Calranthe

Lets try to keep this civil please, this is a discussion about something we are all passionate about boats Yes we have a lot of different opinions, I have seen at least on the 12 mile we walked of the TMC for the last year and the 6 Miles of travel on the canal we managed the following. As many tatty looking NB as GRP, As many sunken NB as GRP and by that I mean none. I have seen the damage a NB can and does do to locks/bridges with an inexperienced pilot. Lets be honest here if I hit something on the canal's unless its a kayak or person I am going to come worse off but that is only to a degree, at the speeds we travel and the flexibility of a good GRP hull the odd knock is not going to do much harm. As a GRP pilot I will never enter a lock before a NB the physics are just too damn unfortunate. Will any of that stop me enjoying Kathleen and going everywhere on canals ? in a boat that for 36 years has proven it can go on canals and more ? no I think of it like this to a lesser extent on a bike or as a cyclist you travel roads filled with huge fast boxes of metal traveling at speeds that could end you in a second you have little or no real protection only your situational awareness and ability to keep you safe, going by the mentality of some in this thread a cyclist or Biker would never leave there home, take that to the nth degree and as a pedestrian you walk down a path less than 2 ft from cars going so fast if the hit you its game over, should we all stay in doors ? I will be careful, I will be aware and hopefully I will learn.

I have already learnt Fenders are my friend hehe, with Kathleen being a narrow cruiser I think we can even go in the smaller locks on the TMC without pulling up the fenders but I will be taking it VERY slowly and letting NB's go through first if they wish, we will be in no rush, set aside 7 days to get from Sawley to Aston, we will probably try visit a lot of the nice places on the way.

You may want to reread the thread, see this thread was never about concerns like that this thread was about starting a lively discussion about the differences in NB and GRP and why people decide on one over the other, a lot of passion but sadly also a few very closed minded people but that is also okay you do not have to be on this thread, I have really enjoyed reading different peoples opinions, as for my boat we are hoping to go on our epic journey on wednesday. NB are not right for us and never will be it just does not suit us but hopefully I have shown in this thread that I can accept and be fine that for other people its the best thing since sliced bread.

I think the biggest problem I see in this thread is from those that say "you can't do that" or "this one is the only way", both NB and GRP have strengths and weaknesses, I can stop kathleen and reverse within its own size, I can turn her 360 within her own space, I've seen NB try to handle a tight T junction its sometimes painful to watch, for a GRP the biggest problem I have is oversteer, I can go around a 120 degree corner without needing to excavate a field. She is a little too responsive which I will learn to handle, I do not think a NB has ever been described as too responsive.

I am not looking for a show boat, Kathleen is an old boat, good hull and we will have her painted and she will be given some TLC but the day I won't take out something I own because it could get scratched or damaged then I ask what is the point, you could take a GRP out on a lake, river, sea and hit debris. Too many what if's, Kathleen has had 36 years out on canals giving many people enjoyment and experiences and with us too hopefully

Then all those thousands of GRP boats that cruise the canal's of the uk and have done so for 30+ years and still survive must be made of magic pixie dust, locks can be an issue to anyone the advice on here seems to be go in to a lock solo or after the NB. I have personally seen GRP boats have "knocks" and bangs like a dodgem car and still be around years later.

Well this brings up another point, there is thousands of GRP boats 10-40 years old which are canal and river boats, used on those waterways and still out there, not sunk, not destroyed by the smallest of knocks, just like NB if looked after they last a long time, my Kathleen is 36 years old and apart from the engine trouble there is no leaks boat is dry as a bone inside and no water staining or paint over, 15 years ago members of this very forum took that boat all over the canal's (she was called Michelle back then) and even though now she needs a little tlc, you show me a 36 year old NB that would not need the same.

I have to disagree with you even though I respect and agree with some of what you say. Point one and please let me know if I am wrong I think we are on the same page on this although I am coming from a far less experienced side, higher density GRP as in the older boats 60-79+ were made with a lot thicker/denser GRP because back then they had no idea how little they could use and thus those older boats are more resistant to Osmotic blistering ? Point two, on the short time I have been on the TMC and all those times we went on the tow path we saw equal numbers of NB and GRP boats.

Beautiful. Does it have a model number

Okay the official trip date is Wednesday, we have appointments to go to before then so that is the next day free and we will have 6-7 days to have a slow voyage, yes I will keep you all informed if something else goes wrong or even if something goes right!

What type of GRP is it ? I am very interesting in all the opinions in this thread and it is easy to see this is a passionate subject for some

It is interesting to see so many different opinions, I think we can state with some degree of certainty that both NB and GRP are great for canals. each will have there fans when you go outside the confines of the canals and that is one of the reasons we prefer a GRP a lot of options open up to you, now yes we have all seen the video's of narrow boats going onto tidal rivers and estuaries we probably have members here who do that but it is not what a NB was built for at least from my minor understanding. I am not against steel and as some one pointed out Dutch Steel boats are kick ass, converted Trawlers, GRP all of them give the option to explore further than canals. Honestly if money was not an option and space available I would probably go for a NB GRP for the canal's and a shaft driven diesel either trawler/grp/steel about 23-30 ft for the rest of wherever we wished to travel, I just can not see myself in a NB, I understand the appeal and the benefits but it just is not for me or Paola. Even before we even considered buying one ourselves as we travelled the canal tow paths seeing a NB was like seeing a beautiful old building a piece of architecture a cottage but seeing a GRP was more like something we could both envision ourselves piloting.

Yes, just checked out that flight of locks my grp could do it easily.

What is the Atherstone flight ?

Some of those little spaces seem to go on for ever, I've been putting spare windlass, rope, hand horn and extras into a little tiny opening.

With my little £3,300 boat once the fuel pump is fixed from my short experience and for me personally the following points It is more maneuverable than any NB, it can turn in its own space can go anywhere within reason. It is very economical on fuel, When I get up in the morning on the trip within reason I do not have to worry about getting wet, I can sit under my cozy canopy on my pilot chair and go. For me at this point those points matter and the only issue beyond a cursed fuel pump could be storage space in the future.

Now that is an impressive boat and with a good pilot could probably handle most of what is out there, thank you for the pictures.

That is a nice looking boat what type is it ?

I think Chubby put it the right way, NB are a box have been that basic shape with a few modifications since they became a thing, usage of that space is the big and changeable part, now a Sealine S23 was as most GRP built from day one with every part of it custom and designed to best use that shape, not one inch of space wasted, years of experience and design work, meaning that on a well designed boat like the S23 (yes there is always lemons out there) you can have up to 20 people for a party and 8 people visiting comfortably. Meaning that for 2+ people it can be a very spacious living area. After looking into boats and if Kathleen ever becomes too small then something like the S23 but with a single diesel for economy reasons, would I think fit us well but this would be far past the point we had explored the canal's to our hearts content and wished to go further than comfortable in Kathleen and that is what it will come down to as my experience grows with Kathleen will I get to the point I outstrip the boat ?

True but only conditional, from what I understand it a scratch on a GRP is just a scratch (except in the case of osmosis and only certain types of GRP are prone to it) a scratch to a NB that goes through the paintwork into the metal can cause issues and steel does not flex like GRP does, yes it can take a bigger knock but does it take those knocks without needing more repair work long term and time out of the water than a GRP. This post was not a GRP vs NB that is one of those questions that has no answer, people are people, unique in our likes and interests but it would be interesting to see a NB which some people do take into tidal and River spend a little time on a well built GRP. Am I wrong in thinking the following ? My GRP boat can reverse and steer better than a NB My GRP boat can do a 360 turn within its own size (I know this is true for kathleen even when the engine was not at 100% we turned back just before a lock at within one of the tightest parts of the canal with no issue at all. My GRP can with a bigger prop go tidal river and coastal (I am not saying in any way that I would and I know it isn't advised) but I have seen Buckingham 20's fitted out for coastal, crazy yes but in theory possible you would need a pilot with a lot of experience.

Some in this thread are making a lot of assumptions about GRP, its understandable and on some forums narrow boat users even look down on "plastic" boats but having been inside both even our 20ft Kathleen feels more spacious than a 35ft NB we looked at, you may just surprise yourself, something like Naughty Cal is so well designed to make use of the space provided both in storage and people space it would be a real eye opener, yes I think that I am right in thinking Naughty Cal would have trouble in some of the smaller canal's but she isn't an exception to the rule, i've seen 25-27ft GRP live in cruisers who can handle all the canals and have the ability to take on much more than a NB can. And some are built like tanks lol. I think it is more about perception.

We will soon have our GRP up at Aston Marina (Stone, Stafford, Stoke on Trent area) and will be looking for a recommended boat guy, I do not mind learning to do a lot of the stuff myself but I am looking for some one familiar with old engines and also with modifying boats (joinery etc).

While waiting for my GRP boat to be fixed, I have watched many youtube videos and talked to boaters on the canal (you can see the TMC from our back windows) I am curious to know what drives people to live on a narrow boat instead of a GRP ? If I had the kind of money that can be spent on a narrow boat I would buy a modern river/canal/offshore GRP and there are versions of that kind of boat that are insulated have excellent storage and space, 4-6 berth and while anti fouling would still be a thing the not having to black and having far more manoeuvrability and an expanded area to travel in. I could see myself living on one of them but never on a narrow boat. Do not think that I hate narrow boats, I do not, they are beautiful like old Tudor houses but the maintenance seems to outstrip a normal house. I know this is a personal thing to everyone so I am curious why did you decide on the boat you did and what if any regrets did you have ?

not happened yet still waiting on the fuel pump, it still had an issue so the engineer took it back to the company who reconditioned it, he wasn't happy, we weren't happy, it will happen soon lol

Will watch out for that one thank you. Hopefully by then Paola can pilot the boat.