j04n
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Posts posted by j04n
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our LED's knock out the telly reception. it is a weak signal anyway so hoping putting the aerial outside will be sufficient...... sorry, not directly linked just thought I'd chip in! ?
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I believe it might have pretty lights on the front.
oh well ......... i'll order 2!!!
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Pretty much in line with my thoughts Nick. I think a lot of folk get suckered in thinking they'll cut their charge times by two thirds or whatever when the reality is that it won't save a whole stack of time at all.
5 times faster they quote, or even 20!! ....... mind it should be for that price! ......... surely it does something for £374?.......or is this to counter problems with these so called smart alternators?
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I question if its sensible to tie up for those periods without a larger solar input and possibly more engine running.
I'm going to be cruising in the winter so I can forget solar. More engine running and cooking on travel power whilst engine running I guess....... oh and lots of jam and bread!
..... oh and planned marina stop overs with electrical hook up. -
I ensure that it reaches this at least once a week.
That was my main concern for good battery health as I didnt think running on partial charge for 3 months would do them any good.
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I have a MICC but because the % charge goes out of sync I usually leave it on mains charge for several days before resetting the MICC. Of course off grid I won't be able to do that so will have to monitor the amps being put back into the battery as well as the voltage.I suspect that for ordinary leisure batteries (as opposed to traction batteries), you won't gain much by charging a couple of points higher and would eventually shorten the battery life somewhat. Sure, 14.4V would be better but a 1.5% increase in voltage wouldn't make s huge difference.
What method do you use to determine the SoC of your bank?
Tony
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mine charge around 14.2V. I am interested in any gains because I am hoping to CC for 3 months but only intend cruising for 3 to 5 hours every other day or even moor up for 2 to 3 days on occasions but suspect I will not be putting enough back into my domestic batteries without going without lights(figure of speech) for sometime or running my engine whilst moored. Or live on jam and bread! ?
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thanks very much All. You've saved me £350 ish! much appreciated.
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Hi All,
Been reading about alternators only charging batteries up to 80% and very slowly at that, which I have seen for myself on my MICC. The fix seems to be to install a battery to battery charger in order to achieve 100% charge, 5 times quicker. That's the theory at least anyway. Apart from them being pricey I would appreciate any practical advise on whether you feel the benefits are real, worth it and if there are any draw backs? Alternator early failure for example. Thanks in advance.
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I made similar enquiries last year with the same result. We bought a second hand 2:1 box in the end.
Anyone want to buy my nearly new 3:1 PRM 260D?
I see RCR are now flogging reconditioned PRM 260D 2:1 boxes on ebay on an exchange basis for £1200. You might find they will do a deal with you and swap yours for a 2:1 given yours needs no work on it.
Thanks for the advice! went with RCR in the end, £500 with mine as exchange. Excellent efficient service and kindly supplied the gearbox before receiving mine in return
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I've tried to replicate this using Chrome and Firefox but it let me logout fine. It may be worth clearing your browser cache and cookies for CWDF.
It works immediately after clearing the browser history but then reverts back to not allowing me to log out....... or should I say sign out.
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Big alternator with conventional wiring - domestic
Smaller alternator - engine & BT
Big alternator with braided wiring - travelpower.
Simples!
What engine do you have?
Shire 65, Yanmar 4TNV98
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Simpler than tracing cables will be to check the voltages on the backs of the alternators. With the engine stopped the one that's the same voltage as the domestic bank is charging that bank etc.
You are right. I did look when I got the boat a year ago but didnt make a note and am now going from memory ....... which isnt what it was ....... or what I remember it being!
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No, probably the 160A is the domestic alternator. The travelpower alternator produces 300v or so and so the current is much less, around 16A, but anyway it's normally rated in terms of power (3.5kVA probably) rather than current. It's ability to charge batteries is limited by the Combi i.e. 100A.
Ok, thanks
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And that won't be charging anything - it's purely for 230V.
Unless I have the charge feature enabled on the Mastervolt 100/2000, but I guess that is pointless when the batteries are being charged directly by an alternator anyway. The current draw is confusing me as already stated it can be around 150 amps yet from memory the alternator ratings are 160, 80 and 50 so if the 160 is travel power only not sure where the high charge amps are coming from. I will have to check at the weekend when I am back. Need to get my head around this electrical circuit. I know it shouldnt be difficult its just tracing the cables!
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Presumably the BT batteries are charged by the same alternator as either the engine or domestic batteries, so that if the BT charging cable trip opens, the alternator remains connected to the other battery. As such it wouldn't be damaged.
The BT charging cable will likely be a long run down the boat and the trip is probably to protect against a possible short circuit in the wiring.
Good point! Now you mention it the literature did state that BT and starter battery are on the same alternator but as I have 3 alternators I keep assuming 1 - domestic, 1 - starter and 1 - BT. But now youve reminded me it is more likely 1 - travel, 1 - domestic and 1 starter and BT........ then again when the domestic batteries are depleted they do take a charge in excess of 140amps and I only have one alternator capable of that so it is more likely 1 - travel and domestic, 1 - starter and BT and 1 - ????? think I'm going to have to trace it!?
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The trip is on the motor, not the batteries. So if the motor trips the alternator is still attached to the battery.
The 'danger' of disconnecting an alternator is mostly relevant when that alternator is working hard into discharged batteries.
I understand your logic but mine certainly has a trip on the alternator side also. There is no mistaking the diameter of the cable.
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Sorry for going off piste ......... again! ....... but ive just had a thought. I have read that you must never disconnect your batteries while the alternator is running as you can cause serious damage to the alternator. Not that I can see any reason why anybody would want to but what happens if you blow the thermal trip, like on the bow thruster? Isnt that the same thing?
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How do they tie into your charging system, could some of your Ah be going that way?
Quite possibly. Something else I need to trace through as the electrical drawings are pretty basic to say the least. There are 3 alternators in the system. I have just added a volt meter to the bow thruster battery circuit because I didnt think they were charging and my fears seem to have been confirmed. I say seem because there was no noticeable voltage increase when I started the engine. The other possibility is too big a voltage drop from the alternator to the bow thruster batteries which are mounted at the front of the boat so a 17 metre run of cable. I need to put a volt meter across the alternator. In addition I am thinking of making use of the 5a trickle charger in the Mastervolt 100/2000 which according to the literature is connected to the starter and bow thruster batteries but from what I can see it isnt. So the starter and bow thruster batteries are currently only charged from the alternators......... sorry! started rambling........ nothing to do with your question or the original post!
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Hi j04n
We have 8 110Ah Numax leisure batteries. They are now 2 years old and still working really well. We have a 175A alternator and 400w solar.
I am really pleased with our set up, and hope you will be too.
Cheers
Mike
8?! that must be about the limit is it Mike? ...... how long do they last off grid? I get about 3 days off six in the summer, 4 at a push but I suspect more like 2 in the winter as the diesel central heating pump draws a bit........ so far so good!
........ There were 4 110AGM's in the domestic bank when I bought it, 1 110AGM as a starter battery and 2 110AGM's for the bow thruster. Which I thought was a total waste for the starter and bow thruster applications. Replaced the starter battery with a standard 75Ah starter battery and the 2 bow thruster batteries with 2 75Ah starter batteries and what a difference! Definitely more punch in the bow thrusters despite smaller, cheaper batteries, but better suited to the application. Mind that maybe because the old batteries were past there best. 9 years old and the boat hadnt been used for 2 years so I guess that didnt help.Cheers
John
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Just for clarity, the MICC will reset to 100% when all the below are satisfied
1/ All the AH taken out have been replenished (the absolute number, not taking into account charge efficiency)
2/ The voltage is up at a voltage that means the batteries are being charged
3/ The charge current has fallen below the set value
4/ The above conditions have been satisfied for a set time.
So my suspicion is that you are not satisfying 1/. With the -ve issue I mentioned, the shunt will be registering all the AH taken out, but not registering all the AH being put back in due to the alternative parallel current path via the engine starter battery -ve. Under that circumstance, even when you go back onto shore power, the batteries are already charged and so don't take any significant current and 1/ remains unsatisifed.
It is 1/ which is not being achieved although the batteries are definitely fully charged as 2/ and 3/ are achieved. I've looked at a photo I took and the starter battery negative goes to a common earth on the hull but the domestic battery bank negative appears to go off else where. I'm away on business so cannot check physically until the weekend.
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Yes, I do reset manually was just hoping to avoid.With my Victron Combi, I have to periodically reset the SoC percentage meter to keep it in sync with actual battery SoC when I know the batteries are fully charged, as indicated by the tail current being <1%.
I assume the Mastervolt will have the same facility. Check in your manual.
I've seen that thanks and wired according to the last one. Looks a bit of a rats nest but i understand the theory.Please don't tell us that you've rewired the bank so that the pos and neg are now on the same battery...
As a minimum, they should be from opposite corners. With a big bank, more complex connections work even better.
See this web page: http://www.smartgauge.co.uk/batt_con.html
I'll check that out thanks. I know they not connected directly to each other but not sure which side of the shunt they connected.If the MICC of way short of 100% when the charge current has fallen to say 1% (6A or so) and if this only happens when charging via the alternator, then chances are the MICC's shunt is wired incorrectly. Probably the domestic battery -ve is connected directly to the engine battery -ve whereas it should not be - the engine battery -ve should be connected to the other side of the shunt. NOTHING should be connected to the domestic batteries -ve except the shunt.
This seems to be a common installation error by boatyards who don't really know what they're doing.
Any Ah counter like the MICC will always tell lies about the SoC. The way to determine 100% charge (or thereabouts) will be to see when your 6 x 110Ah batteries are only taking around 13A charging current or when the charging current hasn't dropped over a period of 45 minutes or so.
A SmartGauge will track the true SoC during discharge if you wish to do so.
I did wonder if I was just going to accept that I will have to keep resetting it manually. thanks
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Hi all, I'm getting bored with props so was wondering if you could help me with an electrical matter?
I recently changed every battery on the boat and tidied up the wiring as there were positive and negative cables coming off different batteries within the domestic bank. Just out of interest I have 6 110Ah wet maintenance free Numax leisure batteries. Yes, Ive gone cheap and chearful!
They are charged via a fairly significant 160 amp alternator and I also have an electrolux 3.5kw travel pack which supplies 240v ac to a Mastervolt 100/2000 Inverter/ Charger with MICC remote controller.All works well from a supply point of view but after using the inverter off grid I can never get the MICC to display 100% charge even after going back on grid without manually resetting the amps. The closest I have managed to get is 94% but that is playing with the settings and including 100% charging efficiency which we know is not possible. The more charge/ discharge cycles I do before going back on grid the further out of sync the MICC seems to be. I am confident the batteries are being fully charged, once back on grid, but the MICC doesnt seem to be counting all the amps which are going back into the batteries leaving the MICC percentage display short and minus some amps.
As a side I have never been totally sure whether the charger should be on whilst using travel power or not. Of course the Mastervolt has to be on but I am talking specifically about the charger part of it. It doesnt seem to matter either way but I have decided to leave it off as the alternator does charge the batteries directly anyway as this can be seen from the display on the MICC, amps going in.
When I bought the boat nobody was able to offer advise on how the system should work.
Any advise would be much appreciated.
ps. apologies if the title is misleading. I believe the batteries do achieve 100% charge but the MICC controller displays something less.
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As an engineer I learnt many years ago not to listen to sales hype and to do my own research. I have owned boats for something approaching 50 plus years and I don't remember how many props I have put on boats but through research and some expensive research, buying and being wrong, I have learnt a little. One thing is leave room for the prop to shall we say breath, the 15% gap. If you don't things are not as they should be. The other is the need for the power and rpm to be able to turn the prop at the correct speed to develop its thrust, right engine and gearbox. I never ask for a quote from just one place and if there is a major difference in the size and pitch I ask why. I know that in my experience the prop you have bought has some distinct advantages but it will still be of the same order of size etc as a prop from elsewhere to achieve the required on a given boat. I will be interested to know how it performs on the new gearbox. BTW go gentle when you first go astern with it on the 2:1 gbox it has more thrust astern than most other props.
I didnt and I did. Maybe I should have asked 5 times.
.......tbh although I am also an Engineer and do take an interest in how things work. As previously pointed out I have no wish to become an expert on all things boating or spend my weekends with my head under the bonnet. I bought a boat to spend my weekends cruising the rivers and canals. I have almost sickened myself during my first year of boating because I have spent far too much time with my head in the Haynes book of boating and scouring the internet for information. I was pleased to find this forum, only recently, so I can stop wasting my time and just rely on you guys who are more interested in tinkering, while I'm out there cruising or in the pub! Thanks for the advise but honestly I have no wish to go flying anywhere. I get into enough trouble on the roads. The river is my release and I am more than happy ambling along. I just felt I was lacking some power on the tidal river on occasions so am looking for that little extra just to keep me out of trouble.-
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..... oh and planned marina stop overs with electrical hook up.
........ There were 4 110AGM's in the domestic bank when I bought it, 1 110AGM as a starter battery and 2 110AGM's for the bow thruster. Which I thought was a total waste for the starter and bow thruster applications. Replaced the starter battery with a standard 75Ah starter battery and the 2 bow thruster batteries with 2 75Ah starter batteries and what a difference! Definitely more punch in the bow thrusters despite smaller, cheaper batteries, but better suited to the application. Mind that maybe because the old batteries were past there best. 9 years old and the boat hadnt been used for 2 years so I guess that didnt help.
LEDs interfere with radio
in Boat Equipment
Posted
yeh, the dtv 1000. that's what we've got. but as i say just stuck in the wheelhouse. big metal box so not ideal. good to hear putting yours outside solved the problem.