes it does mean you're not able to use the full 42hp, but don't let that worry you.
If the prop is a bigger diameter than that recommended for 42hp, it will be to your advantage for starting, stopping, manoevring etc., also you may well find that general cruising is done at a more comfortable/relaxing rpm than with the smaller prop.
If your test was done in shallow water, perhaps tied to the bank, you'll probably find max rpm will run a little higher with the boat moving freely in deep water such as a river.
32hp should be more than enough for a 57' nb in the real world anyway
Some engine marinisers are wise to the nb situation and recommend a slightly oversize propellor.
If in doubt, compare notes with other owners of similar hulls with the same engine & see what they have & how well it works.
The main thing is, if it does the job for you don't lose any sleep over it.
Tim
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Agreed, bear in mind the backing pad is bought separately from the discs.
The blue zirconium discs are much MUCH better than the brown al. oxide ones, and will give you a pretty good fighting chance of grinding millscale off.
cheers,
Pete.
Zirconium is, I believe, better because it constantly breaks down to leave a sharp edge on the grit, whereas the ordinary brown discs just wear to a 'blunt' state. Or something.
Tim
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I would agree that that should work too, however the ones they show in this book are hung by chains coming from the top of the fender run to the top of the stern. These would swing up and inboard without breaking of, though I suppose the issue is it may still snag.
It looks as though we're talking about opposite ends of the boat
Not obvious with the default typeface, but I wrote s t e m, you wrote s t e r n, I was thinking of s t e m fenders catching on cills or gate beams on the way up. There are, or used to be, one or two snags for the unwary on, for instance, the Wardle cut, where there was a length of railway iron across the face of the cill, just right for a fender to catch on when going uphill.
I agree s t e r n fenders/tipcats should only be hung from above. Probably best for s t e m fenders, too!
Tim
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RE the discussion about fenders, I have a book titled 'The Inland Boat Owner's Book' by Graham Booth (On NB Rome as of the writing) that was reccomended by the people in the shop at Tooleys Boatyard in Banbury that stresses fenders should be hung from above and not secured on the bottom in any manner. This helps prevents hanging a fender in the locks because the fender can simply lift away.
A stem fender should really be hung via weak links, traditionally a couple of strands of cotton rope, so that if it does catch on the way up the link will break and no serious damage done.
This is even more important with a wooden boat
Tim
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Im thinking of starting a little shop from my boat, selling essentials. Milk, bread, loo roll, tobacco etc.
1. How likely is something like this going to work and...
2. How do i go about business liscence, etc.
Look at
http://www.britishwaterways.co.uk/images/B...d_and_Wales.pdf
for a start
Tim
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The locker doesn't have to hold gas *under pressure*, it just has to ensure that any leakage falls out through the drain.
As I see it there should be no problem drilling holes in it, so long as you fill them up again (with approved material).
Tim
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er...
and do I recall seeing Dory?
Quite possibly, I believe they arrived during Saturday.
(I wasn't there myself)
Tim
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when i was sinking 3 years ago the method i described worked well when you remove the drive shaft and stern tube the water pressure holds the bag in the hole knocking the prop of is a bit of a task but it can be done usually loose the key way without the expense of dry docking
i was a bit worried when i did it but if you look back to the old man o wars if they got shot below the water line they just dragged a sail over the hole and the water pressure held it in place
I wasn't saying 'don't do it', just that it might not be as simple as your little list implied
Also the 'contingency plan' might just be a ball of greasy rag to stuff in the hole. Someone who isn't used to that sort of work could easily panic at the sight of water rushing into their boat, it helps to have a 'plan B' if you're not used to improvising in a hurry.
Be aware if you do lose the key (the keyWAY is the slot it goes into), that they are not all created equal. Yes, a lot of them are just square section stock, but sometimes the keyway in the prop (usually, though sometimes the shaft) isn't quite deep enough & a new key would need to be filed down to fit (I had to do one on Friday for a new prop, it's not that unusual). If the prop sits on top of the key, instead of on the taper, it will work loose, & I've seen propellor bosses cracked where they have been tightened hard onto a tight key.
If you are determined to take the prop off under water, slacken off the nut without removing it (always a good plan), then when the prop is loose on the taper, turn the shaft until you can feel the key/keyway at the top. Then remove nut & prop without turning shaft, & you should then be able to carefully remove the key with mole grips or whatever.
Tim
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similar suggestion that i have done twice
1 remove prop
2 get a good heavy duty plastic bag
3 put plastic bag over the prop shaft thru the weed hatch
4 fasten plstic bag around weld in section on the hull withh bungee chords tight
5 remove stern tube inside as described earlier if you have enough room prop shaft as well
no water will come inside if you do it like that
good luck
I'd be a bit concerned if removing the prop under water was a simple matter. It's mounted on a taper, for good reason, and it should need significant force to remove it. Also reassembling it under water and ensuring it is tight, with the split pin properly fitted (often involves drilling a fresh hole) would be a bit iffy.
You would also want a contingency plan in case the plastic bag became dislodged.
Tim
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thanks for the advice..
I presume from the info that the brass insert is threaded and screws into the welded in steel tube then!
Think its gonna be a busy/wet weekend for me next weekend!!
Yes, usually screws in a long way, maybe 60mm or so.
You might get away with screwing it most of the way out, & wrapping tape or other sealant on the exposed thread then retightening.
These things usually start leaking because whoever assembled it compromised on getting both threads tight because the position of the supporting plate wasn't exactly right. The risk is that whatever you do to seal it may only be temporary, and it will start leaking again sooner or later, unless you can make sure that both threads (the brass tube is threaded both ends) are tightened fully home. THis might involve drilling fresh holes in the support plate, or even cutting it out and rewelding it after the tube assembly has been tightened.
Tim
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I was referring to the stern. There are too many knees and they're in the wrong place, certainly not the same quality work as the bows. I know Ian Staples did some work on her but the work on the stern is too major for me to think he did it.
More pics here.
You should be able to make out that the knees were replaced like for like.
As far as I remember (it *was* 29 years ago!) the Starboard side wasn't as bad at the stern, we didn't replace nearly as much, Maybe that has been replanked since then?
Tim
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No offense meant Tim.
And I'm sure you noted my comments about getting a pro in for the bends.
No offence taken, it was said rather tongue in cheek
Those are fantastic photos of forget me not, is it ok if I print them off and pass them on to the current owner? She's a very close friend and would be thrilled to see them.Don't suppose you know what went wrong with the back end do you?
No, not sure what you're referring to with the stern (or back end? Hotel boats don't have a 'back end'!).
I'll try to post some pics of the stern when I've got time.
No prob sending her the pics, I'll email you some higher res versions if you like.
Cheers
Tim
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............................ it's no more technical than building a garden shed.
I used to be quite proud of some of the work I did 30 or so years ago, until I read that
Pride is allegedly one of the seven vices, though
Tim
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Yes I know about the Blue Lias bridge Stockton, its the thing that prevents anything over (I think 12' 3") getting any further northwards
(though it doesnt prevent locally based wider beam craft operating through Warwick and Leamington such as the trip/restaurant boat that I have seen there)
At least we agree that BW would have to do more maintenance to ensure that that widebeams could reach Brum with ease from the south
Wasn't it the case that the GU abandoned plans to use wide beam craft after the widening scheme was completed, decided that pairs of Narrow Boats were much better suited to the (improved) canal, partly because of difficulties with wide craft passing one another??
Or has that been conveniently forgotten by those who wish to keep wide craft on the GU today?
Tim
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Nail the blighters I say!
Is there someway we could introduce genetically modified, stronger wasps that dont have a sting?
Blimin things, do they eat something we need them to? Does something eat them to survive?
They eat other insects, I believe, and are quite useful.
My wife is liable to die if she is stung, especially if out of easy reach of a hospital, but has made a bit of a study of them & has a sneaking admiration for something which she has to treat 'as if it were a venomous snake'.
They're usually only a problem at the end of summer, when they tend to fly much lower and make a nuisance of themselves, but their usual behaviour patterns seem to have been a bit mixed up over the last year or three.
Tim
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It occurred to me only this morning, has anyone actually seen in print an instruction from a reputable engine manufacturer that you should run your engine in gear and any mention even in passing of 'Bore Glazing'. I'm not talking here about your local chandler slouching across his counter explaining why he has yet to find the fault in your engine or your friendly local mechanic who can't get to grips with your problem and is reluctant to investigate.
The canteen culture of engine mechanics always maintains that bore glazing is a genuine problem, I don't have any strong views either way but I do know it is a hell of a good excuse for not fixing an engine fault and I do know also that many of these 'age old mysteries', whether in engineering or anything else eventually turn out to be totally spurious.
Please let us not have any more replies simply stating 'I've been working on engines for 35 years and I know this thing exists so you will just have to take my word for it'. There is too much 'magic' in canal boats.
Gardners, back in the 'sixties when Turbo diesels first became popular for waggons & Gardners wouldn't have anything to do with such things, issued dire warnings about the use of 'turbo' oils in their engines, presumably because of the bore glazing issue. I can think of no other good reason.
Lister-Petter have offered their own branded oil for years because the standard offerings are too high a spec and their use can lead to bore glazing.
There are special products marketed by some oil companies specifically to break down bore glazing (and I'm told that they work!).
I don't think these things would happen if bore glazing were just a mischievous invention.
There are other reasons for running with the engine in gear, as discussed here & elsewhere. Also very good reasons for not doing so.
I don't know about any 'canteen culture', I work by myself most of the time & haven't been inside a canteen for about 30 years, & never one where such things might be discussed.
As it happens I have been working on engines (and boats) for 35 years, and I've seen genuine bore glazing from time to time
Tim
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mmm....... does yours clunk when it goes into gear?
Could I ask which Vetus engine/box you have?
Yes, it's a characteristic of the design (mechanical servo clutches, I believe, like many Hurth boxes. Never seen inside one, though)
M4.17/ Technodrive TMC60
Nice enough engine, but I wouldn't choose that gearbox for the job.
Tim.
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But if the gearbox isn't designed to run for long periods in neutral it will fail prematurely. Aparently some rely on the rotating components to 'splash' lubricate the bearings.
I think you'll find that most or all 'mechanical' boxes in our size range use splash lubrication. Nothing wrong with that if it's done properly, but it's a bit poor if it relies on the engine being in gear for the input shaft bearings to get any oil.
Actually the size of alternator (including Travelpower) being frequently fitted now would make a sizeable dent in the power output of a 'properly sized' engine for a narrowboat. It's when you get into the 40+ hp commonly seen now that there's a big mismatch.
Another way of dealing with the issue is having an engine driving a hydraulic pump, and hydraulic motor on both the alternator - which can be a 'proper' mains voltage job as big as the engine output - and on the prop shaft.
Fairly expensive, though, compared with a mass-produced engine/gearbox/alternator combination.
Tim
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There are no gearboxes that are designed and built to be suitable for canal boats at least not in the last fifty years or so, they are designed around the requirements of sea boats which are required to go into reverse only the occasional time when going in and coming out of harbour. That is why you will see that your box is rated for an engine of a power that is three or four times bigger that the one it is fitted to.
The engine marinisers have experience of this and fit gearboxes that they think are robust enough to withstand all the banging in and out of gear that we subject them to.
Oh yeah??
Vetus M4.17, 42 bhp @ 3000 rpm
http://www.abcpm.co.uk/vetus/diesel/
Technodrive TMC60, as fitted to the Vetus M4.17 (that's what is on mine)
'Pleasure craft' rating 47 bhp @3000 rpm
'intermediate' rating 40 bhp @ 3000,
'continuous' 26 bhp @ 2300.
http://www.technodrive.it/italy/invertitor...epl_TMC_60E.pdf
Hardly 'overrated' in my book.
Only just big enough, more like.
Tim
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Hi Catweasel
From a totally non technical amateur point of view then I would think the agent is correct.
The shaft being driven at all times by the engine (lay shaft??) would not be lubricated if it was a 'splash' lubricated gearbox.
Not neccessarily true. It would if the box were well designed.
Parsons gearboxes, of pious & immortal memory, were splash lubricated. They had a big oil collector/thrower ring on the input shaft, this picked up oil from the bottom & threw it up to a crude gallery sort of thing under the lid, whence it ran down to the places where it was needed.
Of the Technodrive, and what arrangements it has, I know nerthing.
Tim
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OK, no rods out there then.
Can anyone who's made a cratch board (assuming somebody has) let me know what joints are tradiationally used? Stopped, haunched tenons at the bottom? How do the stiles, top rail and mullion come together at the top?
Failing that, if anyone's got a nice one and could take a couple of photos of the top so I can see how it all fits together, that would be very helpful...
Any advice appreciated.
Thanks.
Lots of room for confusion here (apart from the talk of 'rods').
Are you talking about a 'cratch' for a pleasure boat, or for a former working boat?
Strictly the term cratch, as originally used with working boats, referred to the whole (demountable) assembly including the canvas etc.
Maybe you knew that & that's what you were asking for? If not, I don't think there's anything terribly technical or particular conventions to follow.
BTW I have a hardwood glazed 'cratch' & top plank assembly from a 'Liverpool clone' to dispose of, not very old, it needs reglazing though.
Tim
How old is my engine?
in General Boating
Posted
Gutless yes, but reliable unlike the awful Ford York diesel which replaced them
Tim