Jennifer
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Posts posted by Jennifer
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On 28/12/2019 at 11:02, alan_fincher said:
I believe the EV has been connected to the wrong place!
Looking at your first picture the brass fitment nearest the camera is the thermostatic mixing valve and the hose running away from that should be te outlet from the whole arrangement, feeding all your hot taps. Are you able to confirm this?If so that is the pipe the expansion vessel should be connected to.
See here....
http://www.surejust.co.uk/surecal-horizontal-calorifier-connection-instructionsThe pipe it is connected to appears to be the cold feed to the whole set up. If so it is connected to the wrong side of the non-return valve that is embedded as part of that lower fitting, so it can't work as a hot water expansion vessel.
Whoever you got to do this work apperas to be clueless, and not bothered to look at the manufacturers instructions to get around their cluelessness.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.
At least it is all rubber pipework, so easier to sort out than if done the more usual way with solid pipe and fittings.Hi having done some more digging into the setup in the picture we now know that the whole system did not have a accumulator tank fitted anywhere even though we had paid for this, the red expansion bottle in the picture is actually acting as an accumulator tank on the cold feed as there was never one put in. We will still need an expansion bottle on the hot side and am going to get quotes for this in the new year to sort it all out. Am really angry with the installer and will be taking it further as they were clueless for a lot of money !
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21 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:
Agree with everything Alan has said so far, and not just in this post.
One further thing is your calorifier appears to be piped up in rubber hose clamped onto plain stubs of copper tube in the fittings. This is poor practice as the rubber tube really needs to be fitted onto annular ringed tube adaptors. Rubber hoses are prone to leakage when fitted onto plain stubs. This might be the reason for your post 65.
This type of thing:
Hi agree that the person who fitted this is clueless and to be honest did not care I have just tightened up the jubilee clips on the pipes and there is no more leaks I have turned the website on and am going to leave it running all day to see if there are any more leaks for now I think it is best I leave it at that and get someone who knows how this should of been fitted to sort it out long term any suggestions of anyone decent near Teddington would be much appreciated.
You guys are a godsend thankyou for all your help I owe you all a drink !
Just now, Jennifer said:Hi agree that the person who fitted this is clueless and to be honest did not care I have just tightened up the jubilee clips on the pipes and there is no more leaks I have turned the website on and am going to leave it running all day to see if there are any more leaks for now I think it is best I leave it at that and get someone who knows how this should of been fitted to sort it out long term any suggestions of anyone decent near Teddington would be much appreciated.
You guys are a godsend thankyou for all your help I owe you all a drink !
SORRY not turned the website on ! Webasto on !!
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Have just seen that 2 pipes are leaking the idiot that installed it has used 16mm pipe and I think it is a 13mm fitting so am going to try to tighten them up first !!
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Another problem is the position of the calorifier it will have to be unscrewed and put upright to access the prv ....
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10 hours ago, alan_fincher said:
If you can post a picture of where he has T-eed the EV into the hot water pipework, that would also be useful.
Those calorifiers have a well disguised non-return valve embedded into the "pre-plumbed" part, and if someone is not familiar with them, they could have attached the EV to part of the plumbing where it can't actually do anything useful.....
.... However ....
You have indicated, I think, that even with the 4 bar PRV replaced by a 3 bar one, leakage is less than it was, so I am moderately optimistic that the EV is doing something, but quite possibly not at the right pressure.
Anyway it is late, so I'm out of here for tonight - I'm sure you'll let us know how you got on....10 hours ago, alan_fincher said:If you can post a picture of where he has T-eed the EV into the hot water pipework, that would also be useful.
Those calorifiers have a well disguised non-return valve embedded into the "pre-plumbed" part, and if someone is not familiar with them, they could have attached the EV to part of the plumbing where it can't actually do anything useful.....
.... However ....
You have indicated, I think, that even with the 4 bar PRV replaced by a 3 bar one, leakage is less than it was, so I am moderately optimistic that the EV is doing something, but quite possibly not at the right pressure.
Anyway it is late, so I'm out of here for tonight - I'm sure you'll let us know how you got on....Hi Alan just thinking does it matter leaving the 3 bar prv on or should I change it back to the 4 bar that I still have as it was not faulty in the first place. Also have confirmed the accumulator is on the non return valve pipe
Before I go any further here are some pics of the setup showing where it is plumbed in is this correct ?
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8 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:
Which says....
Jenniferstates her pump is 2.4 bar, which is 35 psi in round numbers. So if you add 5 psi to that it would mean pre-charging the EV at 40 psi.
However if we believe the PRV has now been changed to a 3 bar one, that implies it will start to dribble at 43.5 psi.
To my mind none of these numbers are precise, s if we set the EV at only 3.5 psi less than the PRV rating, there is a distinct possibility of water still being ejected rather than expanding into the EV.
To guarantee that the EV does its job if charged to 40 psi, I think the PRV needs changing back to a 4 bar one, (which is 58 psi). The margin between 40 psi and 58 psi is huge, and the EV, must do its job. With just 3.5 psi margin, I would not like to guarantee it at all.
Either way, I suspect te EV is not currently charged at 40 psi, (unless Jennifer has now arranged that).See above, but I don't think you can guarantee success with a 2.4 bar pump and a 3 bar PRV, if you follow the Surejust advice and charge the EV to 40 psi (which is about 2.8 bar - too close in my view to the 3 bar PRV, particularly as whatever you use to measure the pressure probably will not be that accurate.
Ok understand thanks the first thing I am going to do is change the prv back to the 4 bar with the pump off and pressure released and then I will come back to you thanks
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9 hours ago, alan_fincher said:
If you can post a picture of where he has T-eed the EV into the hot water pipework, that would also be useful.
Those calorifiers have a well disguised non-return valve embedded into the "pre-plumbed" part, and if someone is not familiar with them, they could have attached the EV to part of the plumbing where it can't actually do anything useful.....
.... However ....
You have indicated, I think, that even with the 4 bar PRV replaced by a 3 bar one, leakage is less than it was, so I am moderately optimistic that the EV is doing something, but quite possibly not at the right pressure.
Anyway it is late, so I'm out of here for tonight - I'm sure you'll let us know how you got on....9 hours ago, alan_fincher said:If you can post a picture of where he has T-eed the EV into the hot water pipework, that would also be useful.
Those calorifiers have a well disguised non-return valve embedded into the "pre-plumbed" part, and if someone is not familiar with them, they could have attached the EV to part of the plumbing where it can't actually do anything useful.....
.... However ....
You have indicated, I think, that even with the 4 bar PRV replaced by a 3 bar one, leakage is less than it was, so I am moderately optimistic that the EV is doing something, but quite possibly not at the right pressure.
Anyway it is late, so I'm out of here for tonight - I'm sure you'll let us know how you got on....Hi Alan just thinking does it matter leaving the 3 bar prv on or should I change it back to the 4 bar that I still have as it was not faulty in the first place. Also have confirmed the accumulator is on the non return valve pipe
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1 hour ago, system 4-50 said:
Just for the record:
Hi thanks I have read that but was not sure how to set it I also know our pump pressure is 35 psi as stated it on the device which got me confused am going down to it soon after a cuppa cheers
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Just now, alan_fincher said:
It's probably not disastrous that he has replaced 4 bar with 3 bar, though it would have been better to replace like with like.
I think the first thing is to try to ensure your accumulator is pre-charged to more that 2.4 bar and less than 3 bar (try 2.6 bar as I suggested). This should be done with the water pump turned off, and taps opened so the system is otherwise depressurised, not with the water pump turned on.Thanks Alan will have a go tomorrow may also put the original PRV back in as I very much doubt anything was wrong with it in the first place !!
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5 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:
I don't think there is a suggestion a 6 bar one has been fitted is there? - the 6 bar has come from an example Mike found at Screwfix, not anything Jennifer has said.
I think if what has been fitted is described by Screwfix as 1- 3 bar, it is probably a 3 bar one. I would expect it to be marked on the top as such, but I think that is info we are currently lacking.
However if Jennifer's "expert" has replaced a 4 bar PRV with a 3 bar one, I would not be in any way surprised if they had also not done (at least one of) the following...
1) T'eed the EV into the wrong pipe.
2) Failed to set the pre-charge pressure appropriately.
The best scenario here would be that it is only (2) they have got wrong!HI have just been down there it is 3 bar am not surprised the guy was useless
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15 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:
The PRV rating is always marked on it, usually on the red plastic handle/cap.
We need Jen to have a look and post the actual pressure rating written on the cap of hers, regardless of what the manual says it ought to be.
Just looked it is 3 bar the old one is 4 bar
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3 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:
If you mean 1 to 3 bar, it's can't be, as they are specified with a value, not a range of values.
Looking at the specs, I suspect hat it might have had was 4 bar, and the replacement should have been the same. If it is now 3 bar that is OK, but that's about the least it can be with the pump you say you have got.Ok this is not good the idiot that changed the PRV changed it from a 4 bar to a 1-3 bar from screwfix I have the original one here and doubt there was ever anything wrong with it
1 minute ago, alan_fincher said:As accumulators and EVs are effectively the same thing, and accumulators are pre-charged at much lower pressures than EVs, if it has been supplied charged suitable for use as an accumulator, it will not work as an EV, until pressure increased.
I'm slightly concerned that Jennifer says only a 5 litre EV has now been fitted. From my memory the maths actually indicates a theoretical need for larger than this. I think 8 litres is the usual recommendation on a 55 litre calorifier.Surecal recommend that size for 55 litres I rung them
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1 minute ago, alan_fincher said:
It's a HotPot which I think is just Surecal / SureJust carrying a different brand.
If so these now come with a 4 bar PRV, so I think they must rate the calorifier at more than 4 bar.It states surecal on the original paperwork
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3 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:
What we need to know also is the rating of the PRV, (which as it has just been replaced should be "knowable".
But if your pump is capable of 2.4 bar (about 35psi). we already know that the expansion vessel needs to be pre-charged to more than that. Assuming PRV is 3 bar, I'd try (say) 2.6 bar for the pressure on the EV (or 38 psi, if your pump gauge doesn't show bar)>
Your PRV musn't be less than you set the EV pressure to, or it will still vent over!The PRV is 1 -3 bar is that what you mean
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Just now, David Mack said:
Can you confirm where the EV is fitted. If it is on the cold inlet pipe and there is a non-return valve fitted to the calorifier inlet, then it cannot function as an EV.
Hi I am not sure which pipe it was fitted to one thing I do know however is before this was fitted the bulge had a lot of water from the PRV now it is only a small amount say half a cup at most so not sure if that could still be normal ?
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Just now, alan_fincher said:
Do you know....
1) The stated pressure at which your water pump should cut out2) The stated pressure at which your PRV should open.
Either may be stated in psi or bar - no problem as conversion is easy.
Do you have a bike pump or a car foot pump with a pressure gauge on, and which fits a Schreader (car tyre type) valve?
If so, you can check this yourself, but you do need to be able to read the pressure the EV is pre-charged to.
You might do it bu guesswork, but very possibly you will not!Hi we have a V Flo 5.0 2.4 bar and a hotpot 55L calorifier with a 5vlitre expansion tank. I do have a bike pump in the car with a gauge but not sure what the target pressure should be. I would like to try to do this myself as had enough of paying others when we are skint !
7 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:Nobody knows except a person who is there and able to measure the pump switching pressures. Frankly, your plumber should have done this for you.
Yes I know but that would mean he would not make more money out of us having to come back we have not had any luck with plumbers unfortunately
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4 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:
The expansion vessel will not work if the pressure inside it too high OR too low. It will also not work if fitted into the wrong pipe.
Look at it to find the Schrader valve, like a car tyre valve. It's blooming obvious!
Will find it tomorrow but not sure how much air to take out may have to get someone in for this but thanks guys much appreciated
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1 minute ago, Mike the Boilerman said:
Yes, either add or remove air using the Schraeder valve on the vessel.
Not sure where that valve is, sorry for sounding stupid but how would I know whether to add or remove air is there a way of telling what is needed ?
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2 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:
The new expansion tank is not working.
Probably charged to the wrong pressure.
Hi Mike thanks for coming back to me do you know how do I change the pressure on it ?
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Hi everyone and merry Christmas!
We have had an expansion tank fitted now however we are still getting a small amount of water from the PRV on the calorifier when heating up.
Is this normal to happen even after an expansion tank is fitted. The PRV valve was changed as well so know that is not causing it.
Very grateful for any advice on this
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18 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:
As Paringa says, neighbouring boats will give you chapter and verse about likely level changes, and how loose to keep your lines. Would be worth going back to the boat specifically to ask around about this.
Boaters (especially Thames boaters) are generally concerned about all boats not just theirs, so if yours get in trouble it is highly likely someone around will intervene to keep it safe.
Hi thanks Mike normally we would be around to check it but we are up north at the moment visiting family but will give a few people a call later on to check the boat thanks
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36 minutes ago, Paringa said:
The fact you are aware of the conditions and have made provision to deal with the rise and fall is great.
The river level change is more pronounced below a weir, so get above a lock if possible....sounds like you have.
This site https://www.gaugemap.co.uk/ will keep you in touch of what is happening to river levels if you are away.
Make sure any bilge pump is working and will continue to work.
Others nearby will be able to give you specifics on Teddington, but yes this is normal and not extreme.
Great thanks for the info
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Hello everyone
We are new to the River Thames and have only recently moved our boat to the Thames so getting used to it all at the moment.
We are not currently on the boat due to having to be somewhere else for work reasons I am a bit alarmed about the flood alerts that are coming up in the area in that flooding is possible - be prepared from the flood information service. We are in the Teddington area is anyone on this forum near there if so how bad is it and should we get to the boat asap or is it normal for this time of year ? All the boards on the Thames are also red from what I see looking online.
We have loosened our ropes and put scaffolding poles on the bank of the mooring to prevent the boat from going on the bank in the event that it rises that high. However am wondering if there is anything else that we should of done when we are not there and too far away at the moment.
It is all very new to us please excuse my lack of knowledge in this area we have been on the Thames for less than a month so we are learning as we go along !!
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50 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:
Where are you? I have a new one you can have FOC if you are able to collect it from me on the K&A.
I bought it for the owners of BOURNEMOUTH who rather unsportingly ordered it from me then refused to return my calls to arrange to fit it.
Hi I will pm you thanks
Calorifier leaking problem
in Boat Equipment
Posted
Hi Alan yes will check that but for now no more leaks or issues however am going to get the correct pipes and setup done early Jan by someone reputable. If you knew how much I was charged for this work it would shock you. Knowing a bit more about what is required now I would never of paid that but lesson learnt ....